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      01-06-2013, 08:59 AM   #1
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335d swirl flaps and EGR

There has been afew threads and postings recently about swirl flaps and the deterioration of them.

Alittle back ground :

My cars a 2007 335d E92 coupe, built on 24th April
Purchased it with 30,000 miles
Current mileage is circa 112,700 miles
I've had the car 2.5 years

At 30,000, the day of purchase I added my DTUK CRD-t tuning box, returning 340 bhp and 510 lbs/ft

Since purchase I have only ever ran my car on Shell V-Power (99% of the time) with the odd tank of BP Ultimate diesel.

I use my car daily, I drive it fairly hard most of the time, but I maintain it meticulously, either with genuine parts or uprated versions of.
I do a mixture of distance and town driving - the odd long trip, but mainly A roads and about 15 miles of A1, the rest is city and town based driving, the car in winter idles allot as I work out of it and like to keep warm lol

As my car approached 100,000 I became weary about the build up of carbon ect due to age/component wear ect....
I decided to remove my EGR (never been a fan of EGR ever) and my car developed a slight oil leak.

I stripped it down (inlet and EGR) - I found that the swirl flaps, three of them, had weeping oil seals.
I replaced them with swirl flap blanks.

I inspected them on removal - as I expected, the oil seals were causing the oil leak, but I noticed one of them had deterioration on the centre section of the flap.

Below, deteriorated rubber section of flap


Below, all 6 flaps and EGR


Below, flap removal blanks and cleaned inlet


These was a lot of oil and dirt that had accumulated, so it looks like they'd been failing for some time/miles.

I looked at the carbon build up too, I was pleasantly shocked/surprised by what I found !
The carbon build up was minimalistic to say the least !
Having had and run several diesel engined vehicles for afew years and tuned them all, I was expecting carbon and gunge everywhere !

This is what I found:


There is less than 1mm tall of carbon deposits - EGR functioning perfectly and quite clean all round

I can only attribute this to the quality of fuel and keeping the vehicle well maintained.

On a side note, I've never seen a DPF light or had any issues with it, I've recently had it inspected (BMW master tech) and the service light rest for it.
It's functioning faultlessly too - no smoke, clean as a whistle inside the exhaust.

Just a (semi) interesting / informative post .... Maybe ....
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      01-06-2013, 09:11 AM   #2
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Nice, thanks for the pictures! I was wondering what they looked like. The blanks might become popular here in a year or so with more and more going out of warranty.
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      01-06-2013, 09:40 AM   #3
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Interesting stuff.

I thought about an EGR delete but your pic has just convinced me not to. (I also use v Power diesel) according to my tuner its got a lot cleaner burn.

I may look at the swirlflaps though.. Where did you buy your blanks from? Is it a bad job to do?
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      01-06-2013, 10:29 AM   #4
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I went for the egr delete but my car wouldn't tickover without blue smoke coming out of the exhausts. Went like a goodun on full bore with the egr delete part fitted though.

I cleaned my EGR ( looked like new when cleaned) and put it back on and was possibly cleaner than yours was (103k) & I use esso or asda fuel. Dont care about the fuel although I do put that power enhancer through the fuel system every 5k miles which is supposed to remove carbon even when exhauted out which also means it goes through the egr.
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      01-06-2013, 11:06 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilM View Post
Interesting stuff.

I thought about an EGR delete but your pic has just convinced me not to. (I also use v Power diesel) according to my tuner its got a lot cleaner burn.

I may look at the swirlflaps though.. Where did you buy your blanks from? Is it a bad job to do?
Yes, carbon wise they're a clean ish engine.
The other side of the EGR removal is flow, the mechanism inside the pipe restricts flow by around 37%

The effects of removal, even faster spool on the turbos, full boost is archived far sooner and holds better power top end with a stronger (slightly) midrange


The swirl flaps, a simple and easy job, allot of plastic's removal
But it's not a complex job to do

I had my inlet off as I was replacing my glow plugs - so it made sense to preempt the swirl flap thing, and remove them, no harm no foul !

I got the blanks from eBay - 32mm versions


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmylad View Post
I went for the egr delete but my car wouldn't tickover without blue smoke coming out of the exhausts. Went like a goodun on full bore with the egr delete part fitted though.

I cleaned my EGR ( looked like new when cleaned) and put it back on and was possibly cleaner than yours was (103k) & I use esso or asda fuel. Dont care about the fuel although I do put that power enhancer through the fuel system every 5k miles which is supposed to remove carbon even when exhauted out which also means it goes through the egr.
I'm not sue what went arye with your EGR delete - but I've replaced 6 units now, mine being one, 2 x 525d, 1 x 530d and 3 x 335, all very successfully - no negative issues to report.

I remember you saying you'd not blanked off a vacuum pipe with your installation - maybe this attributed to you blue smoke - or maybe it just did a DPF burn that was slightly greater than before, maybe it'd not managed to achieve a full DPF regen for a while - don't know, never looked at your car so I'm just guessing at possibilities

On the flip side, it's a testimont to good fuel and quality adatives - keeps the inside of the internal combustion engine clean and healthy !


O a further side note, I've completely removed the EGR cooler and blanked the plumbing side of it too - frees up a lot of spae and looks neater
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      01-06-2013, 01:01 PM   #6
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Where abouts in Lincolnshire are you? Is the EGR delete something you could help me with?

What delete kit/pipe did you use?
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      01-06-2013, 01:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilM View Post
Where abouts in Lincolnshire are you? Is the EGR delete something you could help me with?

What delete kit/pipe did you use?
I'm in Lincoln, and I'm just off the bypass - 2 minutes away from Lincoln Audi (LN6 3RS)
I'd be happy to help you.

This is the bypass pipe I bought :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-335D-3...item1e74e78c03

PM me if you want me to fit it for you

Tom
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      01-06-2013, 02:11 PM   #8
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Remember that if you remove the egr valve you will always reduce soot production. If the ecu isn't recycling nox back into the combustion this will reduce soot.

Nox burns cooler than air and therefore produces an inefficient burn of the fuel leaving a higher quantity of soot.

The 335d egr implementation is quite relaxed compared to some Japanese diesels. So even with the egr active soot is not as aggressive as some cars. I've seen the egr valves in some Japanese cars absolutly caked in carbon in just 20,000 miles.
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      01-06-2013, 02:41 PM   #9
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Did it throw an engine light when you removed it?

If so did you map it out or just leave it?

Lincoln isn't even an hour from me.. Not bad.


Cheers.
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      01-06-2013, 03:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briers View Post
Remember that if you remove the egr valve you will always reduce soot production. If the ecu isn't recycling nox back into the combustion this will reduce soot.

Nox burns cooler than air and therefore produces an inefficient burn of the fuel leaving a higher quantity of soot.

The 335d egr implementation is quite relaxed compared to some Japanese diesels. So even with the egr active soot is not as aggressive as some cars. I've seen the egr valves in some Japanese cars absolutly caked in carbon in just 20,000 miles.
I know what you're saying, but the combustion temp is higher as it doesn't have the EGR to cool it so the DPF remains able to burn/regen properly.

15,000 miles with the EGR removed and zero issues negatively

I've done several sporadic checks using autologic, and the DPF soot levels have been minimal even after a couple of days of heavy town driving.
It really doesn't cause an issue - and comes with positive benefits too


Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilM View Post
Did it throw an engine light when you removed it?

If so did you map it out or just leave it?

Lincoln isn't even an hour from me.. Not bad.


Cheers.
Nope, not mapped out, simply removed and vacuum plugged

I've not had an engine management light - nothing stored in the ECU either
(Seem times you get code flagged in the ECU without flashing the engine management light)

That's cool - like I say, if you want to do it I'm happy to fit it for you
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      01-07-2013, 08:53 AM   #11
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I thought the 335d didn't have swirl flaps ?
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      01-07-2013, 02:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Si-335d View Post
I thought the 335d didn't have swirl flaps ?
The early pump driven 330d's have no swirl flaps, the common rail 330's do have swirl flaps
All the 35d engines have them
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      01-08-2013, 02:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotNormal View Post
The early pump driven 330d's have no swirl flaps, the common rail 330's do have swirl flaps
All the 35d engines have them
I had it the wrong way round in my head then


Have BMW resolved the issues with swirl flaps in the LCI 335d then ? .........hang on wasn't the issue with "Swirl Pots" ???? maybe I'm even more confused than I thought I was !!!!!
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      01-08-2013, 03:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Si-335d View Post
Have BMW resolved the issues with swirl flaps in the LCI 335d then ? .........hang on wasn't the issue with "Swirl Pots" ???? maybe I'm even more confused than I thought I was !!!!!
It was swirl flaps that had the issue, they use to get injested

The 35d engine, be it pre-LCi or LCi run the modified swirl flaps - they don't suffer from the issue.

I replaced mine for a couple of reasons, two of mine were weeping oil and in my opinion they're not needed, over engineering at its best.
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      01-08-2013, 08:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotNormal View Post
It was swirl flaps that had the issue, they use to get injested

The 35d engine, be it pre-LCi or LCi run the modified swirl flaps - they don't suffer from the issue.

I replaced mine for a couple of reasons, two of mine were weeping oil and in my opinion they're not needed, over engineering at its best.

"Injested flaps" that can't be a good thing.......I'm glad that's nothing for me to worry about then. Thanks for the information / clarification
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      01-15-2013, 04:31 PM   #16
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Really informative thread OP. I'm picking up a pre lci 335D with 35k and did wonder about these issues but i'm happy to stick to v power diesel. But what additives do you use and how often? In my 320D it says no additives...

Also, i also have a DTUK CRD-T which i used on my 320D and im thinking of putting on the 335D. What maps and levels do you normally use?
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      01-15-2013, 05:24 PM   #17
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I really don't think additives are needed at all, as you know it says on the cap no additives.

The egr implementation is not as aggressive as some so you don't get excess soot which is often apparent when people decide to clean the intake and egr valves.

Are you sure your chip is compatible with the 335d?
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      01-15-2013, 05:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
Really informative thread OP. I'm picking up a pre lci 335D with 35k and did wonder about these issues but i'm happy to stick to v power diesel. But what additives do you use and how often? In my 320D it says no additives...

Also, i also have a DTUK CRD-T which i used on my 320D and im thinking of putting on the 335D. What maps and levels do you normally use?
I don't use any additives - never felt or had the need to. The v-power diesel I find is a cleaner burn and keeps the inside of my engine in good all round shap from what I've seen.

If I get chance I'll have a look tomorrow at the map setting, it's been a while since I looked lol
Tbh, I'd try all 4 map settings at +10, give it a couple offals on each map, then see what suits you the best
You may need to have Andrew flash the 35d maps onto your unit btw
Tom
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      01-15-2013, 05:50 PM   #19
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Thanks to both. Guess i won't bother with any additives then

Yes i think i need to return the unit for Andrew to put new software on, plus a new wiring harness. But considering the issues above (incl red hose pipe residue), the box won't cause any damage if left on +10% or +20% will it? I'm in no dire need to do it but its so tempting!

Do you read and delete codes from the DTUK box before any warranty work? Can't BMW find out when hooking it up to their German servers?
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      01-15-2013, 05:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briers View Post
The egr implementation is not as aggressive as some so you don't get excess soot which is often apparent when people decide to clean the intake and egr valves.
Do you think i'm worrying too much as its low mileage, or do you think its a possibility if the previous owner did short trips?
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      04-04-2013, 01:35 AM   #21
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Do you notice any difference after removing the flaps?

I was trying to check mine last week, but really struggled getting the inlet manifold off. Just can't get enough height over the last thred at the bulk head end. Any ideas?
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      04-04-2013, 10:41 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamE90 View Post
Do you notice any difference after removing the flaps?

I was trying to check mine last week, but really struggled getting the inlet manifold off. Just can't get enough height over the last thred at the bulk head end. Any ideas?
Slightly better fuel econ and no oil leak

Get a friend to hold the power cables up and you can just squeeze the manifold out
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