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      07-29-2007, 03:24 PM   #1
ArmyBimmerDude
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PROcede install

Anyone here wanna help me put it in?

I'll drive to your location for the install and we can talk about compensation. I'm not the most mechanically inclined guy in the world, so it would be cool if someone with one could help me out. Thanks
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      07-29-2007, 03:39 PM   #2
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A-B-D...you're going to be scary fast on the Autobahn! good luck with the install.
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      07-30-2007, 01:51 AM   #3
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A-B-D...you're going to be scary fast on the Autobahn! good luck with the install.
Thanks bro. Hopefully someone can help me out.
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      08-01-2007, 08:23 AM   #4
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Oh damn gettin' a PROcede, let me know what you think.
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      08-02-2007, 03:46 AM   #5
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Oh damn gettin' a PROcede, let me know what you think.
Already have it. I guess I'll just have to install it myself. Wish me luck.
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      08-17-2007, 01:34 AM   #6
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Can you tell me how did you order PROcede? How much did you pay and how long was delivery?
I want to order it too, but I`m afraid that nobody can instal it in my town.
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      08-18-2007, 05:02 AM   #7
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I ordered it from the Vishnu website in December and received it in March I believe. It costs $1300 and as far as installing, you can do that yourself. I just dont have a OBD II Code reader, so if I install this thing, I'm not sure what the outcome will be. Can I get a reader from somewhere else?
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      08-18-2007, 02:08 PM   #8
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Can someone help me understand what PROcede is and what does it do? Maybe a site or a link? pls?
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      08-19-2007, 08:54 AM   #9
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Here you go:

http://www.vishnutuning.com/bmw_335i.htm
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      08-20-2007, 08:29 AM   #10
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Well I put it in. Took about a hour and no issues at all. The Procede is awesome, if someone has a 335, definitely go for this.
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      08-20-2007, 01:29 PM   #11
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thank you
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      08-24-2007, 04:53 PM   #12
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Well I put it in. Took about a hour and no issues at all. The Procede is awesome, if someone has a 335, definitely go for this.
Since you are located in Germany: Did you get TÜV approval for the Procede? I posed a question about german regulations to Vishnu Tuning after having read most of the threads here about the piggybacks like JB, TurboTuner, Xede and Procede, but they have no experience with that.

Many of the german tuners claiming support for the 335i may in fact be a bit early with their announcements. Most of them usually do this by reflashing the ECU and according to someone I believe, this cannot be done reliably as of yet (apart from Alpina who have internal BMW information available).

I would prefer that way because tricking out the ECU could do harm in many ways. For example: normally, if tuners are able to modify the maps, they can also lift the speed limit, but nobody can do that for the 335i, either. Any experiments with that came up with entering limp mode, because the ECU knew that the speed delivered was not the one that should be measurable according to RPM and selected gear. Maybe this is not so apparent when you never (or almost never) go faster than 55 mph, on german autobahns, it is. Having read about detonation and limp modes from people taking tuned 335is to the race track makes me think twice about risking a brand-new $85k car (yes, it's more expensive here in Germany)!

I also doubt that one would get an approval by TÜV with the piggybacks because of emission regulations and richer AFR (leaner would not be good for other reasons).

However, what I don't understand is, that in some states (most notably CA), you have even higher standards for emission regulations than over here. Is chiptuning legal in the U.S. or do you guys just ignore legislation?

Here in Germany, you loose the permit to use a modifed car if it is not approved by the TÜV and thus you have no insurance any more, besides warranty issues.

I hope you either passed TÜV or only use the Procede off-road, since you deliberately showed your german license plate in other posts...
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      08-25-2007, 11:15 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
Since you are located in Germany: Did you get TÜV approval for the Procede? I posed a question about german regulations to Vishnu Tuning after having read most of the threads here about the piggybacks like JB, TurboTuner, Xede and Procede, but they have no experience with that.

Many of the german tuners claiming support for the 335i may in fact be a bit early with their announcements. Most of them usually do this by reflashing the ECU and according to someone I believe, this cannot be done reliably as of yet (apart from Alpina who have internal BMW information available).

I would prefer that way because tricking out the ECU could do harm in many ways. For example: normally, if tuners are able to modify the maps, they can also lift the speed limit, but nobody can do that for the 335i, either. Any experiments with that came up with entering limp mode, because the ECU knew that the speed delivered was not the one that should be measurable according to RPM and selected gear. Maybe this is not so apparent when you never (or almost never) go faster than 55 mph, on german autobahns, it is. Having read about detonation and limp modes from people taking tuned 335is to the race track makes me think twice about risking a brand-new $85k car (yes, it's more expensive here in Germany)!

