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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Test drove a couple coupes today, impressions and what to do now?



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      01-02-2013, 05:35 PM   #67
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For 4 years the car has warranty and maintenance. At 5 years, it is also when the maintenance sinks starts to drain. You lose a lot of money the first year in depreciation, but you loose a lot of money on maintenance after 80k miles.

It gets you to your workplace, so it is a depreciating asset that permits you to get a job, in some sense it is the best of your assets, because if you don't have it, you get no revenues.

Ok, just make sure you pay cash for and no big deal. You can say the same thing for the clothes you wear and the food you eat.


I think you don't understand how monetary instruments works, and you should stay clear of them. For most people that actually understand what an APR and an opportunity cost are, it is just fine.


That being said, balloon payment is a big red flag. For the Op: Scratch a lot more on what that means for you, as usually, these types of loans are VERY expensive in the long run.
I totally disagree. 80K is just getting a car broke in. You obviously don't know anything about proper maintenance and buying a good reliable car.


I think you don't understand how to become wealthy. Dealing in debt will not permit you to do so unless you can out earn your stupidity which most people can not do.
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      01-02-2013, 05:39 PM   #68
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I guess I just don't understand. I have about 30k in the bank right now, and an extremely manageable $500 a month car payment. I find this favorable to having, say, 6k in the bank and no payment.

I understand that you disagree, but besides being able to say "I do not owe any money on this thing that I bought. It belongs entirely to me" I fail to see the benefit. If I suddenly needed $20k, I wouldn't have any way of putting my hands on it. With my current arrangement, I am able to do so. I have a strong credit score, am financially secure, and my monthly expenses allow me to contribute heartily to my retirement account and my savings biweekly while also living comfortably. I don't see how I am unable to afford this car.

Leave my cattle out of this
You could be building wealth with that payment money. Think about what that $500/month payment could be in 30 years if you invested it. The numbers are crazy!! This is a free country and people have the right to be wrong and do stupid things.
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      01-02-2013, 07:19 PM   #69
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Technically, a 16 year old with a weekend job could probably afford to cover the monthly lease payments but that doesn't change the fact he would be living beyond his means.

Most financial advisors advocate spending no more than 20% of your annual gross income on a car, so for a $50K car you would need to make about $250K. Makes sense when you think about it, a $50K car just shouldn't be affordable to the average guy.

IMO, too many people are driving cars they can't really afford. I don't see the point in driving a $50K car but living in a rental or having no net worth.

If I were a fresh grad, I'd buy a Honda, drive it until the wheels fall off, and save like crazy for the down payment on a condo.
Depends on the person man. I agree with you about jobs, but some people think differently man. You may care more about a large house than a nice car, but some people would rather have a nice car and a smaller home. I'm still in high school and I buy a 335i, drive it till the wheels fall off, and save for the same down payment on a condo. It all depends on the person. If you want something bad enough, like a house, you'll work for it just as hard as you worked for your car.
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      01-02-2013, 07:27 PM   #70
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50K for a 3 series!? Eff that, I'd get a used 2nd/3rd gen Viper instead.
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      01-02-2013, 07:35 PM   #71
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You could be building wealth with that payment money. Think about what that $500/month payment could be in 30 years if you invested it. The numbers are crazy!! This is a free country and people have the right to be wrong and do stupid things.
You can die rich having lived a shitty life. Very good. The purpose of life is not to accumulate money, it is to have enough money to live the dream. Sometime, to live the dream before you are 50, you have to get some debts, but everything has cost, so you should not have -too much- debt. My thinking is not based on evangelical arguments that "debts are evil", since they are a convenience that has a cost, and that cost may very well be offset by the return you get. It can be in terms of financial amortization, like for buying a house versus renting, owning a small inexpensive car that gets you to work in time. But it can also be in terms of enjoying early in your life luxuries that couldn't have been enjoyed otherwise (or much later). Granted, it is a net cost, but it does have some value to enjoy life, and many people are ok to spend money on having fun, going to the cinema, buying a TV and anything that's fun cost money and prevents you from acquiring "real wealth", whatever that means. You just have to not over indulge, otherwise it gets to decrease future enjoyment (you have to repay you debts AND the interests), and debt collectors are certainly not fun.

