E90Post
 


GT Haus
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > Windscreen defrost heater ? electric



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-17-2013, 07:56 AM   #23
rjwojcik
Private First Class
 
rjwojcik's Avatar
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Essex, UK

Posts: 155
iTrader: (0)

Do you think the heat is supplied by something called:

Description: Auxiliary heater
Part number: 64119175923

Seems to be fitted to mine (according to realoem) but also to the E90.
__________________
2009 135i M Sport Coupe - Le Mans Blue / Black
rjwojcik is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 08:00 AM   #24
xenon
Brigadier General
 
xenon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Coventry

Posts: 4,767
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frobius View Post
I've pm'd the chap over at babybmw about how to code in the fan timer. If your car has the electric heater matrix then it should be possible to defrost the car by timer! Lovely!!
The heater (ordinarily) will not work without the engine on to provide enough current. Is he proposing to disable all the energy-monitoring stuff? Sounds like a recipe for disaster - if it were easy to do then BMW would do it along side the preconditioning timer.
__________________
Ian
Current: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, Professional Media, Visibility Pack, Reversing Camera, DAB
Previous: 2011 F10 520d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
xenon is online now   England
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 08:01 AM   #25
xenon
Brigadier General
 
xenon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Coventry

Posts: 4,767
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
That's how I recall the 330d, never tried it with the engine off.

Wish the 535i had the PTC heater, it is the only negative about the car. Miss the fact the 330d diesel, like your car, would start giving cabin heat almost immediately.

Now when I get to the next village (3-miles) and ECT is about 53 - 55C (similar to the diesel at around freezing temperatures) I'm no where near at the same cabin heating. It is just warm, where the 330d would be pumping out loads of heat and even adjusting the face vent temperature back to cooler levels.

HighlandPete
I'll swap ya!

535i
__________________
Ian
Current: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, Professional Media, Visibility Pack, Reversing Camera, DAB
Previous: 2011 F10 520d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
xenon is online now   England
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 08:24 AM   #26
Frobius
Captain
 
Frobius's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M-Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntingdon, UK

Posts: 976
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon View Post
The heater (ordinarily) will not work without the engine on to provide enough current. Is he proposing to disable all the energy-monitoring stuff? Sounds like a recipe for disaster - if it were easy to do then BMW would do it along side the preconditioning timer.
I have no idea. I assume as with most coding of options it's just a case of telling the car that to enable it. If the electric heater won't work without the engine running then I assume it'll just blow cold air through, needing the diesel heater to create heat - which it won't have.

I guess we'll find out eh!
__________________

57 Sapphire Black E91 330d M-Sport
Privacy Glass // Leather // Heated Seats // Bluetooth // Blacklines // BMWP Gloss Black Grille // Alpine HiFi // LCI Headlights
Frobius is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 08:35 AM   #27
xenon
Brigadier General
 
xenon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Coventry

Posts: 4,767
iTrader: (0)

Perhaps but what I'm saying is as standard you can set the fans to come on at a certain time so if it was not detrimental to also have the electric heater on then BMW would have given the function as it would be very useful. I suspect though that to get any decent heat the heater will need to be 250W if not more, which would draw 20A. On a cold day that would kill the battery pretty quickly so there is a good reason why BMW deny this functionality. You might be able to code it out but is there any point getting to a defrosted car that won't start?
__________________
Ian
Current: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, Professional Media, Visibility Pack, Reversing Camera, DAB
Previous: 2011 F10 520d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
xenon is online now   England
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 08:59 AM   #28
Frobius
Captain
 
Frobius's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M-Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntingdon, UK

Posts: 976
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
I agree. When I first try it, assuming it works, I'm going to have to monitor battery draw.