I also doubt that one would get an approval by TÜV with the piggybacks because of emission regulations and richer AFR (leaner would not be good for other reasons).

However, what I don't understand is, that in some states (most notably CA), you have even higher standards for emission regulations than over here. Is chiptuning legal in the U.S. or do you guys just ignore legislation?

Here in Germany, you loose the permit to use a modifed car if it is not approved by the TÜV and thus you have no insurance any more, besides warranty issues.

I hope you either passed TÜV or only use the Procede off-road, since you deliberately showed your german license plate in other posts...

Yes I know how much a 335 costs for germans, I've lived here for a long time. As far as getting approved by TUV, american soldiers don't exactly register our vehicles thru the german system, so we never have to go thru any TUV inspections. We do have yearly inspections, but they are more for common safety deficiencies. Lastly in response to the license plate statement, do you really think all of deutschland is going to come after me because I "chipped" my car when there are thousands of other chipped audi's, vw's, bmw's, etc?

You should read more about the performance products like the Procede, Xede, turbo tuner. There are several members on this post with these in their cars and I have yet to see a thread titled "Oh F*#k!!! I just blew my car up!!!"

If it wasnt safe, I wouldnt have put it in my car. Simple. An ECU flashing is not an option unless you want to trade your warranty for it.
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      08-25-2007, 01:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
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As far as getting approved by TUV, american soldiers don't exactly register our vehicles thru the german system, so we never have to go thru any TUV inspections.

We do have yearly inspections, but they are more for common safety deficiencies.
Yup, those tests do not have neccessarily to be performed by TÜV, but trough several approved institutions like DEKRA and the like. But you seem to be referring to the regular inspections for safety, not those ones your car has to undergo in case you modify it. Just read StVzO §19:

"(2) Die Betriebserlaubnis des Fahrzeugs bleibt, wenn sie nicht ausdrücklich entzogen wird, bis zu seiner endgültigen Außerbetriebsetzung wirksam. Sie erlischt, wenn Änderungen vorgenommen werden, durch die

1. die in der Betriebserlaubnis genehmigte Fahrzeugart geändert wird,
2. eine Gefährdung von Verkehrsteilnehmern zu erwarten ist oder
3. das Abgas- oder Geräuschverhalten verschlechtert wird."

You have a german license plate, so I believe, german law applies. According to that, any modification to relevant parts of the car either must be covered by a general approval (like an E-number or ECE-number) or have to be presented at TÜV for approval. Otherwise, the permit is invalidated. With all of the implications I mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Lastly in response to the license plate statement, do you really think all of deutschland is going to come after me because I "chipped" my car when there are thousands of other chipped audi's, vw's, bmw's, etc?
In Germany? I truly doubt that. I know of some people who do this, but they will likely be getting serious problems when they are caught or if something happens. Rest assured: if a casualty occurs with a high enough volume, insurers will by any means try to waive the cost for that.

The police will more likely inspect cars that are a tad older than yours where they can assume that something has been done, like rims, tires and such things. And - yes, even rims and tires have to be allowed for your car.
As do even light bulbs for running lights. No way to go for "super white" ones here. I think that's paranoid, but that's just how the story goes...

I had a friend whose car had been lowered, so it could be seen that the car had been tuned. The police saw him, inspected the car and noticed that his tire size was not right. The penalty for this is hard, since you have no insurance any more and pose a real threat to others. And any of these offenses is considered deliberate (chip tuning doesn't "just happen"), so penalties double.

Last edited by meyergru; 08-25-2007 at 03:32 PM.
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      08-26-2007, 12:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
You have a german license plate, so I believe, german law applies. According to that, any modification to relevant parts of the car either must be covered by a general approval (like an E-number or ECE-number) or have to be presented at TÜV for approval. Otherwise, the permit is invalidated. With all of the implications I mentioned.
The license plates that are issued to soldiers here are strictly for americans. Germans cannot be issued ones starting with AD or HK. I believe they are now issuing out ones belonging to the city they reside in.

With this whole TUV thing, I have yet to hear ONE american get in trouble for modifying their vehicle. There's a modified Evo, Sti, SRT-4's, Skylines on the post I work at and none have any issues. Again, WE(americans) so not have to follow those same strict laws that you(europeans) do. More than likely that was discussed by our governments and we were given a bye on that.

I know all to well how difficult TUV inspections are and registering modded cars. I had a friend that decided he wanted to live in german after the army. He had to switch his registration to the german government and they told him he would have to pay around $10,000 in order to get it done because of all the things he did with his vehicle. It was simpler for him to just sell the car.