I think the op is making a mistake to get that much debt for a luxury when 1. he has no fixed revenues yet, 2. other costs that are more important are piling up (student loans, etc), 3. he cannot afford it, as illustrated by the fact that the loan proposed to him are of predatory nature (balloon loans are very expensive, and there is a significant chance that he will default on it, being left with no car, bad credit history, and having paid still more than the face value of the car). Getting in debt in his situation is probably unwise.

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      01-02-2013, 08:55 PM   #72
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Well sorry i opened this can of worms!

For the record, i have a fixed income. Was just looking for a few opinions and boy did i get them! As i previously stated i am going to buy used, just maybe not a pos used honda for 5000.
I am in position where i will have to attain some debt in order to get a vehicle. I have no equity in the one i have and need to sell it to get a more fuel efficient and less used vehicle so that it will last me a long time. Current vehicle has over 190k. I know debt is the devil, but when you need a ride you need a ride, and as stated sometimes luxuries are worth a cost, which is why i am willing to finance a nicer car. NOT a 50k car at this point, maybe one day.

E46 m3 is a sweet car, just has a pretty hefty maintenance and repair cost.
Ill post up when my poor decision is made.
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      01-02-2013, 10:47 PM   #73
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The shortest path to building real wealth is to be debt free. Your most powerful wealth building tool is your income and the more of that you have available then the more wealth you will build. Pissing money away on new cars is like dropping an atom bomb on most people's personal finances. I agree that buying a new car is OK if you're already a millionaire. Most people think they can afford a car just because they can make a payment but they really can't and will never have any real wealth. Most everyone who drives around in a new luxury car is a poser because they are leasing or financing.

I purchased a used one owner, dealer serviced 2006 330xi with 100K miles on it for $15K cash out the door last January. I've driven it 25K miles and not a single issue. Other than the odometer reading you can't tell its a used car. What a sweet ride! Any repairs it might need in the future will be paid for out of pocket with cash and I'm sure those will be minimal. Look at all that money I saved buying used and my income isn't tied up making payments.
OK you win NOT - people who by a new $50/100K cars on credit are posers and not intelligent people conserving their capital base while someone who buys a $15K, 6 year old 100K mile used BMW that no one can tell is really a used car is not a poser. Do you have any idea how silly that sounds?

Time to leave the thread.
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      01-03-2013, 12:04 AM   #74
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OK you win NOT - people who by a new $50/100K cars on credit are posers and not intelligent people conserving their capital base while someone who buys a $15K, 6 year old 100K mile used BMW that no one can tell is really a used car is not a poser. Do you have any idea how silly that sounds?

Time to leave the thread.

That fact that you can't tell my car is used means it is in great condition. Not that i'm trying to fool people into thinking I purchased it brand new. I actually own my BMW out right and nobody in my family or circle of friends has told me that is silly.

The verbiage "conserving capital base" is loser language for people who deal in debt and think they are smart by financing and leasing. When in fact they are ignorant about what they are actually doing to themselves.
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      01-03-2013, 12:10 AM   #75
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You can die rich having lived a shitty life. Very good. The purpose of life is not to accumulate money, it is to have enough money to live the dream. Sometime, to live the dream before you are 50, you have to get some debts, but everything has cost, so you should not have -too much- debt. My thinking is not based on evangelical arguments that "debts are evil", since they are a convenience that has a cost, and that cost may very well be offset by the return you get. It can be in terms of financial amortization, like for buying a house versus renting, owning a small inexpensive car that gets you to work in time. But it can also be in terms of enjoying early in your life luxuries that couldn't have been enjoyed otherwise (or much later). Granted, it is a net cost, but it does have some value to enjoy life, and many people are ok to spend money on having fun, going to the cinema, buying a TV and anything that's fun cost money and prevents you from acquiring "real wealth", whatever that means. You just have to not over indulge, otherwise it gets to decrease future enjoyment (you have to repay you debts AND the interests), and debt collectors are certainly not fun.

I think the op is making a mistake to get that much debt for a luxury when 1. he has no fixed revenues yet, 2. other costs that are more important are piling up (student loans, etc), 3. he cannot afford it, as illustrated by the fact that the loan proposed to him are of predatory nature (balloon loans are very expensive, and there is a significant chance that he will default on it, being left with no car, bad credit history, and having paid still more than the face value of the car). Getting in debt in his situation is probably unwise.

Again...more loser language. Sounds like you need "stuff" to be happy right now. So you're going to get a bunch of stuff and be in a bunch debt and then be even more miserable. Stuff doesn't make you happy but that's a whole other topic.

And don't lump going to the movies or buying a TV in with purchasing a big ticket item like a car. Cars are the second most expensive item people buy besides their house. That's why it is so bad on personal finances to finance or lease them.

You guys probably don't want to hear what I think about mortgages I'm sure.
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      01-03-2013, 02:15 PM   #76
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The verbiage "conserving capital base" is loser language for people who deal in debt and think they are smart by financing and leasing. When in fact they are ignorant about what they are actually doing to themselves.
Interesting statement coming from a guy with a $15K used car to one who can afford $750 per hour to fly aerobatics. Please give me a break on your "building wealth" nonsense. With you narrow world view you will never get there.

In the “live debt free world” the only guy building wealth is the one on the infomercials selling the CD’s to the gullible. Ever wonder where he financed the commercial & his company?
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      01-03-2013, 03:32 PM   #77
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You guys probably don't want to hear what I think about mortgages I'm sure.
Oh man, I don't want to hear what you think about most things. I'm sorry but you sound like one of the lamest and most annoying people in the world. No I'm not saying it's cool to be in debt or to live above one's means (but you will likely think/say that since you are so single-minded). People have already stated that they understand your point -- what you are saying is fact, and I don't think most rational people will disagree with that. Yet you continue to annoyingly spew the same diatribe over and over again.

If you understood people at all you might realize that life for many people is not about being perfect and acting only in the most logical and robotic manner possible. It is possible for people to strike a balance in their lives between enjoying some of the opportunities afforded to them by living in a country with a credit system and also being frugal and saving their money in order to provide for their kids or whatever it is that floats their boat. If you don't agree with that then that is fine, but repeating yourself over and over again won't help anybody, especially not the OP.
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      01-03-2013, 03:34 PM   #78
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Enough already boys. If any of us were truly interested in building wealth through minimizing our transportation expenses we would all be driving used Corollas, not BMWs which are expensive new or used. Frankly, I would rather walk than drive a Corolla.

My BMW makes me happy every time I get in it. Or look at it for that matter. Or kick back and think about the three weeks in Europe I spent with great friends in amazing places while taking delivery of it. Well worth the price of entry. And at .9% I would have had to be stupid NOT to finance it.

Debt is a useful tool, but by all means minimize the amount of interest paid.
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      01-03-2013, 03:53 PM   #79
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Well sorry i opened this can of worms!

For the record, i have a fixed income. Was just looking for a few opinions and boy did i get them! As i previously stated i am going to buy used, just maybe not a pos used honda for 5000.
I am in position where i will have to attain some debt in order to get a vehicle. I have no equity in the one i have and need to sell it to get a more fuel efficient and less used vehicle so that it will last me a long time. Current vehicle has over 190k. I know debt is the devil, but when you need a ride you need a ride, and as stated sometimes luxuries are worth a cost, which is why i am willing to finance a nicer car. NOT a 50k car at this point, maybe one day.

E46 m3 is a sweet car, just has a pretty hefty maintenance and repair cost.
Ill post up when my poor decision is made.
That's sound reasoning, good luck! I too agree with the earlier posters about how a new e92 doesn't really make sense now as the newer f32 is just around the corner. And if you in the market for a new one, look in to the euro delivery... you can save quite bit plus get an awesome trip out of it.

As for the original thread topic...

Move over, because building wealth and expert financial advice is coming through.
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      01-03-2013, 04:46 PM   #80
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Well sorry i opened this can of worms!

For the record, i have a fixed income. Was just looking for a few opinions and boy did i get them! As i previously stated i am going to buy used, just maybe not a pos used honda for 5000.
I am in position where i will have to attain some debt in order to get a vehicle. I have no equity in the one i have and need to sell it to get a more fuel efficient and less used vehicle so that it will last me a long time. Current vehicle has over 190k. I know debt is the devil, but when you need a ride you need a ride, and as stated sometimes luxuries are worth a cost, which is why i am willing to finance a nicer car. NOT a 50k car at this point, maybe one day.

