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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > LPFP Tech info



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      01-22-2013, 09:34 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ign335i View Post
Why is the pressure dropping? Because there isn't enough flow out of the stock setup. If you are increasing horsepower you are increasing air flow which means you need to increase fuel flow to hit your lambdas. None of this requires you to need more pressure. The pressure is dropping at these flow rates because the stock pump has hit a flow wall.



I think Tony knows the fuel is receiving heat. The point is it is such a miniscule amount that you probably wouldn't even be able to measure a difference in temperature.

Well yeah but aren't you increasing flow to the HPFP? And that system has no return so while you could theoretically increase flow once you hook it up to the car you will only get what the HPFP allows. I mean its great to say you could theoretically flow xyz. But, until you actually hook it up to the car and try it you don't know what it will do.
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      01-22-2013, 10:02 AM   #178
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is there an upgrade for the HPFP? If you could flow enough fuel with a single or dual pump setup, could you bypass the HPFP?
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      01-22-2013, 01:44 PM   #179
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Direct injection requires fuel pressures well over 1500 psi; far beyond the capabilities of any automotive 13V fuel pump that i know of currently.

Short answer is no. Bypassing the HPFP is not an option.
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      01-22-2013, 05:55 PM   #180
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Somewhere in the middle of this thread someone asked if anyone noticed that Shiv edited his numbers and made it look better. I noticed and I got a little laugh out of it. I'm not sure if anyone else understood the humor behind it, so here it is;
In Shiv's original post he rated the Walbro 450 pump a little conservatively to be on the safe side. Apparantly Terry was in a huff over Shiv's post, so Terry promptly corrected Shiv. Shiv edited his post using the numbers that Terry was insisting on, and the results immediately looked better for Shiv +Co! lol

Of course Shiv was a gentleman about it and merely replied,
'OK'

It's in post #7 for those following along.
Quote:
Terry; "As far as I know the Walbro "267" pump is rated @ 355 liters/hr @ 70psi @ 13.5v on paper. 1 liter/hour is 1.63 pounds/hr for gasoline. More for E85 of course. So with no over head it's rated at 578 pounds/hr worth of gasoline."
Shiv; "Ok"

Next point; fuel heating. If you have a pair of pumps that draw high amps they will heat the fuel. How much heating they put out is another topic, it also depends on how many gallons are in the tank since 15 gallons can absorb the heat without raising the temp much. Low fuel levels might see higher temp increase. Luckily gasoline has relatively the same flow characteristics at different temp so it doesn't matter much. OTOH E85 is sensitive to heating and gets less dense as it heats up. I'm at lunch so I can't do a search right now, if anyone is interested just lookup 'temperature-density Ethanol'. It's the reason OEM flex fuel sensors have a temperature sensor built into them. They not only read ethanol content but fuel temp, too.

I'd also like to encourage anyone who's interested in learning about the N54 fuel system to read the following link;
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=512759
There's a lot of good info there. Read the first few pages, there's more info added as the thread goes along. The golden rule for modifying anything is to first understand how it works before you try to make changes.
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      01-22-2013, 09:15 PM   #181
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For the entire vishnu operation to be MIA from the forums isn't a good sign or very professional. I know there are issues with the single turbos but they seem to have forgotten about 99% of their user base which is stock turbo users. As a vishnu consumer, I expect a quality product with a few updates which haven't come in about half a year now even though that was what was promised over time.

Forget about fueling, forget about the single turbo, 95% of users won't need any of these. As these cars get cheaper, younger people are going to buy them and they're more likely to mod but I feel vishnu is going to start losing out on this next generation of n54 modders.

You pay a premium for a product and expect a little better than this.
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      01-22-2013, 10:02 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200
For the entire vishnu operation to be MIA from the forums isn't a good sign or very professional. I know there are issues with the single turbos but they seem to have forgotten about 99% of their user base which is stock turbo users. As a vishnu consumer, I expect a quality product with a few updates which haven't come in about half a year now even though that was what was promised over time.

Forget about fueling, forget about the single turbo, 95% of users won't need any of these. As these cars get cheaper, younger people are going to buy them and they're more likely to mod but I feel vishnu is going to start losing out on this next generation of n54 modders.

