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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Word to the wise on E85



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      01-17-2013, 09:13 PM   #1
ErvGotti
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Word to the wise on E85

I know allot of members on here have been running E85 with no problems and god knows I love the power of it, but I just had 4 injectors go bad.

Now these injectors only had about 16k miles on them before they went bad. I had them replaced under recall at 14k miles and the went bad at around 30k. Car has been tuned with JB3 and Procede since 10k miles and Cobb at 22k with E85 coming into play at 24k when they released ATR. Running a 40/60 mix. I mostly fill up with Shell 93 or any big name gas station if not available.

The dilemma I was is in with the Cobb was that I would only misfire under tune even the mildest tune. So when I went back to stock it would erase the codes and the car wouldn't misfire under the stock tune. I'm still under warranty.

So I called around to different dealerships around the area and found one that was willing to work on the car with the Cobb still installed. With the multiple misfire codes the first thing they replaced was the plugs (which I thought was the culprit) didn't solve the problem. So the tech did his thing and found that injectors 3, 4 5, and 6 were faulty. He replaced them and now I'm misfire free.

I know I'm gonna be getting the I've been running E85 for yadda yadda trouble free. My SA said that there are different batches of injectors out there, so my word to the wise is this...just be aware that prolonged use could potentially wear out the injectors quicker and this is definitely a costlier fix than plugs or coil packs if you're out of warranty.
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      01-17-2013, 09:15 PM   #2
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I don't think you can justify it was ONLY the E85...... The injectors in n54/n63's are junk.


I WOULD add some Lucas E85 fuel stabilizer to help lubricate that dry stuff. I do, and feel it helps with lubricity.
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      01-17-2013, 09:22 PM   #3
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1. what do you say with people who have injectors go bad who has never used e85.

2. how did you determine e85 was the culprite?

3. you very lucky you found a dealer willing to work with a tuned car.

Last edited by idrift4wd; 01-17-2013 at 09:27 PM.
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      01-17-2013, 09:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigugly View Post
I don't think you can justify it was ONLY the E85...... The injectors in n54/n63's are junk.


I WOULD add some Lucas E85 fuel stabilizer to help lubricate that dry stuff. I do, and feel it helps with lubricity.
Well I forgot to mention in the original post was that they all failed rather abruptly. I'm super anal about my car and would literally log every couple of days usually about three runs. All of the logs were great no signs of incoming failure then bam they went bad.

Was it just the E85 maybe maybe not. The tech, SA, and I discussed it when I picked up the car and the tech seems to think so. He was their master tech and a huge N54/55 fan. He knew all about the beginning tunes JB+, JB2, to the new cobb stuff we have now. They also install Dinan tunes there if that helps any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd View Post
1. what do you say with people who have injectors go bad who has never used e85.

2. how did you determine e85 was the culprite?

3. you very lucky you found a dealer willing to work with a tuned car.
1. My SA said that there are different batches of injectors out there who's stock number is only readable when scanned. He said he's seen injector's that were scanned and according to BMW were a good batch only to see them go bad like 6 months later (this was during the recall). So really with injectors it's a crap shoot. That's why all I'm saying is to be careful with E85 if you can't afford to pay to play.

2. See above reply.

3. Yes and I'm very thankful for it.
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      01-17-2013, 10:08 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErvGotti View Post

Was it just the E85 maybe maybe not. The tech, SA, and I discussed it when I picked up the car and the tech seems to think so. He was their master tech and a huge N54/55 fan. He knew all about the beginning tunes JB+, JB2, to the new cobb stuff we have now. They also install Dinan tunes there if that helps any.
.
No help.

I sure he isn't just the only "master tech" there

I have literally replaced HUNDREDS of direct injectors, believe me they are junk. I did 8 yesterday, and 14 last week.
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      01-17-2013, 10:57 PM   #6
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No help.

I sure he isn't just the only "master tech" there

I have literally replaced HUNDREDS of direct injectors, believe me they are junk. I did 8 yesterday, and 14 last week.
No need to be dismissive. These injectors can be hit or miss as there are also many members here who have over 50k miles tuned without injector problems. Since you know so much about direct injectors, you know that most modern diesel injectors (which are direct injected) are lubricated with oil, not to mention the lubricity of diesel itself.