E46 m3 is a sweet car, just has a pretty hefty maintenance and repair cost.
Ill post up when my poor decision is made.

Do what you want man you are old enough to decide, you did not ask for financial advice yet you are getting a lesson. The house is the worst investment you can make!! Thousands go down the crap shoot and you don't even know where it goes and nobody notices. Aske me how I know? Example: lawn maint, plumbing, utilities, you name it. And then the values crash 50% due to crooks and handicapped Govt.

Get the car you want and load pu$$y every day all day long!! You'll enjoy every second. What is the value of that!? Or would you rather be in Home Depot buying crap??

Once you get to be 60+ buy a house, watch TV and drink bear in your lazy boy like 99% of society. Until then pedal to the metal and hit it hard!!
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      01-03-2013, 04:52 PM   #81
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Enough already boys. If any of us were truly interested in building wealth through minimizing our transportation expenses we would all be driving used Corollas, not BMWs which are expensive new or used. Frankly, I would rather walk than drive a Corolla.

My BMW makes me happy every time I get in it. Or look at it for that matter. Or kick back and think about the three weeks in Europe I spent with great friends in amazing places while taking delivery of it. Well worth the price of entry. And at .9% I would have had to be stupid NOT to finance it.

Debt is a useful tool, but by all means minimize the amount of interest paid.

At least somebody gets it here!!
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      01-03-2013, 07:44 PM   #82
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Interesting statement coming from a guy with a $15K used car to one who can afford $750 per hour to fly aerobatics. Please give me a break on your "building wealth" nonsense. With you narrow world view you will never get there.

In the “live debt free world” the only guy building wealth is the one on the infomercials selling the CD’s to the gullible. Ever wonder where he financed the commercial & his company?
Sorry but I've never seen that infomercial and have not purchased any materials about living debt free. Btw, if you want to have a "who's dick is bigger" contest then just throw it out there. How many hours do you fly? 1 or 10000? There's a big difference jerk off. I have not bragged about my wealth in these posts but go ahead and go there if you are inclined. The truth is truth and fact is fact regarding wealth building. Some people do it and some people don't.

It makes me sick to see so many people hurt themselves buying shit they can't afford with money they don't have. And some how they rationalize it to themselves that its ok, or its sold to them in that regard and they are too ignorant to even realize it.
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      01-03-2013, 10:14 PM   #83
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Well sorry i opened this can of worms!

For the record, i have a fixed income. Was just looking for a few opinions and boy did i get them! As i previously stated i am going to buy used, just maybe not a pos used honda for 5000.
I am in position where i will have to attain some debt in order to get a vehicle. I have no equity in the one i have and need to sell it to get a more fuel efficient and less used vehicle so that it will last me a long time. Current vehicle has over 190k. I know debt is the devil, but when you need a ride you need a ride, and as stated sometimes luxuries are worth a cost, which is why i am willing to finance a nicer car. NOT a 50k car at this point, maybe one day.

E46 m3 is a sweet car, just has a pretty hefty maintenance and repair cost.
Ill post up when my poor decision is made.
You have a great attitude and seem to know what makes sense.. You have opinions from the people here but unfortunately they're only opinions! You alone know what's the right thing for you, so take a break from this thread and do whatever's the best for you. Good luck, and be sure to post pics later..!
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      01-03-2013, 10:16 PM   #84
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Sorry but I've never seen that infomercial and have not purchased any materials about living debt free. Btw, if you want to have a "who's dick is bigger" contest then just throw it out there. How many hours do you fly? 1 or 10000? There's a big difference jerk off. I have not bragged about my wealth in these posts but go ahead and go there if you are inclined. The truth is truth and fact is fact regarding wealth building. Some people do it and some people don't.