You pay a premium for a product and expect a little better than this.
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      01-22-2013, 10:40 PM   #183
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Dave W.

thanks for the link about the fueling system. this car is definitely built different than my 3v...
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      01-23-2013, 06:32 AM   #184
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FFTEC/Vishnu upgrade is the only N54 specific upgrade and full kit available from a vendor. Dudes whining should sell a proven kit themselves at a cheaper price, since currently the only kit is also the cheapest one. FFTEC/Vishnu kit flows a lot better than stock. They have tested the pump in real world and got a competitor to test it in a rig. That is even better than an independent or own testing alone.

It does not make sense for Vishnu to argue with these people who are just jealous and baiting for acquiring more real world information. Rip-off and Duplicate strategy in copying upgraded twins is several months behind the schedule. Based on the whiners' comments and level of N54 fuel system understanding it will take some time before they will have a true upgraded fueling kit to offer, if ever.

For those who want to DIY a fueling upgrade for a stock turbo car and save some money by doing it, I'd suggest either replacing the stock pump with Walbro or a fabbing a kit similar to the FFTEC/Vishnu offering.
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      01-23-2013, 01:48 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
FFTEC/Vishnu upgrade is the only N54 specific upgrade and full kit available from a vendor. Dudes whining should sell a proven kit themselves at a cheaper price, since currently the only kit is also the cheapest one. FFTEC/Vishnu kit flows a lot better than stock. They have tested the pump in real world and got a competitor to test it in a rig. That is even better than an independent or own testing alone.

It does not make sense for Vishnu to argue with these people who are just jealous and baiting for acquiring more real world information. Rip-off and Duplicate strategy in copying upgraded twins is several months behind the schedule. Based on the whiners' comments and level of N54 fuel system understanding it will take some time before they will have a true upgraded fueling kit to offer, if ever.

For those who want to DIY a fueling upgrade for a stock turbo car and save some money by doing it, I'd suggest either replacing the stock pump with Walbro or a fabbing a kit similar to the FFTEC/Vishnu offering.
I think you are missing the entire point. It was said 1000x that the Vishnu pump works, everyone knows that.

What people are complaining about, and rightfully so, is the fact that the pump was touted as the end all be all solution. As the only solution available that works. How all other solutions are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. All this without a single shred of evidence to back up his claims. Thats what people are upset about. And as it turns out the Vishnu pump setup is nowhere near as glamorous at how it was marketed.

It has nothing to do with weather or not the Vishnu pump works or not. It was about him bashing the other solutions and come to find out it was basically BS.

It comes down to intentionally trying to manipulate and mislead the consumer. Thats fine if that is how you want to run your business. But there are and always will be people who are intelligent enough to ask questions and when they do you just might get called the eff out.
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      01-23-2013, 02:33 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
I think you are missing the entire point. It was said 1000x that the Vishnu pump works, everyone knows that.

What people are complaining about, and rightfully so, is the fact that the pump was touted as the end all be all solution. As the only solution available that works. How all other solutions are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. All this without a single shred of evidence to back up his claims. Thats what people are upset about. And as it turns out the Vishnu pump setup is nowhere near as glamorous at how it was marketed.

It has nothing to do with weather or not the Vishnu pump works or not. It was about him bashing the other solutions and come to find out it was basically BS.

It comes down to intentionally trying to manipulate and mislead the consumer. Thats fine if that is how you want to run your business. But there are and always will be people who are intelligent enough to ask questions and when they do you just might get called the eff out.
Umm has any of "Vishnus" claims been in actuallity disproven?

The walbro replacement pump was shown to work in a car for a extended duration right? But you give up some of the factory design elements if you do that.

I am sure that you could simply fab up that pump in series and run that for "less" money but the trade off is time figuring everything out your self (the right size tubing/fittings/eletrical....) As well as testing (your new pump solution will be a one of a kind horray!) .

If you really have the time / find that sort of thing fun or challenging / are flat broke and somehow can't get the extra 300$ you could try that.

As far as parrallel pumps has anyone tried that on thier N54?
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      01-23-2013, 03:07 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
I think you are missing the entire point. It was said 1000x that the Vishnu pump works, everyone knows that.

What people are complaining about, and rightfully so, is the fact that the pump was touted as the end all be all solution. As the only solution available that works. How all other solutions are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. All this without a single shred of evidence to back up his claims. Thats what people are upset about. And as it turns out the Vishnu pump setup is nowhere near as glamorous at how it was marketed.

It has nothing to do with weather or not the Vishnu pump works or not. It was about him bashing the other solutions and come to find out it was basically BS.

It comes down to intentionally trying to manipulate and mislead the consumer. Thats fine if that is how you want to run your business. But there are and always will be people who are intelligent enough to ask questions and when they do you just might get called the eff out.
I'm here to talk LPFP tech talk, so yes, I must have missed the point.

The vendors have been praising their own solutions and bashing the competition for half a decade. You have not seen it since you are new here. A grown up enthusiast should be able to ignore all the marketing and bashing and not get butt hurt.
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      01-23-2013, 03:20 PM   #188
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This whole thing is laughable. For the life of me I cannot figure out why some people cannot simply look at a situation objectively.

The world is a funny place I guess.
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      01-23-2013, 03:33 PM   #189
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We have shipped a fuel tank and bucket assembly to a very reputable company that manufactures drop in fuel pump solutions supporting upwards of 1500 HP on many platforms. They are going to be doing R&D and hopefully making us a real fuel pump solution on the LP side of things. This will be a replacement drop in bucket, which will hold one or two pumps of your choosing based on your HP needs and include all wiring needed to make it work. This is all the info I am going to give at this time. Do the DIY pump solutions work? Darn right they do, does the Vishu pump solution work, it sure does. But as the platform progresses, which it is quickly. It is going to start needing parts manufactured specially for the task of supporting big HP. Hopefully we will be able to offer some of them in the future.
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      01-23-2013, 03:34 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
This whole thing is laughable. For the life of me I cannot figure out why some people cannot simply look at a situation objectively.

The world is a funny place I guess.
+1
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      01-23-2013, 03:36 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
We have shipped a fuel tank and bucket assembly to a very reputable company that manufactures drop in fuel pump solutions supporting upwards of 1500 HP on many platforms. They are going to be doing R&D and hopefully making us a real fuel pump solution on the LP side of things. This will be a replacement drop in bucket, which will hold one or two pumps of your choosing based on your HP needs and include all wiring needed to make it work. This is all the info I am going to give at this time. Do the DIY pump solutions work? Darn right they do, does the Vishu pump solution work, it sure does. But as the platform progresses, which it is quickly. It is going to start needing parts manufactured specially for the task of supporting big HP. Hopefully we will be able to offer some of them in the future.
Nice
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      01-23-2013, 03:55 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
We have shipped a fuel tank and bucket assembly to a very reputable company that manufactures drop in fuel pump solutions supporting upwards of 1500 HP on many platforms. They are going to be doing R&D and hopefully making us a real fuel pump solution on the LP side of things. This will be a replacement drop in bucket, which will hold one or two pumps of your choosing based on your HP needs and include all wiring needed to make it work. This is all the info I am going to give at this time. Do the DIY pump solutions work? Darn right they do, does the Vishu pump solution work, it sure does. But as the platform progresses, which it is quickly. It is going to start needing parts manufactured specially for the task of supporting big HP. Hopefully we will be able to offer some of them in the future.
nice Tony!
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      01-23-2013, 04:46 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
We have shipped a fuel tank and bucket assembly to a very reputable company that manufactures drop in fuel pump solutions supporting upwards of 1500 HP on many platforms. They are going to be doing R&D and hopefully making us a real fuel pump solution on the LP side of things. This will be a replacement drop in bucket, which will hold one or two pumps of your choosing based on your HP needs and include all wiring needed to make it work. This is all the info I am going to give at this time. Do the DIY pump solutions work? Darn right they do, does the Vishu pump solution work, it sure does. But as the platform progresses, which it is quickly. It is going to start needing parts manufactured specially for the task of supporting big HP. Hopefully we will be able to offer some of them in the future.
Awesome. Let people who know what they are doing figure it out. I like it.
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      07-09-2013, 03:43 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
We have shipped a fuel tank and bucket assembly to a very reputable company that manufactures drop in fuel pump solutions supporting upwards of 1500 HP on many platforms. They are going to be doing R&D and hopefully making us a real fuel pump solution on the LP side of things. This will be a replacement drop in bucket, which will hold one or two pumps of your choosing based on your HP needs and include all wiring needed to make it work. This is all the info I am going to give at this time. Do the DIY pump solutions work? Darn right they do, does the Vishu pump solution work, it sure does. But as the platform progresses, which it is quickly. It is going to start needing parts manufactured specially for the task of supporting big HP. Hopefully we will be able to offer some of them in the future.
Any updates on this?
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