Yes we live in your country, but Americans are protected from a lot of things you are not. Just like americans paying $20,000 less for a car made in your country. Thats just the way it is. Sorry. I could never live in germany. So many stupid laws and taxes.
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      08-26-2007, 10:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
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The license plates that are issued to soldiers here are strictly for americans. Germans cannot be issued ones starting with AD or HK. I believe they are now issuing out ones belonging to the city they reside in.
So it's a special thing, just like Bundeswehr and such. Maybe they have only done that to get rid of the american plates that once were in use. I know that they had also american insurance back then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Yes we live in your country, but Americans are protected from a lot of things you are not. Just like americans paying $20,000 less for a car made in your country. Thats just the way it is. Sorry. I could never live in germany. So many stupid laws and taxes.
I know why you pay less. It's just taxes, basically. I could have done ED myself via an american friend. But if you are not in the armed forces, you have to pay tax if you don't export the car. So, they prices quoted in the USA normally are without sales tax, which in some states is much as high as it is here (19%). After all, I don't pay that, as the car is used for my business.

I could give you plenty of examples of stupid laws in both countries

Whatever, beside the question of your special case being located here in Germany, what I don't understand is: If US emission laws are so strict as ever quoted, why can everybody tune their cars and thus render those laws useless in the USA? I heard that for a few years, american makers could not even produce any big block V8s for emission reasons.
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      08-26-2007, 10:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
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So it's a special thing, just like Bundeswehr and such. Maybe they have only done that to get rid of the american plates that once were in use. I know that they had also american insurance back then.



I know why you pay less. It's just taxes, basically. I could have done ED myself via an american friend. But if you are not in the armed forces, you have to pay tax if you don't export the car. So, they prices quoted in the USA normally are without sales tax, which in some states is much as high as it is here (19%). After all, I don't pay that, as the car is used for my business.

I could give you plenty of examples of stupid laws in both countries

Whatever, beside the question of your special case being located here in Germany, what I don't understand is: If US emission laws are so strict as ever quoted, why can everybody tune their cars and thus render those laws useless in the USA? I heard that for a few years, american makers could not even produce any big block V8s for emission reasons.
Not sure what special things the german army gets, but the reason we pay less is because the price was already negotiated and set. We cant haggle with dealers over here over the price, it is what it is. All we really can do is ask for extras for free. What state has a sales tax as high as 19%? I know california and texas have around 10%.

The most strict state as far as emissions go is california because the pollution is ridiculous. Everything you talked about with TUV it is comparable there I guess. I've lived in florida and hawaii and it was basicially the same there as it is now for me. Simple checks and you're good to go.
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      08-26-2007, 10:59 PM   #18
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Chiptuning is not exactly legal in US either.

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Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
So it's a special thing, just like Bundeswehr and such. Maybe they have only done that to get rid of the american plates that once were in use. I know that they had also american insurance back then.



I know why you pay less. It's just taxes, basically. I could have done ED myself via an american friend. But if you are not in the armed forces, you have to pay tax if you don't export the car. So, they prices quoted in the USA normally are without sales tax, which in some states is much as high as it is here (19%). After all, I don't pay that, as the car is used for my business.