It makes me sick to see so many people hurt themselves buying shit they can't afford with money they don't have. And some how they rationalize it to themselves that its ok, or its sold to them in that regard and they are too ignorant to even realize it.
You take ignorance to another level my friend.
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      01-03-2013, 11:12 PM   #85
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Sorry but I've never seen that infomercial and have not purchased any materials about living debt free. Btw, if you want to have a "who's dick is bigger" contest then just throw it out there. How many hours do you fly? 1 or 10000? There's a big difference jerk off. I have not bragged about my wealth in these posts but go ahead and go there if you are inclined. The truth is truth and fact is fact regarding wealth building. Some people do it and some people don't.

It makes me sick to see so many people hurt themselves buying shit they can't afford with money they don't have. And some how they rationalize it to themselves that its ok, or its sold to them in that regard and they are too ignorant to even realize it.
So now you are reduced to name calling That being said depending on what else is going on I average 4/5 hours a month. 3 hours is pretty much the bare minimum to stay proficient & my target is 50 hours a year.

You keep telling us how to live our lives to build wealth on your terms so I thought you would be just rolling in money. You are so adamant & dogmatic about it anyone would rightly think it was from very successful actual experience. Instead you are trying to find fault with what I can enjoy from what I have accomplished in my life without imposing a draconian way of life on my family or myself so it looks to me like your world is just a fail.

In my personal experience if someone does not hamstring themselves with a lot of nonsensical ridged plans & is willing to work as much as it takes, also take a risk when its prudent they can go from the housing projects in Jersey City to a comfortable way of life that gives their kids a jump start into their futures with an education at a good school.

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      01-03-2013, 11:57 PM   #86
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So now you are reduced to name calling That being said depending on what else is going on I average 4/5 hours a month. 3 hours is pretty much the bare minimum to stay proficient & my target is 50 hours a year.

You keep telling us how to live our lives to build wealth on your terms so I thought you would be just rolling in money. You are so adamant & dogmatic about it anyone would rightly think it was from very successful actual experience. Instead you are trying to find fault with what I can enjoy from what I have accomplished without imposing a draconian way of life on my family or myself so it looks to me like your world is just a fail.
How are you concluding that I'm not rolling in it? You're the one who compared your cost of flight time against my paid for car. You were implying that you won't listen to me because somehow you're better off because my car was $15K and your flight time is $750. Obviously you are old and have made and SAVED money which enables you to live however you want. That is great!


My wife and I are in our mid thirties and own everything we have out right with no debt. House, cars, boat, motorcycle...everything. And we did it because we saved our money and made payments to nobody. Instead we pay into our retirement accounts and will be millionaires because of it. My family is financially well off and debt free with everything we want in life. How is that draconian? We sacrificed to win. So if our world is a fail then I wish failure for everyone.

Btw, I always wanted to be a pilot. I bet it is a great time up there in the air.
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      01-03-2013, 11:59 PM   #87
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You take ignorance to another level my friend.
Oh please enlighten me......
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      01-04-2013, 01:22 AM   #88
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NC - USA

Posts: 2,211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobsed View Post
How are you concluding that I'm not rolling in it? You're the one who compared your cost of flight time against my paid for car. You were implying that you won't listen to me because somehow you're better off because my car was $15K and your flight time is $750. Obviously you are old and have made and SAVED money which enables you to live however you want. That is great!


My wife and I are in our mid thirties and own everything we have out right with no debt. House, cars, boat, motorcycle...everything. And we did it because we saved our money and made payments to nobody. Instead we pay into our retirement accounts and will be millionaires because of it. My family is financially well off and debt free with everything we want in life. How is that draconian? We sacrificed to win. So if our world is a fail then I wish failure for everyone.

Btw, I always wanted to be a pilot. I bet it is a great time up there in the air.
People with your outlook on life tend to live cheap, buy cheap & make due with second hand (the sacrafice part?) so there is no way I would ever swap with you for how I was living at 35.

You said the sweet spot on buying a car IIRC is 5 years old so I just can't imagine you buying anything new or anything costly.

Having a boat, cars, house, bike might sound impressive to some people at first glance but possiably not so much if they are all like your 100K mile 6 year old used BMW.

I do boats & bikes too, show me yours & I will show you mine
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Kevin

2014 435M-Sport MPPK - 2013 135is Cab 6MT - 2009 V-Star - 2009 Ford Expedition EL 4X4 - 2003 Xterra 4X4 - 1998 Ranger 4X4 - FFR Cobra MK-IV work in progress
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