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      01-25-2013, 10:08 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by cssnms View Post
Would you do us a favor and post all of the fault codes from your service tickets leading up the final diagnosis?
Yes. Just as soon as I get my car back. Most of the documentation is in it.
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      01-25-2013, 10:21 AM   #24
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Seems like 2 out of 24 posts with carbon build up, not bad, but interestingly most of us who beat the car like a two cent whore dont have any problems as of yet with carbon build up, its suffice to say that our cars have to be driven HARD so that this issue cannot come later. What do you think Chris on this?
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      01-25-2013, 10:46 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d View Post
Seems like 2 out of 24 posts with carbon build up, not bad, but interestingly most of us who beat the car like a two cent whore dont have any problems as of yet with carbon build up, its suffice to say that our cars have to be driven HARD so that this issue cannot come later. What do you think Chris on this?
I'm gonna say that just prolongs it.
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      01-25-2013, 11:10 AM   #26
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2009
335d
62,000 (Extended Warranty AUL)
Mpg 26.5
29 mls +-
Chevron
2.5
Highway 40% / City 60%

Carbon build up issue YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Additional Info:
Fighting with BMW NA right now to fix problem. BMW NA claims its a maintenance issue but the car has been perfectly maintained through the dealership from day one (with service records to prove it). AUL warranty company will not cover the cost because they claim it is an emission problem. Cost to fix $4,800. BMW NA alongside dealership has only offered to pay a $1,250 towards repairs. This has been a bad deal all together and I have not had my car back for over 60 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Once I get this resolved I am selling it and will never buy a BMW again in my life no matter what! Even if I somehow win one in a contest I sell it immediately.

Bottom line: Stay away from 335d. You should not have to drive your car hard to avoid this problem.
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      01-25-2013, 02:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d View Post
Seems like 2 out of 24 posts with carbon build up, not bad, but interestingly most of us who beat the car like a two cent whore dont have any problems as of yet with carbon build up, its suffice to say that our cars have to be driven HARD so that this issue cannot come later. What do you think Chris on this?
Hard to say Axel, so many variables to consider as to what is causing the issue in otherwise low mileage vehicles e.g. driving style, fuel quality, timing of ecu/egr reprograming/replacement etc. Needless to say the issue, although rare, is cause for me to have some level of concern.
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      01-25-2013, 03:29 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cssnms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d View Post
Seems like 2 out of 24 posts with carbon build up, not bad, but interestingly most of us who beat the car like a two cent whore dont have any problems as of yet with carbon build up, its suffice to say that our cars have to be driven HARD so that this issue cannot come later. What do you think Chris on this?
Hard to say Axel, so many variables to consider as to what is causing the issue in otherwise low mileage vehicles e.g. driving style, fuel quality, timing of ecu/egr reprograming/replacement etc. Needless to say the issue, although rare, is cause for me to have some level of concern.

I agree with the cause for concern. I wonder if we could gather enough D owners to send a group correspondence to BMWNA so that they would not be just dealing with single owners, with the idea of putting some pressure on them to resolve the issue or at least find some palliative remedies. They might be worried if BMW CCA members or at least an organized group of owners was complaining right when they are just preparing to announce their next round of USA bound diesels.
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      01-25-2013, 03:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dFan View Post
I agree with the cause for concern. I wonder if we could gather enough D owners to send a group correspondence to BMWNA so that they would not be just dealing with single owners, with the idea of putting some pressure on them to resolve the issue or at least find some palliative remedies. They might be worried if BMW CCA members or at least an organized group of owners was complaining right when they are just preparing to announce their next round of USA bound diesels.
That is a really good point, is there anyone out there who would be willing to draft a letter so that we have a consistent message.
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      01-25-2013, 03:58 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by dzlmoose View Post
That is a really good point, is there anyone out there who would be willing to draft a letter so that we have a consistent message.
I'm not a bad writer, but I think there are some other fellows out there (like cssnms or formerrotor) who have a better grasp of the technical issues and the ins and outs of the CCA and BMWNA organizations who would be better suited to draft a letter.

Then some forum guru can figure out the best way to get enough D owners to sign on to this effort so the letter has some heft.
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      01-25-2013, 04:36 PM   #31
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Casues for the 335d premature carbon build up and/or soot

From the pattern I have observed and the reseach I have done:

BMW released the letter regarding the redesigned EGR emissions sytem on May 2012

Any 335d that either racked up significat miles (~40k+) or mostly city driving (~20k+) before this update (SIB 18-02-12) they are a potential victim of carbon build up (or maybe excessive amounts of soot). The excessive carbon and/or soot need to be cleaned from the cylinder head and intake manifold regardless of the update. Only then, this updated system should prevent this issue from reoccuring.

Any 335d that received this updated system while their miles were still low may just be OK. They may only have minimal carbon build up or sooth build up (not enough to trigger the SES).

Now there are no reported cases (on the internet) where after the new EGR system update a healthy 335d (no carbon build up) is diagnosed with "new or more" carbon build up or excessive soot.

So, I wouldn't blame the driving style, but more so of the original emissions system design in the M57 by BMW.

Also the reason we don't see this issue so frequently is because not too many drivers racked up ~40k+ miles in 2 years before the emissions system update.
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      01-25-2013, 04:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dFan View Post
I agree with the cause for concern. I wonder if we could gather enough D owners to send a group correspondence to BMWNA so that they would not be just dealing with single owners, with the idea of putting some pressure on them to resolve the issue or at least find some palliative remedies. They might be worried if BMW CCA members or at least an organized group of owners was complaining right when they are just preparing to announce their next round of USA bound diesels.
If you want to apply pressure the letter should also go to BMW Group - they have a facebook page where I left a not so glowing comment concerning this issue to include attaching links to several posts from here and on Fest. I also sent them an e-mail,,, both resulted in a very prompt response and two phone calls from BMWNA.

In other words a letter should go out to both BMW Group's chairman and BMWNA citing specific examples/owners and our cause for concern as it relates to the short and longterm reliability of our diesels. Furthermore, let me suggest thaat the same letter should clearly acknowledge the fact that neither BMW Group, BMWNA or its servicing dealers have responded as to the cause or the remedy and to the contrary, dealers appear completely incapable of fielding the questions.
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      01-25-2013, 05:50 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robspages View Post
Yes. Just as soon as I get my car back. Most of the documentation is in it.
Car is back home. I've driven about 80 miles on it since they handed it over at 1pm this afternoon and it feels great to have it back. Mileage seems to have improved by +5 mpg so far. I DO baby my car. It rarely sees over 3,000 RPM and still cruise at a pretty good clip like that.

Here are the codes, dates, parts and comments from my 3 trips leading up to and including the carbon build up removal. The text has been reformatted by me to be more readable. Fault codes and things I thought important are in bold.

12/14/2012
-------------------------
37,316 miles

Summary: SES due to Mass Air Sensor failure

Service notes: Factory Fault in DDE: 3FF1 Air Mass Flow Sensor. Completed test plan for fault. Inspected engine for air leaks, smoke test engine air ducts. No leaks present. Inspect sensor connections and signal/power/ground. No Fault. Replaced Mass Air Flow Sensor. Complete Service Test Plan to clear DDE Air Flow Sensor Adaptation and cleared fault memory. Test drove vehicle.

Parts:
1 13.62-8-509-725 HOT-FILM AIR MASS M


01/11/2013
------------------------
39,245 miles

Summary: SES from intake pressure loss. Temp sensor threw failure once that was cleared

Service Notes: Intake charge air pressure loss due to leaking charge air pipes. Connect battery charger to vehicle and complete vehicle test. Faults stored in DDE: 4595 Smooth running controller. Cylinder 6: 3FF1 Air Mass Flow sensor.

Complete test plan for faults and complete inspection for leaks with smoke machine. No air leaks present. Per test plan, replaced charge air temperature sensor, cleared fault memory and drove vehicle overnight.

Rechecked faults and found 3FF1 fault returned. Per fault data, inspect air pipes for oil residue indicating air leakage. Found oil residue on both charge air pipes.

Complete test plan again and select air leaks as fault.