I could give you plenty of examples of stupid laws in both countries

Whatever, beside the question of your special case being located here in Germany, what I don't understand is: If US emission laws are so strict as ever quoted, why can everybody tune their cars and thus render those laws useless in the USA? I heard that for a few years, american makers could not even produce any big block V8s for emission reasons.
OK incase you have never heard of "rolling smog stations" they are real. Yes in California. Ask guys with Evos how many times a suspicious cop stops them and sends them to a "ref" station. You better not get caught. I also used to live in NJ. they'd set up traps in cities known to have a habit of modding the cars and flouting rules, the penalties are severe. If they suspected your car was modded, they'd inspect it. If you have no catalytic converters for example, car impounded on the spot! If your car is polluting over the limit for other reasons not intentional, you get a ticket and are fined. If your car is heavily modded, my friend you are in deep sh1t. But the US is a big place with lots of cars, too many roads and too many ways to get from A to B. If you notice a police road inspection station ahead, you can usually avoid it. If you actually get caught (unless you are in California where its more easier to get nailed.), then you are just unlucky.
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      09-07-2007, 11:02 AM   #19
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Ok guys here we go, just my 2 cents since I have dealt with the American inspections side of the house with my civic that was modified. Americans now fall under German law in regards to modifications on their cars. Technically you must have TUV approval to modify your car, or you can be fined if pulled over. Any modified spoilers, ie your front spoiler need to have the paperwork to back it up, same with oversized wheels, etc. This also applies to window tint now. This is why we can not tint our driver and passenger side windows. I was more than pissed when I went and got my Honda inspected and had to remove the tint. I was also pissed when they told me I needed to remove my bodykit. He also noted that the modified exhaust was too loud. Needless to say I caused a rucus and enough to where he passed my car with the bodykit but not the tint. He also noted it on the inspection sheet that it was illegal therefore covering his butt. Armybimmerdude, I know the standards at each inspection, I especially know they are lacking at Bamberg and Schweinfurt since I reside in these areas, (I'm the one who came to look at your M6 Reps). Just be careful on the mods. This is one of the whole reasons I'm waiting on my mods until I get back to the states in Feb. Going to CA so I know it won't be a problem. Oh, and just in case you're wondering. It does not matter if you have the HK, AD or the new German plates.
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      09-08-2007, 01:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Ok guys here we go, just my 2 cents since I have dealt with the American inspections side of the house with my civic that was modified. Americans now fall under German law in regards to modifications on their cars. Technically you must have TUV approval to modify your car, or you can be fined if pulled over. Any modified spoilers, ie your front spoiler need to have the paperwork to back it up, same with oversized wheels, etc. This also applies to window tint now. This is why we can not tint our driver and passenger side windows. I was more than pissed when I went and got my Honda inspected and had to remove the tint. I was also pissed when they told me I needed to remove my bodykit. He also noted that the modified exhaust was too loud. Needless to say I caused a rucus and enough to where he passed my car with the bodykit but not the tint. He also noted it on the inspection sheet that it was illegal therefore covering his butt. Armybimmerdude, I know the standards at each inspection, I especially know they are lacking at Bamberg and Schweinfurt since I reside in these areas, (I'm the one who came to look at your M6 Reps). Just be careful on the mods. This is one of the whole reasons I'm waiting on my mods until I get back to the states in Feb. Going to CA so I know it won't be a problem. Oh, and just in case you're wondering. It does not matter if you have the HK, AD or the new German plates.
Damn. It seems no matter what bullshit I come up with, I'm going to have to rip the tint off those windows eventually. I guess I'll go a lil darker when I put them back on.

When I had the Supra, the bamberg inspection guy wouldnt pass me because of the exhaust, SO I drove to schweinfurt and that guy did a quick check of everything and passed me. I guess it depends on where you go for your inspection, but it'll take someone more important than them to get me to take the bodykit off.

Thanks for the information. I didnt know that we fell under the german system now.
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      09-08-2007, 05:17 PM   #21
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You can try and work the system. Technically you don't have to get your car inspected until your registration expires, which hopefully you got the two year since it's a new car. If so, you don't have to worry about it for two years, maybe PCS time. But, if the polizei get a little wild hair, they can pull you over and fine your, or simply fine you if you're car is parked and they see it. I'm stuck in Honduras right now so mine is sitting in the garage. I PCS a couple of months after I get back so this really isn't a issue for me. Good luck though.
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      09-24-2007, 06:26 PM   #22
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You can try and work the system. Technically you don't have to get your car inspected until your registration expires, which hopefully you got the two year since it's a new car. If so, you don't have to worry about it for two years, maybe PCS time.
I doubt that (if you refer to Germany). The car is not inspected for technical modifications on the regular TÜV check intervals, just for safety and emissions. If it is a new car, you have to show up after 3 years, afterwards, it's every two years.

Modifications fall into different categories: Parts with an E- or ECE-number have documents (expertises), according to which some have to be presented at TÜV and some do not. Also, some modifications have to be registered in the car's documents after TÜV approval (some minor mods do not have to be registered before anything else has to be recorded in the car's papers, but the TÜV approval or expertise must be at hand in case of a police inspection).

The main concerns approval of tuning modifications are max speed (no problem in case of e piggyback: it's still limited), emissions and noise volume, but also immunity against electrical immisions. The TÜV does not pose any problems if there is an expertise for the part or modification. If there is no such expertise, they have to do some quite expensive tests (sometimes destroying a few specimens, like with tyres).

Since Procede is software-upgradeable, the emission values could theorectically be changed "at will", so a passed test would mean nothing if the user modifies the data afterwards. TÜV Munich told me that for this reason there can be no approval whatsoever for any "field upgradeable" solution like the Procede.

If the modification is risk-relevant in any way, you also have to notify your insurer after getting approval (they might raise rates because of that).
meyergru is offline   Germany
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