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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Just another n54 engine build thread



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      01-06-2013, 10:32 AM   #45
boosted5
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Originally Posted by sammy_0559 View Post
the engine should be the same, just move over your injectors coil packs and put new plugs in it. move over the better HPFP starter, i cant really see a major difference between the XI and I. exept transmission i could be wrong

but y u no build?
Decided against it for now, might do it later but probably won't build the internals but rather just go big turbo and call it a day. I did pick up the engine yesterday and it seems to be in pretty good shape, 34k miles and no leaks anywhere as far as I can tell. The only thing that I am certain we have to swap over seems to be turbos,oil pan, injectors and possibly my wiring harness which all can be done rather easy with the engines out of the car. I plan on replacing oil pan gasket and possibly valve cover gasket, anything else you guys recommend before putting this one back in? Hopefully I don't run into anything unexpected but will keep this thread updated regardless. Happy sunday guys
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      01-06-2013, 11:23 AM   #46
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Decided against it for now, might do it later but probably won't build the internals but rather just go big turbo and call it a day. I did pick up the engine yesterday and it seems to be in pretty good shape, 34k miles and no leaks anywhere as far as I can tell. The only thing that I am certain we have to swap over seems to be turbos,oil pan, injectors and possibly my wiring harness which all can be done rather easy with the engines out of the car. I plan on replacing oil pan gasket and possibly valve cover gasket, anything else you guys recommend before putting this one back in? Hopefully I don't run into anything unexpected but will keep this thread updated regardless. Happy sunday guys
I'm telling you from now things tend to get complicated at times. like when i was replacing my turbos a bolt got seized in the engine head. and issues are issues. but get a new Tsat water pump for assurance. its pretty simple i guess for mechanically inclined people. but hopefully all goes well take pics as you go if you can
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      01-06-2013, 12:46 PM   #47
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I plan on replacing oil pan gasket and possibly valve cover gasket, anything else you guys recommend before putting this one back in? Hopefully I don't run into anything unexpected but will keep this thread updated regardless. Happy sunday guys
Compression test on all the cylinders to make sure they're not only holding the proper compression, but also that there is nothing wrong/off with the internals.
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      01-06-2013, 04:02 PM   #48
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How much you must pay for a engine at salvage yard?

Look here , use google chrome internet browser , translates for you.

http://moto.allegro.pl/listing.php/s...pd&string=335i

Maybe I can source one out for you and ship it to you. Prices are LOW!

Maybe just get a M3 while you are at it... with transmission and all the needed hardware
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      01-06-2013, 04:26 PM   #49
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How much you must pay for a engine at salvage yard?

Look here , use google chrome internet browser , translates for you.

http://moto.allegro.pl/listing.php/s...pd&string=335i

Maybe I can source one out for you and ship it to you. Prices are LOW!

Maybe just get a M3 while you are at it... with transmission and all the needed hardware
Wow, those prices are low. Unfortunately I've already picked up one up. The m3 engine would have been a bigger pain to swap into my car than going full out and building my motor. Thank you for posting this though, someone who's looking for a used N54 should def look at these.
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      01-06-2013, 04:47 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by tinnsoldaten View Post
How much you must pay for a engine at salvage yard?

Look here , use google chrome internet browser , translates for you.

http://moto.allegro.pl/listing.php/s...pd&string=335i

Maybe I can source one out for you and ship it to you. Prices are LOW!

Maybe just get a M3 while you are at it... with transmission and all the needed hardware
These are cheap, I got a long block for $1450 and thought I got an awesome deal. Looks like a complete enegine for $1900 in there. Thats a good deal. I might take you up on the offer to ship me one...
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      01-08-2013, 05:07 PM   #51
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Sorry dude, but none of that makes sense, for many reasons. There's no reason a single should flow more air than equivalent twins and there's no reason that a single 'can make it to redline' while twins magically can't.
Well if you actually read my post, you would realize I never stated a single should flow more air than equivalent twins. The natural of twins though is they are generally smaller, but obviously there are 2 of them. They will still run out of air in high RPMs but will spool quicker. A large single will spool slower, but will continue to push more air in higher RPMs due to its larger size. I don't see what is difficult to understand about that. Of course you could put large enough twins and match the potential of a single, by that point the single will cost half as much and perform similarly. This is also assuming you had the extra RPMs to take advantage of. This platform is not revving high enough for it to matter right now.
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      01-08-2013, 05:19 PM   #52
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Well if you actually read my post, you would realize I never stated a single should flow more air than equivalent twins. The natural of twins though is they are generally smaller, but obviously there are 2 of them. They will still run out of air in high RPMs but will spool quicker. A large single will spool slower, but will continue to push more air in higher RPMs due to its larger size. I don't see what is difficult to understand about that. Of course you could put large enough twins and match the potential of a single, by that point the single will cost half as much and perform similarly. This is also assuming you had the extra RPMs to take advantage of. This platform is not revving high enough for it to matter right now.
Bottom line of what he was saying is you are not correct in saying twins will run out of air up top. Which I 100% agree with, your thinking is flawed. You have TWO compressor wheels that will flow as much as a big SINGLE compressor will. You will hit a wall up top based on your turbine A/R and turbine wheel sizing much before your run out of air if you have sized your wheel combo correctly.
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      01-08-2013, 05:33 PM   #53
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Well if you actually read my post, you would realize I never stated a single should flow more air than equivalent twins. The natural of twins though is they are generally smaller, but obviously there are 2 of them. They will still run out of air in high RPMs but will spool quicker. A large single will spool slower, but will continue to push more air in higher RPMs due to its larger size. I don't see what is difficult to understand about that. Of course you could put large enough twins and match the potential of a single, by that point the single will cost half as much and perform similarly. This is also assuming you had the extra RPMs to take advantage of. This platform is not revving high enough for it to matter right now.
not yet Higher rev limits are just becoming necessary thanks to the flow of the big singles. It's one aspect of performance that hasn't been needed until recently. I'm not sure what we'll see in the near future but I'd love to see a 64mm or 67mm turbo with a 7500-7800 rev limit.

There's no reason someone can't put a smaller single turbo on the car to get quick spool and nice top end. So far all of the 6MT guys have opted for the 62mm turbo. I have a feeling the 58mm turbo would be a killer on road courses.
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      01-08-2013, 05:46 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by jdbretz View Post
Well if you actually read my post, you would realize I never stated a single should flow more air than equivalent twins. The natural of twins though is they are generally smaller, but obviously there are 2 of them. They will still run out of air in high RPMs but will spool quicker. A large single will spool slower, but will continue to push more air in higher RPMs due to its larger size. I don't see what is difficult to understand about that. Of course you could put large enough twins and match the potential of a single, by that point the single will cost half as much and perform similarly. This is also assuming you had the extra RPMs to take advantage of. This platform is not revving high enough for it to matter right now.
not yet Higher rev limits are just becoming necessary thanks to the flow of the big singles. It's one aspect of performance that hasn't been needed until recently. I'm not sure what we'll see in the near future but I'd love to see a 64mm or 67mm turbo with a 7500-7800 rev limit.

There's no reason someone can't put a smaller single turbo on the car to get quick spool and nice top end. So far all of the 6MT guys have opted for the 62mm turbo. I have a feeling the 58mm turbo would be a killer on road courses.
You're talking 4mm difference on compressor wheel only, everything else stays the same. Spool difference between the two, negligible. You want to trade off good spool for less top end you start dumping A/R or going smaller turbine housings / wheels. People have a misconception of compressor size having a huge effect on spool. It does not, everyone just thinks it does because compressor size is the most publicized number on a turbocharger. In turn people automatically think smaller number equals faster spool
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      01-08-2013, 10:30 PM   #55
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Bottom line of what he was saying is you are not correct in saying twins will run out of air up top. Which I 100% agree with, your thinking is flawed. You have TWO compressor wheels that will flow as much as a big SINGLE compressor will. You will hit a wall up top based on your turbine A/R and turbine wheel sizing much before your run out of air if you have sized your wheel combo correctly.
Once more a post generalizing about turbos was applied to specific situations. I never said all things being equal the single would flow more air. I know you know turbos much better than I do, but what would be the benefit of twins over a single if the twins took just as long to spool? You are then paying for 2 turbos to accomplish what a single can do, and a simpler set up at that. You choose the turbo(s) based on power goals, and what spool characteristic you would like. There are compromises for each. You give up a little low end power for more peak power, but as far as I know there isn't a turbo out there that will spool at 1500 RPMs like our stock ones and hold power to redline. I bolded the key part of your statement which is the whole basis of what I explained originally.

I am in no way saying the current single is or will be better than the Stage 3 set you are building. I honestly think your twins will be great for this platform. That being said, I have a hypothetical situation I would like to know the answer to if you don't mind helping me better understand this. If the N54 was revving to 8000 RPM, there were no concerns of fueling, and the block would handle it, would the specific twins you are planning on using on your Stage 3 produce as much peak power as a 62mm single in the same car assuming perfect tuning on both? I would guess that twins that spool much quicker than a larger single, would be out of their efficiency range at a high boost/high rpms scenario where as the single would still be doing fine. Is that incorrect? I know you could put larger twins and run the same power to redline so that is not what I am asking. I am asking if twins that spool by 2500 RPMs will run out of air before a larger single that spools at 3200? I am generalizing once more, so if it is possible to answer this question as it is without specifics I would really like to know (not trying to be a dick or anything, I am genuinely curious and would like learn more about turbo configurations) Also I am not in any way trying to turn this into a single vs twins battle, so please don't take it as such. I don't have the money to buy either of them, but I would like to learn more.

Last edited by jdbretz; 01-08-2013 at 10:47 PM.
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