The timed fan thing is only standard on idrive cars though isn't it? I think this coding might just add this function to non idrive cars?
__________________

57 Sapphire Black E91 330d M-Sport
Privacy Glass // Leather // Heated Seats // Bluetooth // Blacklines // BMWP Gloss Black Grille // Alpine HiFi // LCI Headlights
Frobius is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 09:03 AM   #29
xenon
Brigadier General
 
xenon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Coventry

Posts: 4,767
iTrader: (0)

I had the pre-condition timer on my NON iDrive e92 and it's on my wife's NON iDrive E87 too (I think)
__________________
Ian
Current: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, Professional Media, Visibility Pack, Reversing Camera, DAB
Previous: 2011 F10 520d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
xenon is online now   England
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 09:19 AM   #30
HighlandPete
Brigadier General
 
Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

Posts: 4,462
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon View Post
Perhaps but what I'm saying is as standard you can set the fans to come on at a certain time so if it was not detrimental to also have the electric heater on then BMW would have given the function as it would be very useful. I suspect though that to get any decent heat the heater will need to be 250W if not more, which would draw 20A. On a cold day that would kill the battery pretty quickly so there is a good reason why BMW deny this functionality. You might be able to code it out but is there any point getting to a defrosted car that won't start?
Exactly, with a larger draw than you suggest as well. BMW data states the following for the E87 & E9x models.

Quote:
The only power that is available to the electric auxiliary heater is the excess power from the alternator. The maximum heat output available is 1250 watts. At maximum heat output, the current draw is limited to 74 amperes ( 10%). The electronic circuitry in the electric auxiliary heater automatically adjusts to the respective minimum. (Request of the IHKA and limitation by the DME.)
Even in use the auxiliary element can be switched down, if the current available is not enough. It is like many functions including heated rear demister and heated seats, it is in the list for % function and/or clocking if the power available is too low.

So like you, I can't see any way it can be coded without messing with the energy management bigtime.

HighlandPete
HighlandPete is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 09:20 AM   #31
Frobius
Captain
 
Frobius's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M-Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntingdon, UK

Posts: 976
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Is it the same as the guys talks about on that link? So you end up with a menu called parking, beside BC, info, config, tel on the head unit?
__________________

57 Sapphire Black E91 330d M-Sport
Privacy Glass // Leather // Heated Seats // Bluetooth // Blacklines // BMWP Gloss Black Grille // Alpine HiFi // LCI Headlights
Frobius is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 09:30 AM   #32
xenon
Brigadier General
 
xenon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Coventry

Posts: 4,767
iTrader: (0)

Mine had a picture of a fan - when you selected that you entered the time you wanted the fan to come on.
__________________
Ian
Current: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, Professional Media, Visibility Pack, Reversing Camera, DAB
Previous: 2011 F10 520d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
xenon is online now   England
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 09:33 AM   #33
HighlandPete
Brigadier General
 
Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

Posts: 4,462
iTrader: (0)

I'll add another comment about the amount of heat we need to warm a car.

I've used an electric fan heater (for many years) to thaw out my cars on frosty days.

I run a 2kW heater and it takes about 30 minutes to thaw all windows and put a reasonable amount of warmth in the cabin. That's at around -2C ... in a 3-series touring. It uses a Kilowatt's worth of energy to do the job! Get it any colder and that increases dramatically. 5-series touring takes another 15 minutes to do a similar job as in the 3-series.

So any idea a small amount of battery drain, say 'one chain' in the PTC element will do much good, over a short amount of time, forget it as a serious way to preheat the car.

You can see why BMW doesn't even entertain using the PTC element as a pre-heater. You need the diesel fuelled pre-heater to do a fast job, as they can give out a few kilowatts quite fast. But as said, not an option on the UK 3-series models.

HighlandPete
HighlandPete is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 09:40 AM   #34
HighlandPete
Brigadier General
 
Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

Posts: 4,462
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjwojcik View Post
Do you think the heat is supplied by something called:

Description: Auxiliary heater
Part number: 64119175923

Seems to be fitted to mine (according to realoem) but also to the E90.
Yes that's the part number, it is the PTC heating element, an addition part in the HVAC unit in the diesel models.

