E90Post
 


European Auto Source
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Did some digging...F30 chassis vs. E90, based on Tirerack tests, it's a step DOWN.



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-06-2013, 12:57 PM   #1
E46M54325Ci
Lieutenant Colonel
E46M54325Ci's Avatar
27
Rep
1,623
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 Porsche Cayman
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (4)

Did some digging...F30 chassis vs. E90, based on Tirerack tests, it's a step DOWN.

So, in the search for tires for my Cayman, I've been scouring tirerack's tire test result pages. I love reading the results and looking at the charts. I saw that their new test vehicle is the F30 328i, and I remembered that the E92 328i was the old test vehicle. Then after seeing some of the latest test result charts (those with the test car being the F30), I thought, wow these numbers don't look all that great for some of these tires. So I went and dug up a test with two of the same tires (Michelin PSS and Bridgestone S-04) using the e92. What do you? for the majority of the tests, the e92 performs better, quite a bit better. There are a couple spots where it doesn't, especially dry lap time, but I assume that the power and torque of the new car probably puts it over the top here.

Take a look at the tests and see what you think. I realize that it could be the driver and the day and all that, but something tells me that by now tirerack has eliminated lots of those testing errors.

Especially interesting was how the F30 can manage to beat the E92 is some of the dry tests, but not in the wet. The braking and skidpads are glaringly terrible for the F30, especially in the wet.

F30 test: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=162

E92 test: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=148

As always, enjoy!
__________________
987.2 Cayman, Aqua Blue on Black
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2013, 04:02 PM   #2
John 070
Lieutenant General
157
Rep
11,508
Posts

 
Drives: 335i cpe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ZSP/ZPP/ZCW

iTrader: (0)

Doesn't the F30 have stamped steel control arms? That would be a disadvantage as far as unsprung weight....
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2013, 06:03 PM   #3
AndyR83
Major
AndyR83's Avatar
14
Rep
1,025
Posts

 
Drives: E92 335i FBO
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: PA

iTrader: (5)

Didn't all E92's come with sport suspension regardless of sport package?
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2013, 07:53 PM   #4
E46M54325Ci
Lieutenant Colonel
E46M54325Ci's Avatar
27
Rep
1,623
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 Porsche Cayman
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (4)

yes, I believe so. given the video of the testing though, the F30 used was also a sport pack car.
__________________
987.2 Cayman, Aqua Blue on Black
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2013, 09:47 AM   #5
The X Men
Colonel
26
Rep
2,004
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

No surprise there, many agree that the F30 simply do not feel as sporty as the E9X.
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2013, 10:06 AM   #6
DUI Elite
///M at Heart
DUI Elite's Avatar
22
Rep
1,714
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 SGM E90
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
No surprise there, many agree that the F30 simply do not feel as sporty as the E9X.
x2

had one as a loner for a few days and while the acceleration is decently better than the E90's 328 loner, it was sluggish in handling.
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2013, 10:12 AM   #7
The X Men
Colonel
26
Rep
2,004
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 535xi 2013 X3 35i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUI Elite View Post
x2

had one as a loner for a few days and while the acceleration is decently better than the E90's 328 loner, it was sluggish in handling.
Its all about profits, BMW wants to sell more cars to the general population. They want to take away buyers from Lexus and Mercedes by build softer cars that rides more comfortable. At the same time, they offer the sport line version or the adaptive suspension option for buyers who want a sportier car. Its a win win situation for BMW, if one wants a F30 that is as sporty as the E90, they need to spend more money. At the same time, they are gaining buyers who wants a more comfortable ride.
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2013, 10:38 AM   #8
E46M54325Ci
Lieutenant Colonel
E46M54325Ci's Avatar
27
Rep
1,623
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 Porsche Cayman
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Its all about profits, BMW wants to sell more cars to the general population. They want to take away buyers from Lexus and Mercedes by build softer cars that rides more comfortable. At the same time, they offer the sport line version or the adaptive suspension option for buyers who want a sportier car. Its a win win situation for BMW, if one wants a F30 that is as sporty as the E90, they need to spend more money. At the same time, they are gaining buyers who wants a more comfortable ride.
In the beginning yes, but over time I think it could really hurt.
__________________
987.2 Cayman, Aqua Blue on Black
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2013, 10:59 AM   #9
DUI Elite
///M at Heart
DUI Elite's Avatar
22
Rep
1,714
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 SGM E90
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (4)

yeah idk if it'll be a good idea.

it'll be like toyota making pieces of toilet paper for so long that when they make something "normal" like an FR-S, people over hype it and say its "perfect" when in reality, its where engineering should have been in the first place.
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2013, 11:31 AM   #10
eric@h
eric@h's Avatar
United_States
15
Rep
874
Posts

 
Drives: 01 M Coupe, 08 135i, '12 328i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
No surprise there, many agree that the F30 simply do not feel as sporty as the E9X.
After 7 months in a F30, I'd have to qualify this opinion. It is true that the F30 is a big car, and it feels it, but I'm always surprised at how well the car scoots around corners. It pushes less than a E90 in roundabouts (we have the lighter 4 cylinder motor).

That having been said, I am disappointed with the general bloating of the BMW line. Bring me a 3000 lb. M2 with 4 cylinder tubo, 330 whp and low un-sprung weight.
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2013, 12:42 PM   #11
E46M54325Ci
Lieutenant Colonel
E46M54325Ci's Avatar
27
Rep
1,623
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 Porsche Cayman
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (4)

I gave it some thought and I think especially with respect to the tires, BMW has gotten good at engineering the cars for the runflats and the runflats have gotten much better at the same time. Maybe the result is the car is as good if not a little better compared to the previous car on a run-flat vs. run-flat comparison. But take them away, and the true superiority of the previous chassis shines through. Just a thought.
__________________
987.2 Cayman, Aqua Blue on Black
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2013, 05:07 PM   #12
SubzeroVR4
Second Lieutenant
SubzeroVR4's Avatar
5
Rep
208
Posts

 
Drives: Infiniti FX35
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Dayton, Ohio

iTrader: (0)

Had one as a loaner as well, and I felt that the F30 had too much body roll. I was quite dissapointed since it was wearing a BMW badge. Also it kept "stalling" when I'd come to stop and people stared at me when it restarted. lol
__________________
'10 Mercedes C63 AMG
'09 E90 335i Fully Loaded-Sold
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2013, 05:22 PM   #13
edirtaynine
Major General
61
Rep
6,093
Posts

 
Drives: e92
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubzeroVR4 View Post
Had one as a loaner as well, and I felt that the F30 had too much body roll. I was quite dissapointed since it was wearing a BMW badge. Also it kept "stalling" when I'd come to stop and people stared at me when it restarted. lol
start/stop feature. new to the 3-series. not new to the automotive world.
__________________
e90post killed plastidip
Just say no to painted stock wheels

jm3as hooks it up
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2013, 09:59 PM   #14
SubzeroVR4
Second Lieutenant
SubzeroVR4's Avatar
5
Rep
208
Posts

 
Drives: Infiniti FX35
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Dayton, Ohio

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by edirtaynine View Post
start/stop feature. new to the 3-series. not new to the automotive world.
I'm aware of the start/stop and it's functionality. I was being sarcastic because when the car shut off at stop lights and restarted people would look over at me like "Wtf did he just stall his car?" lol

It's not like hybrids where the engine just comes back to life. It's more like a short cranking sound followed by the engine starting. lol
__________________
'10 Mercedes C63 AMG
'09 E90 335i Fully Loaded-Sold
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2013, 12:50 PM   #15
accel
Second Lieutenant
United_States
5
Rep
295
Posts

 
Drives: e90 328i MT ZSP
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci View Post
Take a look at the tests and see what you think. I realize that it could be the driver and the day and all that, but something tells me that by now tirerack has eliminated lots of those testing errors.
Nice find.
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2013, 01:14 PM   #16
accel
Second Lieutenant
United_States
5
Rep
295
Posts

 
Drives: e90 328i MT ZSP
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

I had some extensive f30 335i MT M sport test drive on mountain roads. (Mine is e90 328i MT ZSP)

First, I was not overwhelmed by the turbo engine. I heard it was slower than e90's turbo... Well, don't get me wrong, I definitely felt the car was faster than my N52, no doubts, and that definitely was something nice to have, but not to the point for me to claim my NA engine was very slow. In fact I have to say it made me appreciate my N52 more for being direct and for it's sound. f30's engine is too quiet.

Second, I liked f30's MT and clutch a little more than my transmission. My first impression of f30 pedals was - they were too light. But I adjusted in just a couple of miles. f30's MT is switching easier than e90. Looks like they fixed infamous 1->2nd gear switch issue. Neither I felt f30 had any CDV. Everything worked as it should. I was able to double clutch and even heel&toe very easy, easier than in my e90 where it requires slightly more effort.

Third, - suspension. Even in the sportiest settings the car is softer than e90 ZSP. it was reasonably stiff though. That might be due to different RFT generations though.

Steering... it's definitely lighter than the one in e90, but I didn't feel disconnected from the road. My overall impression was - this new platform has drifted towards comfort zone away from sport zone.

Interior - to each its own, but I like e90 more. f30 is fancier on the inside, but they also lost something...
I do not see much legacy in it. Looks to me as generic as japan luxury car can be.
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2013, 07:28 PM   #17
accel
Second Lieutenant
United_States
5
Rep
295
Posts

 
Drives: e90 328i MT ZSP
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric@helix View Post
After 7 months in a F30, I'd have to qualify this opinion. It is true that the F30 is a big car, and it feels it, but I'm always surprised at how well the car scoots around corners. It pushes less than a E90 in roundabouts (we have the lighter 4 cylinder motor).

That having been said, I am disappointed with the general bloating of the BMW line. Bring me a 3000 lb. M2 with 4 cylinder tubo, 330 whp and low un-sprung weight.
F30 328i might have 4 cyl. engine, but overall it's still heavier than E90 328i according to actual tech. specs. With ~ 50\50% distribution front wheels still have to carry more weight. That being said, if it pushes less, that could be due to some other reasons, like wheel alignment, tires, etc.
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2013, 12:31 AM   #18
NoTempoLimitN54
Second Lieutenant
NoTempoLimitN54's Avatar
United_States
3
Rep
237
Posts

 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci View Post
...I think especially with respect to the tires, BMW has gotten good at engineering the cars for the runflats...But take them away, and the true superiority of the previous chassis shines through. Just a thought.
I think the E9x are engineered for the runflats, maybe not to the same degree as the F30. My E92 335i has more body roll than my E39 with Sport Package and M Sport II rear sway bar. I think BMW went with softer bushings and lighter sway bars to compensate for the runflat's harshness.

That's why you have to switch to go-flats, then start slapping on M3 suspension bits to get to the full potential of the E92 chassis IMHO.
__________________

2009 335i 6MT (E92/N54), Black Sapphire / Shadowline (Individual 760) / Black Dakota Leather, ZSP, ZCW, 6FL, PDC, no Nav/iDrive, 19 x 8.5 / 19 x 9.5 VMR VB3 in Hyper Black, Pilot Super Sport 235/35 fr 265/30 rr, M3 control arms + tension links (fr)
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:56 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST