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      11-05-2012, 03:36 PM   #1
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*Must watch* CONSERVATISM IS CALLING

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      11-05-2012, 03:53 PM   #2
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5 million fewer women working now than when Obama took office

Doubled the national debt when he said he would cut it in half

46 million people without work

black unemployment at 15%

Average household income decreased by thousands

First time since 1979 an ambassador was murdered (when Carter was President)

750 billion taken from medicare to pay for obamacare
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      01-22-2013, 09:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incantana View Post
5 million fewer women working now than when Obama took office

Doubled the national debt when he said he would cut it in half

46 million people without work

black unemployment at 15%

Average household income decreased by thousands

First time since 1979 an ambassador was murdered (when Carter was President)

750 billion taken from medicare to pay for obamacare
... and yet the American people still said NO to the Republican freak show with it's outdated ideas and it's out of touch representatives. Get a clue republicans, we're just not that into you.
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      01-22-2013, 10:05 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
... and yet the American people still said NO to the Republican freak show with it's outdated ideas and it's out of touch representatives. Get a clue republicans, we're just not that into you.
that may be the case. but these stats are factual. Which ideas are outdated? Are you referring to all the ideas? or just social ideas? or are you also referring to economics? If its the social ideas you are referring to, im going to assume that you're mainly referring to abortion and gay marriage as the main topics. On both of these issues prior to the election, Obama was against Gay marriage and also against late term abortion yet he was elected as a senator and then again in 2008. He has obviously since "evolved" on the issues as has been well covered by the media. I think its fair to say that, while many may disagree with tranditional stances on gar marriage and abortion, it wasnt the downfall of republicans in the election.

so did 51% of America who voted for Obama feel that these numbers as mentioned in your quote do not matter? Did they feel that, yes, this is bad, but the alternative would lead to even worse numbers? Because as these numbers indicate, the economy is not better, its not getting better. unemployment is unchanged since 2008. Now I know that many will say it would have been worse had Obama not been elected but thats just as assertion that is impossible to verify. Whats your take on this?

Id venture to say that America is undergoing a fundamental change. I think we are moving towards a much more liberal european America. I think that the collective has now become more important than the individual and the meaning of "fair" has completely changed to "equal outcome" rather than "equal opportunity." You're right I believe. There are more takers than makers now. There are more people asking what their country can give them rather than what they can do for their country. Success and wealth are now dirty words.
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      01-23-2013, 02:08 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by incantana View Post
that may be the case. but these stats are factual. Which ideas are outdated? Are you referring to all the ideas? or just social ideas? or are you also referring to economics? If its the social ideas you are referring to, im going to assume that you're mainly referring to abortion and gay marriage as the main topics. On both of these issues prior to the election, Obama was against Gay marriage and also against late term abortion yet he was elected as a senator and then again in 2008. He has obviously since "evolved" on the issues as has been well covered by the media. I think its fair to say that, while many may disagree with tranditional stances on gar marriage and abortion, it wasnt the downfall of republicans in the election.

so did 51% of America who voted for Obama feel that these numbers as mentioned in your quote do not matter? Did they feel that, yes, this is bad, but the alternative would lead to even worse numbers? Because as these numbers indicate, the economy is not better, its not getting better. unemployment is unchanged since 2008. Now I know that many will say it would have been worse had Obama not been elected but thats just as assertion that is impossible to verify. Whats your take on this?

Id venture to say that America is undergoing a fundamental change. I think we are moving towards a much more liberal european America. I think that the collective has now become more important than the individual and the meaning of "fair" has completely changed to "equal outcome" rather than "equal opportunity." You're right I believe. There are more takers than makers now. There are more people asking what their country can give them rather than what they can do for their country. Success and wealth are now dirty words.
Actually the economy is better. We're not all the way there yet, but we are getting there, and no thanks to Republicans obstructing all the way. You guys are still fighting old battles. At some point you have to wake up and face it, the country is changing. Actually, no, the country HAS changed.