Replaced both intake charge air pipes: Intercooler to EGR and Intercooler to turbocharger then cleared fault memory and test drove vehicle again. No faults returned

Parts:
1 13-62-7-812-741 TEMPERATURE SENSOR
1 11-61-7-812-274 CHARGE AIR LINE
1 11-61-8-506-078 CHARGE AIR LINE


01/25/2013
----------------------------
40,024 miles

Summary: SES back on due to swirl flaps binding, incorrect air flow through manifold

Service Notes: Intake manifold swirl flaps are binding and causing incorrect air flow through manifold causing air mass fault

VOR intake manifold for Tuesday / Fedex failed to deliver on Tuesday

Connect Battery charger to vehicle and complete vehicle test. Fault stored in DDE: Air Mass Fault. Complete test plan for fault. Test intake air temperature sensor and mass air flow sensor. No Fault.

Smoke test engine and intake system, no leaks present.

Removed engine covers and intake manifold to inspect swirl flaps. Found linkage was binding at some spots

Ordered intake manifold.

92575 - Installed New intake manifold
51372 - Cleared fault memory and test drove vehicle overnight

Rechecked vehicle faults, no faults stored in vehicle and no warning lights are on or came on during drive.

Parts:
1 303 BRAKLEEN 5
1 304 GUM CUTTER 5
1 11-61-8-519-140 INTAKE MANIFOLD WIT
1 13-54-7-792-098 O-RING
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      01-25-2013, 06:02 PM   #34
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Robspage, I had my air intake manifold replaced too. My invoice said one of the reasons stated due to changing the air intake manifold was "carbon build-up."

My car only had 22,000 kms (14,000 miles) on it when this happened last summer.
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      01-25-2013, 09:02 PM   #35
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I just went in again to talk to my service rep manager to continue pressing them to fix the issue. I need some help from the forum:
The service manager needs other case examples of this problem to pull up so he can show examples to the regional rep who is coming in town on Tuesday. He needs the last 7 numbers of the VIN from other Carbon build up D's to pull up cases from their database. Anyone that's had Carbon buildup please PM or email the last 7 digits of the VIN for me to compile a case list. patrickjuhlin@gmail.com In return I will put together a comprehensive case for others to use in the future and for a group letter.
Thanks in advance.
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      01-25-2013, 09:19 PM   #36
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My driving habits and fuel purchases mirror Robspages’. I had 47k miles on my car before the new EGR was installed. I included my recent history up to carbon cleaning and intake manifold replacement.

Yr: 2010
Model: 335d
Mileage: 55k
Avg MPG: 32
Avg Spd: 41.5
Fuel: Sunoco (85%)/WaWa (15%)
Drive type: 3-4 (most miles are commuting)
65/35 hwy/city. Commute is 35 miles each (70 miles a day, but have an SUV I drive 1-2 days a week – more during the winter)

Carbon build up issue yes or no? Yes

Additional info:
Have changed oil every 6,500 miles since car was new (either dealer or myself using Castro Edge LL04).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My History and codes:
6/4/2012
-------------------------
46,706 miles
Summary: Replace EGR Valve and Mixer Program w/CAS
No SES Codes yet

Parts:
1 18-30-8-512-438 Mixer E570431
1 11-71-8-512-526 EGR Valve
Numerous nuts, gaskets and 0-rings


6/20/2012 – 2 weeks after EGR was replaced (had car 7 days)
-------------------------
47,223 miles
Summary: SES Code Triggered, Performed ISID Test found fault code 4B05 Cyl 4 0 adaptn (if I remember correctly, this code showed up as P02D3 on the OBDII reader)

Service Notes: Replace Cylinder 4 Injectors and calibrate, ISID will not accept Calibration Code. Use neutral Code. Bleed Fuel System, Rd tested 5 miles. (I remember talking to the SA and him telling me the code kept coming back even after replacing the injector and they were working with Germany – thus the 7 days)

Parts:
1 13-53-7-808-094 RMFD Injector
3 08180 Brake Cleaner (awful lot of cleaner)
O-Rings and Gasket Ring


9/14/2012 (had car 2 days)
-------------------------
50,745 miles
Summary: SES Code Triggered, Test and Replace Metering Valve

Service Notes: Just says replaced metering valve under goodwill

Parts:
1 18-30-7-807-206 Metering Unit


12/13/2012 (had car 21 days)
-------------------------
54,395 miles
Summary: SES Code Triggered, Found smooth running faults & 0 Adapt fault - Diagnostic code to replace #4 injector (they did not list a code, but my OBDII showed the same P02D3 as when the issue started)

Service Notes: Checked calibration and match numbers on injectors; submit PUMA case. R&R (remove and replace) intake and check for carbon. Found carbon thru intake, valve covers and on valves. Per PUMA, replace Intake Manifold, Perform carbon cleaning, clear faults and road test. Sublet for Walnut Shells. Customer Goodwill.

Parts:
1 11-61-8-519-140 Intake Manifold WIT
Seals, O-rings and more brake cleaner.
Sublet for Walnut Shell Cleaning.


54,500 Miles
-------------------------
Car Runs better, but is back in the shop because of a burnt diesel exhaust smell filling the car at idle.
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      01-28-2013, 12:43 AM   #37
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Sorry I've been away and did not get a chance to post here. My 335d has close to 50K on it and has had multiple blocks, intake manifold, DPF filter, EGR cooler, SCR equipment replaced. The list of work is long.

Currently I'm dealing with the issue of exhaust smell in the cabin while I drive. Check engine light comes on so often I've put a picture of my family over it. I'm sure BMW will be keeping this car for a few more weeks.

The EGR was replaced around 23K miles on the car. I drive 50/50 between highway and city. I fill up at different Shell and Sheezts stations. I've been pushing my car hard.

I'm going to end up keeping this car since I have the BMW extended warranty. After the 100K warranty I will see how long I'll keep it. I've got a lift and engine jack. Might just have some fun taking the N57 apart and documenting it. Still annoyed Bentley did not opt for printing a service manual for the N57.

On the brighter side my X5d has been trouble free!
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      01-28-2013, 10:08 AM   #38
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On the brighter side my X5d has been trouble free!
How many miles on the X5d? At what miles was the recall done on it?
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      01-28-2013, 10:17 AM   #39
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X5 now has 26K miles. Recall was done at 21K.
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      01-29-2013, 10:43 AM   #40
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I've gone about 400 miles since getting my D back and so far all is well. My average MPG is up to 35.1 from 32.7 (~ 10% improvement, I reset when I got it back) and it feels more responsive. The weather has been crap in south-eastern PA for the past week so traffic has been moving differently than normal and I haven't been able to get a real data set.

It's hard for me to be really upset over this issue to date. My service dealer has been really good about handling the car. I've had various 2013 BMWs (X3, X1, 328i) to play with while they were working on it. I feel pretty good about the steps taken and the responses I have received from them.

So far, everything has been covered under factory warranty which runs out in March however, so that opinion may change.

I offer any and all information I can give you to help get action from your service dealers.
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      01-29-2013, 10:56 AM   #41
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I had my EGR replaced but before 20k and had no more issues, but I did encounter a problem before the 1/2 race nad when we drove her twice to 150 mph she got REAL loose!!! after this two runs she has been running great so I firmly Believe you have to drive hard I for one have the RENNtech flash so I drive her even HARDER!!

Chris go for it any info on my part call me ok!!
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      01-29-2013, 01:45 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d View Post
I had my EGR replaced but before 20k and had no more issues, but I did encounter a problem before the 1/2 race nad when we drove her twice to 150 mph she got REAL loose!!! after this two runs she has been running great so I firmly Believe you have to drive hard I for one have the RENNtech flash so I drive her even HARDER!!

Chris go for it any info on my part call me ok!!
I'm too attached to the idea of having a warranty for this kind of stuff to roll a tune. Maybe in 2 years though...
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      01-30-2013, 09:52 AM   #43
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Rob i understand your plight but I have always gambled and won with Tunes, cars have actually performed and lasted, prime example my old 20 MCS is still running in Puerto Rico had the RENNtech tune for MCS and the new owner removed it cause the car ran to fast
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      01-30-2013, 04:38 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedaDiesel_335D View Post
54,500 Miles
-------------------------
Car Runs better, but is back in the shop because of a burnt diesel exhaust smell filling the car at idle.
Check this.
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