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      01-20-2013, 03:36 AM   #1
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6AT Trans Upgrade options

Gents

So we all know of the Level 10 upgrade option that Enrita has on his car, and last word is he is past 10k miles and the Trans is still happy. However there is still a lot of negative stories from the Supra and Audi world regarding Level 10. In addition there is IPT but I can't find any threads or members that have used IPT for an upgrade.

I recently came across 517trans.com it seems that the founder of this outfit was a former employee of Level 10 and left due to business practices that he did not believe in. Sam at 517 seems to be the one that has shed light on the true extent of lack there of for the Level 10 upgrade.

My question is has anyone in the BMW world used IPT or 517Trans. I really need to pull the trigger on a trans but need a company that will perform and back their product.

Level 10 is rebuild kit (supposedly OEM) upgraded Valve Body (springs at shimmed with Washers according to 517) and upgraded TQ converter

IPT is the same items plus increasing Oil Pressure from 65psi to 115. I'm just not sure if they use shims in the VB or new springs and if their rebuild is OEM or upgraded clutch plate material.

517trans is the same items upgraded but they claim they are using upgraded springs for the VB and upgraded clutch plate material for
The rebuild.

Any help would be great gents.

PS I'm not bashing either shop and originally was gonna pull the trigger with Level 10 based on Enritas results. But there is a lot of bad rep in the Supra and Audi world on Level 10 and IPT.
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      01-20-2013, 08:27 AM   #2
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Where do you see 335i in their catalog?
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      01-20-2013, 08:33 AM   #3
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If they do 335i, id skip the upgrade and order a full trans right now, regardless of no reviews. lol, not exactly, but I'm with you... I'm itching for a legit build with my finger on the Chart button. Im ready to order a custom unit.
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      01-20-2013, 03:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by HPF 335i #1
Where do you see 335i in their catalog?
It's not on their catalog I'm gonna call them on Tuesday. I'm sure they can do it.
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      01-20-2013, 11:54 PM   #5
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im in the same boat... i guess i believe in their VB and TQverter.. but I'm having a SEriously hard time with the overhaul kit. No way in hell they are custom making them in-house. And I've Exhausted the internet trying to find a similar kit.
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      01-21-2013, 01:53 PM   #6
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VALVE BODY AND MECHATRONIC SERVICE

Drive-ability Concerns and Corrections:
 Slip in Reverse, Harsh shifting once hot, 4-5 slip or flare.
Valve body hydraulic service.

According to this the shift issues between 4th and 5th under load are due to the valve body. Looking at the Level 10, I think they are full of ____ for charging what they charge. So what are they upgrading to charge what they charge considering I can buy a used trans locally for less than $1500, buy a new valve body for less that a $1000 do the work myself in a few hours.

I wish I had the time and money to do the R&D because I don't think this is rocket science. Need to find someone with knowledge of valve body upgrades. This could be as simple as ordering a stock rebuild kit and upgrading some of the springs. BMW is not the only company using the 6HP so I'm sure someone other than Level 10 has some knowledge regarding the 6HP. We just need to find it.
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      01-21-2013, 02:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
VALVE BODY AND MECHATRONIC SERVICE

Drive-ability Concerns and Corrections:
 Slip in Reverse, Harsh shifting once hot, 4-5 slip or flare.
Valve body hydraulic service.

According to this the shift issues between 4th and 5th under load are due to the valve body. Looking at the Level 10, I think they are full of ____ for charging what they charge. So what are they upgrading to charge what they charge considering I can buy a used trans locally for less than $1500, buy a new valve body for less that a $1000 do the work myself in a few hours.

I wish I had the time and money to do the R&D because I don't think this is rocket science. Need to find someone with knowledge of valve body upgrades. This could be as simple as ordering a stock rebuild kit and upgrading some of the springs. BMW is not the only company using the 6HP so I'm sure someone other than Level 10 has some knowledge regarding the 6HP. We just need to find it.
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      01-21-2013, 02:50 PM   #8
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http://www.sonnax.com/product-lines/...ion/parts/3846

Looks like Sonnax has a lot of DIY kits for the Ford 6R60 and 6HP19 which are basically the same.
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      01-21-2013, 02:53 PM   #9
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Wonder if we could get a bit more line pressure/clutch apply pressure by just some TCU coding? I know this wouldn't be a complete fix but maybe there is some opportunity not sure though.
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      01-21-2013, 03:47 PM   #10
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http://www.btamotorsports.com.au/index.php/auto-transmission-boxes-for-fg-falcon/

These fellas look serious. I'd love to pick their brain on the zf6hp21. I'll reach out and get their thoughts.
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      01-21-2013, 03:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
VALVE BODY AND MECHATRONIC SERVICE

Drive-ability Concerns and Corrections:
 Slip in Reverse, Harsh shifting once hot, 4-5 slip or flare.
Valve body hydraulic service.

According to this the shift issues between 4th and 5th under load are due to the valve body. Looking at the Level 10, I think they are full of ____ for charging what they charge. So what are they upgrading to charge what they charge considering I can buy a used trans locally for less than $1500, buy a new valve body for less that a $1000 do the work myself in a few hours.

I wish I had the time and money to do the R&D because I don't think this is rocket science. Need to find someone with knowledge of valve body upgrades. This could be as simple as ordering a stock rebuild kit and upgrading some of the springs. BMW is not the only company using the 6HP so I'm sure someone other than Level 10 has some knowledge regarding the 6HP. We just need to find it.
+1....

lot's of noise out there...

Regarding the 6hp...We looked into quite some solution directions... but to do it better then what the default setup is, men would need to have access to the mechatronic... I decided to just replace the internals... as I had done 100.000 miles on the first AT... I was ok with that.. costed me 3500,- euro...
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      01-23-2013, 07:15 AM   #12
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I just got this email back from 517 Tans...

Eric,
We do offer upgraded units that we have with 620 whp and with great dd
driveability. It gets more power off the line and it last for years. We are
ones that honestly upgrade without sacrifise. Upgraded clutches, steels,
complete valve body recalibration, pump valve train upgrades, bushing,
bearings... comes with a 6 months unlimited mileage warranty.
We do need your unit t upgrade which is about 4-5 buiness days. It will not
slip it grabs and goes.

Thank You
Sam
517 TRANS
973-823-6320

IDK... Sent them a reply asking for parts information and a quote. well see. Im kinda iffy already because of the "We have 620WHP car" and "It lasts for years"... I asked them about those comments.
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      01-23-2013, 07:32 AM   #13
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Good work , keep it up ....
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      01-23-2013, 09:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
http://www.sonnax.com/product-lines/...ion/parts/3846

Looks like Sonnax has a lot of DIY kits for the Ford 6R60 and 6HP19 which are basically the same.
I dk i called level 10 and i don't know if they just told me what i want to hear.. but they if you get the valve body upgrade your transmission will shift harder, from experience that better for your transmission performance wise reduces clutch slip., but i then asked them how do you perform the valve body upgrade and i was like "do you sonnex it?" he was like no we don't use that sonnex crap we do our own ._.
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      01-23-2013, 09:33 AM   #15
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Maybe a stupid question but would a zf6hp28 or 32 fit in our cars? Or some of the internals into the zf6hp21 case. 28 is the higher TQ spec'd version of the zf6hp21 if I understand the numbers right.
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      01-23-2013, 10:31 AM   #16
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Maybe a stupid question but would a zf6hp28 or 32 fit in our cars? Or some of the internals into the zf6hp21 case. 28 is the higher TQ spec'd version of the zf6hp21 if I understand the numbers right.
It could possibly fit, not sure about the bell housing bolt pattern. but the Valve body/mechatronic unit will be the Impossible part.
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      01-23-2013, 05:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy_0559 View Post
I dk i called level 10 and i don't know if they just told me what i want to hear.. but they if you get the valve body upgrade your transmission will shift harder, from experience that better for your transmission performance wise reduces clutch slip., but i then asked them how do you perform the valve body upgrade and i was like "do you sonnex it?" he was like no we don't use that sonnex crap we do our own ._.
I also spoke with sonnex, and they don't have any shift kits for the 6hp19 or 6R60. Tech I spoke with said they don't have anything in the works for the transmission, but to keep checking back as they are starting to get more age on them on.
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      01-23-2013, 05:28 PM   #18
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I know this isn't the same trans, but interesting read.


ZF 6HP26 (RWD) Transmission
Transmission Control System Architecture
The ZF 6HP26 is a 6-speed, step ratio transmission that is controlled by a standalone Transmission Control Module (TCM), The TCM communicates to the Engine Control Module (ECM), ABS Module, Instrument Cluster and Transfer Case Control Module using the high speed CAN communication link. The TCM incorporates a standalone OBD-II system. The TCM independently processes and stores fault codes, freeze frame, supports industry-standard PIDs as well as J1979 Mode 09 CALID and CVN. The TCM does not directly illuminate the MIL, but requests the ECM to do so.

The TCM is located inside the transmission assembly. It is not serviceable with the exception of reprogramming.

Transmission Inputs
Transmission Range Sensor
The non-contacting, Hall effect Transmission Range (TR) sensor provides four digital inputs to the TCM. Each 4-bit pattern corresponds to the driver-selected gear position (Park, Rev, Neutral, D6, D4, 3, 2, 1). The 4-bit pattern is checked for invalid combinations (P0705).

Speed Sensors
The Turbine Shaft Speed (TSS) sensor and Output Shaft Speed (OSS) sensor are Hall effect sensors. The Turbine Shaft Speed sensor is monitored for circuit faults and rationality (P0715, P0717). If turbine shaft speed exceeds a maximum calibrated speed (7,700 rpm), a fault is stored (P0716). If engine speed and output shaft speed are high and a gear is engaged, it can be inferred that the vehicle is moving. If there is insufficient output from the TSS sensor a fault is stored (P0716).
The Output Shaft Speed sensor is monitored for circuit faults and rationality (P0720, P0722). If output shaft speed exceeds a maximum calibrated speed (7,450 rpm), a fault is stored (P0721). If output shaft speed does not
correlate with turbine shaft speed and wheel speed while a gear is engaged and the vehicle is moving, a fault is stored (P0721). If the output shaft speed decreases at an erratic/unreasonable rate, a fault is stored (P0723).

Transmission Fluid Temperature
The Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor is checked for open circuit, short circuit to ground, short circuit to power, and short circuit of the sensor (P0711, P0712, P0713, P0714). The transmission fluid temperature is checked for an erratic signal (P0714) and is also compared with the internal TCM temperature sensor as a rationality check (P0711).

Transmission Outputs

Shift Solenoids
The Shift Solenoid output circuits are duty-cycled outputs that are checked electrically for open circuit, short circuit to ground and short circuit to power by monitoring the status of a feedback circuit from the output driver (SSA - P0973, P0974; SSB - P0976, P0977; SSC - P0979, P0980; SSD - P0982, P0983; SSE - P0770, P0985, P0986).
In addition, during steady states, the current flow through the Variable Force Shift Solenoids is calculated based on a current feedback signal and compared with a target current value (SSA low current - P0972; SSB high current - P0975; SSC low current - P0978; SSD high current - P0981).
The shift solenoids are functionally monitored through gear ratio and shift monitoring. The actual gear ratio versus the expected gear ratio is monitored. If there is a mismatch, a fault is stored (1st gear - P0731; 2nd gear - P0732; 3rd gear - P0733; 4th gear - P0734; 5th gear - P0735; 6th gear - P0729; reverse gear - P0736). Shifts are also monitored. If the ratio characteristics do not change properly during a shift (rpm does not go down during an upward shift, rpm does not go up during a down-shift, or rpm flares during an up-shift), a fault is stored (1-2/2-1 shift - P0781; 2-3/3-2 shift - P0782; 3-4/4-3 shift - P0783; 4-5/5-4 shift - P0784; 5-6/6-5 shift - P0829).

Torque Converter Clutch
The Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Solenoid output circuit is a duty-cycled output that is checked electrically for
open circuit, short circuit to ground, and short circuit to power by monitoring the status of a feedback circuit from the output driver (P0740, P2763, P2764). If the TCC pressure is high and the engine torque is low, the TCC should be
fully applied or have a controlled amount of slippage. If the slip exceeds a threshold, a fault is stored (P0741).

Pressure Control
The Pressure Control solenoid is a variable force solenoid that controls line pressure in the transmission. The Pressure Control solenoid output circuit is a duty-cycled output that is checked electrically for short circuit to ground or short circuit to battery by monitoring the status of a feedback circuit from the output driver (P0962, P0963). Note that the Pressure Control Solenoid failures P0960 and P0963 do not illuminate the MIL because the diagnostic action (maximum line pressure) does not affect emissions.

High Side Actuator Control Circuit
The TCM has a high side actuator supply control circuit that can be used to remove power from all 7 solenoids and the external Reverse Light Relay simultaneously. If the high side actuator control circuit is deactivated, all 7 solenoids and the external Reverse Light Relay will be electrically turned off, providing Park, Reverse, Neutral, and 3M/5M (in all forward ranges) with maximum line pressure, based on the selected transmission range. The actuator control circuit is tested for open and short circuits to power and ground. (P0657, P0658, P0659).

Transmission Control Module (TCM)
The TCM monitors itself by using a watchdog circuit and by various software monitoring functions. If there is a fault, a P0613 is stored. The flash ROM is checked using a checksum calculation. If the checksum is incorrect, a P0605 fault will be stored. The EEPROM is emulated in the flash ROM. If it is not possible to store information in the EEPROM emulation or if the verification fails, a P062F fault is stored and the ECM is requested to illuminate the MIL immediately. If the diagnostic software tries to enter two contradictory failure mode strategies or if there are contradictory output states commanded versus the expected output states, a P0701 fault is stored.

CAN Communications Error
The TCM receives information from the ECM via the high speed CAN network. If the CAN link or network fails, the TCM no longer has torque or engine speed information available. The TCM will store a U0073 fault code and will illuminate the MIL immediately (missing engine speed) if the CAN Bus is off. The TCM will store a U0100 fault code and will illuminate the MIL immediately (missing engine speed) if it stops receiving CAN messages from the ECM.

If the engine speed from the ECM is unreasonably high (> 6,000 rpm), a P0219 fault will be stored.

Internal Over Temperature
If the TCM internal temperature sensor indicates an over temperature condition, the TCM will shut down and a fault will be stored (P0634). The MIL will be illuminated immediately.

Internal TCM Power Supply
If the power supply voltage is outside of the specified 9 to 16 volt range, a fault will be stored (P0562, P0563).

Sensor Supply Voltage
If the sensor supply voltage is too high or too low, a fault will be stored (P0641).
A number of carmakers use the 6HP26 auto, as in the preamble this one is Ford.
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      01-24-2013, 10:15 PM   #19
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Thanks guys for all the great updates. HPF335 let us know what Sam quotes you, I never got a chance to call him. I wonder what 620whp car he is referring to.

Wedge sorry I didn't get a chance to call u back. I have been slammed with work.
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      01-24-2013, 10:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Maybe a stupid question but would a zf6hp28 or 32 fit in our cars? Or some of the internals into the zf6hp21 case. 28 is the higher TQ spec'd version of the zf6hp21 if I understand the numbers right.
It could possibly fit, not sure about the bell housing bolt pattern. but the Valve body/mechatronic unit will be the Impossible part.
The bell housing is different
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      01-24-2013, 11:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
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The bell housing is different
Chop & Weld. Problem solved. Just need someone with the money and nuts to do something. Go for it Prem...
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      01-25-2013, 12:04 AM   #22
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIKH335 View Post
The bell housing is different
Chop & Weld. Problem solved. Just need someone with the money and nuts to do something. Go for it Prem...
And the TCU??
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