When has the meaning of "fair" ever really meant fair for everyone? And when has there ever really been equal opportunity for everyone? You seem to have a false nastalgia for a better time in this country that really never was. Don't forget, Jim Crow segregation was not that long ago at all. That wasn't so wonderful for a lot of folks in this country.

So cheer up. If your prediction is right we have a good 25 years before we become France or Germany. So live it up now and enjoy your life. You're one of the lucky ones. You have a good job and a BMW. Your future is bright. And when we do become France or Germany will that really be so bad? Just think, you won't have fly 8 hours to visit the Eiffle tower and you won't have to pay that high premium for your Bimmer!

By the way, which one are you... a maker or a taker?
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      01-23-2013, 02:43 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
Actually the economy is better. We're not all the way there yet, but we are getting there, and no thanks to Republicans obstructing all the way.
Prove your statment with facts. Below is the national debt to GDP as a percentage for the last 4 or so years. Go ahead and tell me again how the economy is getting better.

Sept. 30, 2012 - 101.6%
June 30, 2012 - 101.7%
March 31, 2012 - 100.7%
Dec. 31, 2011 - 99.36%
Sept. 30, 2011 - 97.54%
June 30, 2011 - 95.60%
March 31, 2011 - 96.32%
Dec. 31, 2010 - 95.18%
Sept. 30, 2010 - 93.04%
June 30, 2010 - 91.59%
March 31, 2010 - 89.51%
Dec. 31, 2009 - 87.11%
Sept. 30, 2009 - 85.36%
June 30, 2009 - 83.15%
March 31, 2009 - 79.92%
Dec. 31, 2008 - 75.98%
Sept. 30, 2008 - 69.64%
June 30, 2008 - 65.85%
March 31, 2008 - 66.12%
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      01-23-2013, 02:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smohr33 View Post
Prove your statment with facts. Below is the national debt to GDP as a percentage for the last 4 or so years. Go ahead and tell me again how the economy is getting better.

Sept. 30, 2012 - 101.6%
June 30, 2012 - 101.7%
March 31, 2012 - 100.7%
Dec. 31, 2011 - 99.36%
Sept. 30, 2011 - 97.54%
June 30, 2011 - 95.60%
March 31, 2011 - 96.32%
Dec. 31, 2010 - 95.18%
Sept. 30, 2010 - 93.04%
June 30, 2010 - 91.59%
March 31, 2010 - 89.51%
Dec. 31, 2009 - 87.11%
Sept. 30, 2009 - 85.36%
June 30, 2009 - 83.15%
March 31, 2009 - 79.92%
Dec. 31, 2008 - 75.98%
Sept. 30, 2008 - 69.64%
June 30, 2008 - 65.85%
March 31, 2008 - 66.12%

when making a point, you need links...you know where you found your info
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      01-23-2013, 02:53 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by BossSauce View Post
when making a point, you need links...you know where you found your info
Debt to GDP is an major economic indicator, the numbers can be found anywhere. They aren't some dreamed up numbers found on a partisan website if that's what you're saying.


Start here...
http://ycharts.com/indicators
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      01-23-2013, 03:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smohr33 View Post
Prove your statment with facts. Below is the national debt to GDP as a percentage for the last 4 or so years. Go ahead and tell me again how the economy is getting better.

Sept. 30, 2012 - 101.6%
June 30, 2012 - 101.7%
March 31, 2012 - 100.7%
Dec. 31, 2011 - 99.36%
Sept. 30, 2011 - 97.54%
June 30, 2011 - 95.60%
March 31, 2011 - 96.32%
Dec. 31, 2010 - 95.18%
Sept. 30, 2010 - 93.04%
June 30, 2010 - 91.59%
March 31, 2010 - 89.51%
Dec. 31, 2009 - 87.11%
Sept. 30, 2009 - 85.36%
June 30, 2009 - 83.15%
March 31, 2009 - 79.92%
Dec. 31, 2008 - 75.98%
Sept. 30, 2008 - 69.64%
June 30, 2008 - 65.85%
March 31, 2008 - 66.12%
But, but... The Dow is up, that must mean the economy is better!
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      01-23-2013, 05:23 PM   #10
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If the policies of President Obama are so horrible, then why are corporate profits up 171%?

Quote:
U.S. corporations’ after-tax profits have grown by 171 percent under Obama, more than under any president since World War II, and are now at their highest level relative to the size of the economy since the government began keeping records in 1947, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...usiness-obama/
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      01-23-2013, 08:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smohr33 View Post
Prove your statment with facts. Below is the national debt to GDP as a percentage for the last 4 or so years. Go ahead and tell me again how the economy is getting better.

Sept. 30, 2012 - 101.6%
June 30, 2012 - 101.7%
March 31, 2012 - 100.7%
Dec. 31, 2011 - 99.36%
Sept. 30, 2011 - 97.54%
June 30, 2011 - 95.60%
March 31, 2011 - 96.32%
Dec. 31, 2010 - 95.18%
Sept. 30, 2010 - 93.04%
June 30, 2010 - 91.59%
March 31, 2010 - 89.51%
Dec. 31, 2009 - 87.11%
Sept. 30, 2009 - 85.36%
June 30, 2009 - 83.15%
March 31, 2009 - 79.92%
Dec. 31, 2008 - 75.98%
Sept. 30, 2008 - 69.64%
June 30, 2008 - 65.85%
March 31, 2008 - 66.12%
You've given us the Fox news version of the health of the economy. I won't call it an out right lie but let's just say it's terribly incomplete, which makes it inexcusably misleading. The debt to GDP is just one indicator of the health and strength of the economy. There are other important indicators that help determine the health of the economy. Here are 10 signs the economy is improving: (you asked for it)

10. Rise in Expensive Equipment Sales

The recession may have been over for more than a year, but consumers are just starting to see signs of economic recovery. See more recession pictures.

Although some economists declared the most recent recession over in June 2009, the mortgage crisis, fluctuating gas prices, a shaky stock market and other complex economic issues continue to drag down both the U.S. and global economies. The beginning of 2011, however, has shown market watchers signs of hope. Commercial sales are on the rise and unemployment is somewhat down.

Economists and financial analysts can predict some of these market fluctuations, but the economy is like an incredibly complex machine that's missing the owner's manual. There are so many variables and factors affecting the deeply interconnected web of worldwide economies that even the most experienced economist can only take educated attempts at fiscal prognostication. Instead of reading tea leaves or looking for signs in the stars, we can look for evidence of real economic recovery. Here are 10 signs that the U.S. economy is gaining back the ground it lost during the recession.

Any sales increase is a positive sign for the economy, but sales of high-end equipment are especially important. In the technology sector, large servers and other expensive electronic equipment have increased. The purchase of specialized medical testing equipment by hospitals and labs has also increased from the end of 2010 through early 2011.

These kinds of sales increases are important not only because they show that companies have enough financial confidence to make major purchases, but also because they represent a major increase in overall economic activity. The companies that produce this expensive equipment have new orders that can allow them to expand, or at least rehire workers laid off during the downturn. The purchasers have new revenue streams as more customers use their new equipment.

Where did the data on these increased purchases come from? From the companies likeliest to notice: specialty shipping firms. An MRI machine or a huge generator that maintains power flow to a server farm can't just be loaded into a moving van -- they must be carefully packed and transported by experts to avoid damage. The specialty shipping industry is showing a lot of confidence in large-scale industrial transportation in 2011 [source: PRWeb]. Other reports indicate 0.9 percent growth in the manufacturing of business equipment, computers and semiconductors [source: Chandra & Kowalski].

9. Housing Prices No Longer in Freefall

According to the Brookings Institution, in the third quarter of 2010, housing prices rose in 80 of the 100 largest metropolitan areas in the U.S., and rose 0.6 percent overall among those 100 cities. While the gain is small, it's significant because each of those 100 cities had experienced a decline in housing prices for the previous three quarters [source: Wial & Shearer].

Housing prices are an important indicator of economic recovery in general because, for most Americans, the majority of their wealth is tied to the value of their home. It may be an even more important as a sign of recovery right now because the Great Recession is so closely linked to a collapse in the housing market.

8. Advertising Sales Are Growing

A lot of our economy is tied to advertising. Look at magazines, television, professional sports, local newspapers, Internet sites and the like: We often take for granted that these things are primarily funded by advertising. In 2009, advertising spending in the U.S. fell 7 percent and grew just 1.5 percent in 2010. When advertising spending slows, it cripples a huge chunk of the economy

The advertising industry is not expecting a miraculous turnaround, but analysts predict a 2.5 percent increase in U.S. advertising sales in 2011 -- which is certainly an improvement -- and 9 percent growth through 2013. While it's not spectacular growth, it a whole lot better than a decline [source: McClellan].

7. Factory Production is Increasing

Manufacturing makes up roughly 13 percent of the U.S. economy. That's significant, but in some nations, manufacturing represents 20 percent or more of the total gross domestic product (GDP) [source: U.N.]. Gains and losses in manufacturing can often be felt more keenly than even these numbers would suggest, since a shuttered factory can cripple the economy of an entire city or region. Ask the citizens of Detroit.

With that in mind, news that the Ford Motor Company plans to increase factory production by 13 percent in response to a 27 percent increase in the number of individual buyers in January of 2011 is a very good sign for the economy [source: Krisher]. General Motors also reported record profits in 2010 as well [source: Bunkley].The big picture looks rosy as well: In mid-February, the Federal Reserve reported a 0.3 percent increase in U.S. manufacturing output [source: Chandra & Kowalski].

6. Record Corporate Profits

Standard & Poor's 500 Index shows 2010 was the third-best year for corporations since 1998. Even adjusted for inflation, corporate profits were much more robust in 2010 than in 2009, showing a 17 percent increase. This figure excludes financial corporations, who had such a terrible 2009 that they'd make those profits look artificially huge if they were included [source: Shipman & Vigna].

If you believe that vast corporate profits will inevitably "trickle down" to enrich other parts of the U.S. economy, then this is purely good news. While there's plenty of debate over whether corporate profits really do help the economy, they're almost certainly better than large-scale corporate losses.

5. The Recovery of Retail Sales

Eventually, economic downturns make their way to the average spender. Consumer confidence falls as people save more and spend less in fear of even worse times to come. Reduced consumer spending hurts retailers, which hurts retail employees, who represent another big chunk of the economy. So an increase in retail sales is a good sign that the recovery is affecting all levels of the economy.

The good news: the National Retail Federation's 2011 economic forecast predicts a 4 percent increase in retail sales. Retail growth has enjoyed seven months of continual growth, and retailers had a pretty good 2010 holiday shopping season, so things are looking moderately optimistic on that front [source: Grannis].

4. Unemployment is Declining

High unemployment numbers are a sure sign of a terrible economic situation. People who aren't working aren't earning money, producing goods or spending money, and they're likely surviving on government subsidies. It's a good sign that the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported a decline in unemployment levels in January 2011, dropping to 9 percent from 9.4 percent in December 2010. The February jobs report was even better, with the unemployment rate dropping to 8.9 percent -- the lowest levels in nearly a year [source: CNNMoney.com].

Unfortunately, a different survey, this one by Gallup, indicates an increase in unemployment from 9.8 percent to 10 percent [source: Xuequan]. Gallup uses their own polling methods, separate from the government's statistics.

Is this good news or bad? Well, at least it's close enough for debate. From Oct. 2007 to Jan. 2010 unemployment rose from 4.4 percent to 10.6 percent [source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics]. Whichever numbers you trust, at least things are nowhere near that bad.

3. Jobs are Gaining …Slowly

The U.S. Department of Labor's January 2011 jobs report wasn't especially exciting. On top of the questionable reduction in unemployment, the U.S. only added 36,000 jobs that month.

This is a positive sign, though -- another case of small gains being a lot better than huge losses. For example, the U.S. economy lost 39,000 jobs in January 2010, and suffered losses in June, July, August and September 2010. Plus, some economists think a wave of serious winter weather hampered job growth in January 2011 [source: Censky]. The February jobs report proved them right, showing a sharp rebound as the unemployment rate dropped to 8.9 percent and the economy

2. The Weak Dollar

The U.S. dollar hasn't been this weak in decades. That means that a U.S. dollar is worth less compared to other currencies. In 2002, the cost of one Euro was about 86 cents -- representing a strong dollar [source: Weiner]. Today, that Euro will cost roughly $1.37 [source: Zhou]. In practical terms, that means that things in Europe (or made there) are more expensive for Americans, while American goods are cheaper for Europeans.

A weak dollar has a lot of economic effects, not all of them good. In fact, if you want to start a fight among a group of economists, ask them if a weak dollar is good or bad for the economy.

That said, we're looking for positive signs, and one of the beneficial things about a weak dollar is that it helps American manufacturers. When their products become less expensive for the rest of the world, they can export more goods, boosting sales and their overall bottom line. The influx of foreign money can help fuel economic recovery.

1. Economists Say It’s Improving

In early 2011, economists noted that the chances of a double-dip recession were slim, and that the economy seemed to be gaining strength on its own merits, not on the back of government stimulus. The majority of economists surveyed felt that, despite weak areas, the U.S. economy was poised for modest growth [source: Izzo].

Why do we care what economists think? With the economy, perception is almost as important as reality. Whether or not someone invests in your business or builds a factory in your country is based largely on how they perceive the strength of your economy. Rosy projections by economists won't fix a troubled economy, but they help encourage investors when the economy is going through a genuine recovery.
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      01-23-2013, 11:10 PM   #12
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I'm giving you the Fox News version? Thank you for plagiarizing a "howstuffworks" article from 2011. Clearly that's an indicator of whats happening right now in 2013. Nice try though.

http://money.howstuffworks.com/10-si...ing.htm#page=0
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      01-24-2013, 04:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smohr33 View Post
I'm giving you the Fox News version? Thank you for plagiarizing a "howstuffworks" article from 2011. Clearly that's an indicator of whats happening right now in 2013. Nice try though.

http://money.howstuffworks.com/10-si...ing.htm#page=0

+1, Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark!
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      01-24-2013, 03:14 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
... and yet the American people still said NO to the Republican freak show with it's outdated ideas and it's out of touch representatives. Get a clue republicans, we're just not that into you.
Agreed. The GOP needs to drop the social conservatism and big spending if they're to be seen as a real alternative. They're both big-spending statist, although Obama has indeed taken big spending to new extremes. It makes the old-fashion big-spending GOP seem conservative in comparisson...but they're not.
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      01-24-2013, 04:23 PM   #15
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I stopped associating myself with a party a long time ago. I vote republican because its the only alternative but both parties are the same (meaning I think they suck). One wants ridiculousness and the other eventually goes along with it. All we do is move further and further left. I can't tell you how ashamed I was after the election when I realized the person who won, won because he would give away more free stuff. So sad
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      01-26-2013, 02:30 PM   #16
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I just stopped by to remind myself that I have absolutely nothing in common with conservatives. Thanks guys, that was both quick and effective.
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      02-02-2013, 06:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
If the policies of President Obama are so horrible, then why are corporate profits up 171%?



http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...usiness-obama/

What a useless comment. Corporate profits go up for ALOT of reasons, corporations lower costs to improve their bottom line, espcially to make earnings numbers look positive to impress shareholders. How do they do this? by setting up the corporatation in corporate tax havens, moving manufacturing OFFSHORE to China or other places etc etc.

Obama as much as he keeps telling everyone they didnt build it and so they owe the government more, he is flat out wrong. His policies and laws have not improved company profits at all..... CEOs and executives running corporations making strategic choices made these profits possible. Government involvement in a free market always causes dead weight loss!!

Furthermore, percentages are never a good way of displaying success in the business world. 171% from what? a massive downturn where last month or last year we were in the negative? Proportionally this number is almost always skewed and not reflective of just profits going up. i.e. Im running a corporation, i made a dollar this year, next year i made 2, oh look my profits went up 100% but the real impact is miniscule and meaningless cause i only made a buck. Looking at this in a percentage helps hide the real number and story behind numbers.
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