Our injectors have no such luxury. So when you constantly add E85 to injectors that were meant for gasoline you get an abrupt failure of multiple injectors like I had. I might have had a bad batch, but E85 more than likely speed up the process. Hell even at 20% the many logs on here show the LPFP working over time to keep up the demand. Logic would dictate that if E85 puts a higher demand on one part of the system that other parts are more than likely feeling that same effect.

Like I said my whole point of this thread is to warn those that might not have the cash or warranty to replace multiple injectors that maybe just maybe you have a bad batch of injectors that E85 might accelerate wear.

Last edited by ErvGotti; 01-18-2013 at 07:20 AM.
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      01-18-2013, 02:59 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigugly View Post
I don't think you can justify it was ONLY the E85...... The injectors in n54/n63's are junk.


I WOULD add some Lucas E85 fuel stabilizer to help lubricate that dry stuff. I do, and feel it helps with lubricity.
Really! First I've seen of this. I was thinking of running 50/50 again in the future so I'm willing to try anything that will increase the longevity of our sketchy injectors.
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      01-18-2013, 03:10 AM   #8
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for me the benefits of E85 outweigh the drawback of replacing injectors every 16k miles. Injectors can be had for about $600/set. Even if I keep my car for 4 years, that's maybe $1800 in injectors for 4 years and 400+ WHP... Seems like reasonable gamble to me
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      01-18-2013, 07:07 AM   #9
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There are sources from BMW engineers about running E85, and one of the long-term weak lengths were the filters in the injectors clogging up. Not big news, but 24k miles so far with no issue's other than a LPFP that can't keep up with fuel demands in temps lower than 50F (which is a rarity in central gulf coast FL), knock on wood for me I'm expecting something to creep up sooner or later; we all know our fuel systems weren't designed and tested for anything over at least 25% ethanol content (Brazilian cars).
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      01-18-2013, 07:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joec500 View Post
for me the benefits of E85 outweigh the drawback of replacing injectors every 16k miles. Injectors can be had for about $600/set. Even if I keep my car for 4 years, that's maybe $1800 in injectors for 4 years and 400+ WHP... Seems like reasonable gamble to me
+1, the benefits outweighs the gamble, I love E85 and I won't stop using it
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      01-18-2013, 07:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joec500 View Post
for me the benefits of E85 outweigh the drawback of replacing injectors every 16k miles. Injectors can be had for about $600/set. Even if I keep my car for 4 years, that's maybe $1800 in injectors for 4 years and 400+ WHP... Seems like reasonable gamble to me
I definitely was hooked on it, filling up without it and switching to a different map felt like going back to stock. I'll probably still use it, but not on every fill up. Maybe on track days and friendly runs in "mexico".
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      01-19-2013, 12:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErvGotti View Post
No need to be dismissive. These injectors can be hit or miss as there are also many members here who have over 50k miles tuned without injector problems. Since you know so much about direct injectors, you know that most modern diesel injectors (which are direct injected) are lubricated with oil, not to mention the lubricity of diesel itself.

Our injectors have no such luxury. So when you constantly add E85 to injectors that were meant for gasoline you get an abrupt failure of multiple injectors like I had. I might have had a bad batch, but E85 more than likely speed up the process. Hell even at 20% the many logs on here show the LPFP working over time to keep up the demand. Logic would dictate that if E85 puts a higher demand on one part of the system that other parts are more than likely feeling that same effect.

Like I said my whole point of this thread is to warn those that might not have the cash or warranty to replace multiple injectors that maybe just maybe you have a bad batch of injectors that E85 might accelerate wear.
Gee- the low pressure pump working harder? No kidding? Almost like it has to supply approximately 30-40% more fuel because its e85?
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      01-19-2013, 01:17 AM   #13
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Gee- the low pressure pump working harder? No kidding? Almost like it has to supply approximately 30-40% more fuel because its e85?
Why would you pick out the tiniest reference in my explanation and try to be a know it all I know more than anyone because I changed out thousands of injectors there's no one more knowledgeable than me in this subject.

You don't think that I already knew that the reason it's working 30-40% is because of the E85.

You don't think that E85 is not having any affect on the 2800 PSI injectors designed for gasoline? As I said before if one part in a system is being affected logic stands that other parts in that system are being affected. Please refrain from posting if you have nothing to contribute besides being a know it all with nothing informative to say.

It's so funny how on this forum the question get's brought up time and time again asking if anyone has had trouble with E85 or what not, but as soon as someone might have something there's always someone like you who has to be dismissive and all knowing.
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