HighlandPete
HighlandPete is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 09:44 AM   #35
xenon
Brigadier General
 
xenon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Coventry

Posts: 4,767
iTrader: (0)

But the heater is still useful to demist windows quickly once you have the engine running. It would be unfeasible to expect it to noticeably "warm" the car though.
__________________
Ian
Current: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, Professional Media, Visibility Pack, Reversing Camera, DAB
Previous: 2011 F10 520d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
xenon is online now   England
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 09:56 AM   #36
HighlandPete
Brigadier General
 
Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

Posts: 4,462
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon View Post
But the heater is still useful to demist windows quickly once you have the engine running. It would be unfeasible to expect it to noticeably "warm" the car though.
Agree, but as it does work fast(ish) for the initial demist, I see trying to use a timer for use ahead of the start, is one complex operation for possibly very little gain. Simply on the energy demands being so high. Any system to use it would still need battery protection, so can imagine it not working on the days you need it.

I noted on my 3-series that some winter cold starts there was definitely restrictions on the electrical system, rear screen demister and/or the auxiliary element would be clocked, it was a sign my car needed the battery on a trickle charge. I'm not talking of an old battery either, noticed the function when the car was relatively new. Shows how close we can sail to the wind on electrical demands during the winter months.

HighlandPete
HighlandPete is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 10:00 AM   #37
rjwojcik
Private First Class
 
rjwojcik's Avatar
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Essex, UK

Posts: 155
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Agree, but as it does work fast(ish) for the initial demist, I see trying to use a timer for use ahead of the start, is one complex operation for possibly very little gain. Simply on the energy demands being so high. Any system to use it would still need battery protection, so can imagine it not working on the days you need it.

I noted on my 3-series that some winter cold starts there was definitely restrictions on the electrical system, rear screen demister and/or the auxiliary element would be clocked, it was a sign my car needed the battery on a trickle charge. I'm not talking of an old battery either, noticed the function when the car was relatively new. Shows how close we can sail to the wind on electrical demands during the winter months.

HighlandPete
Going by the previous calculations for energy requirements, I'd now agree that it's very little gain and therefore (to quote Duncan Bannatyne) "I'm out".

Nice discussion, mind.
__________________
2009 135i M Sport Coupe - Le Mans Blue / Black
rjwojcik is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 10:00 AM   #38
xenon
Brigadier General
 
xenon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Coventry

Posts: 4,767
iTrader: (0)

Remote start is the answer - shame it's not legal here. I used to use it in the US when it was cold (or indeed hot, with A/C). Start the engine from inside the house without unlocking the car.
__________________
Ian
Current: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, Professional Media, Visibility Pack, Reversing Camera, DAB
Previous: 2011 F10 520d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
xenon is online now   England
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 01:42 PM   #39
Frobius
Captain
 
Frobius's Avatar
 
Drives: E91 330d M-Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntingdon, UK

Posts: 976
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon View Post
Mine had a picture of a fan - when you selected that you entered the time you wanted the fan to come on.
Ok I've coded it and I get that icon too now along with the option for heater AND blower when I put the time in.

Not sure exactly how it works. I gave it a try and it just seems to blow forward when the time comes. Any idea how to set it up to blow towards the screen? Even if it's not heated, it;s better than nothing I guess. Mind you, the guy over at babybmw reckons it comes through warm. Maybe the car knows that the engine isn't running and just supplies enough juice to the heater to take the chill off? It's pretty smart after all!

I'll find out tomorrow morning I guess.
__________________

57 Sapphire Black E91 330d M-Sport
Privacy Glass // Leather // Heated Seats // Bluetooth // Blacklines // BMWP Gloss Black Grille // Alpine HiFi // LCI Headlights
Frobius is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2013, 06:17 AM   #40
HighlandPete
Brigadier General
 
Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

Posts: 4,462
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon View Post
I'll swap ya!

535i
I missed your comment yesterday.

Off topic, but a brilliant car, best decision I could have made, I'm still amazed at the specification and the price I paid for it. Proven to be faultless so far. Had it 4-months tomorrow.

HighlandPete
HighlandPete is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:05 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST