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      01-27-2013, 05:49 PM   #287
mistryn
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The green tab is already on the back of the HU, just needs unplugging and plugging onto the techincs harness - iirc you are using a techinics harness?
no need to buy anything

It is a bit of pain in temrs of having to remove the HU out and getting to the back but actuall swapping over is not bad 2 min job

The SOS the footwell trim has to come out - its only held on by 3 or so screws and just slides down and have a look if the sos connector is connected - if it is probalbly just needs error code resetting
see my link for green tab and sos connector further down
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=769602
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      01-27-2013, 06:09 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistryn View Post
The green tab is already on the back of the HU, just needs unplugging and plugging onto the techincs harness - iirc you are using a techinics harness?
no need to buy anything

It is a bit of pain in temrs of having to remove the HU out and getting to the back but actuall swapping over is not bad 2 min job

The SOS the footwell trim has to come out - its only held on by 3 or so screws and just slides down and have a look if the sos connector is connected - if it is probalbly just needs error code resetting
see my link for green tab and sos connector further down
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=769602
Hey Nitesh,

Yeah it's going to be a PITA so either I do it myself OR wait until March time to send it back off to have it all done, once in for all. I think I'll give it a go tbh but problem is I can't until weekends since it's gets so dark after work!!

I'll put up with no BT for a few days / weeks since I can use my headphone for calls but I really do need to calibrate the MS8 since I know there's so much potential in that 12w7 and the rest of the set up!
Read through the link dude but where are those connectors?

Sam
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      01-27-2013, 06:44 PM   #289
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I know what you mean by the time I come home it is dark or just about to go dark and no point.

Does your sat nav work?

as you can see in the pi the 2 round connector thats unplugged off the back of the oem quad lock and clip into harness



the sos connector is the one in the middle above the footwell light that is square in shape just see its connected up because to remove the footwell to make access easier it gets unplugged
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      01-27-2013, 06:47 PM   #290
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you see the above 2 conectors, one just below the light and to the left just make sure they are connected up.

It is up to you if you want to wait but can have a look on the weekend if you got some time its ust time consuming taking the HU out but I reckon you can get it done in a hour

the footwell removal i would say takes 15 mins to unscrew, have a look and screw back up
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      01-28-2013, 01:38 AM   #291
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Thanks Nitesh, will most likely take a look one of these days after work and let you know. Pictures are really helpful, thank you.

I can confirm my SATNAV works absolutely fine and I can also hear the lady speak out loud giving directions. She also comes alive when I press the voice command button so it seems isolated only to the Bluetooth and SOS warning light.

With regards to the footwell diagram you've attached, am I looking to ensure the one directly left of the light (red wired) is connected up as well as the one with 2 arrows?

Sam
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      01-28-2013, 02:45 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudz View Post
Mak's ur man !!!!
Thanks Rudz!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWBimmer View Post


He is the man indeed!!
Sam2, where are youuuuu?

Sorry Sam, missed it. Glad that mistryn has pointed you in the right direction. If that does not work, I have responded to your worries in Mob17 thread though we

Also worth of mentioning that you should have updated the firmware of MS-8 to avoid BT echo issues and I am sure that you may have already done it. (thought it has nothing to do with your current SOS problem).
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      01-28-2013, 02:53 PM   #293
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Sam2,
How would I go about updatiing the MS-8 firmware?
I've spoken to my installer and he is happy to do recheck all the connections but I don't want to take the car back just yet since I wanted to have a go at calibrating the MS8 first... which is all bloody alien to me!!!!
I thought about going out in the car tonight to calibrate but realised I know next to nothing about it so decided to read more and get to grips more with some of the basics...

BTW, is there any way I can change the crossover settings without actually opening the door trim etc... silly Q I know but anyway through the MS8?

I'm finding the Morel Tweeters to be quite lou in comparison to the Mids so I'm thinking of setting the passive x-over to "0". I have a feeling it could be set to "+3db" or whatever it may be.

I need an RTA in all honesty and someone to show / guide me in how to do this as what I don't want is the "airplane noise of death" lollll...

My installer is very old school in that approach so doesn't know much about the MS8 and my agreement with him was that he simply gets everything connected and working and I'll sort the rest.

So here I am now and I didn't realise I needed to know so much technicalities lol...
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      01-28-2013, 04:25 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWBimmer View Post
Sam2,
How would I go about updatiing the MS-8 firmware?
I've spoken to my installer and he is happy to do recheck all the connections but I don't want to take the car back just yet since I wanted to have a go at calibrating the MS8 first... which is all bloody alien to me!!!!
I thought about going out in the car tonight to calibrate but realised I know next to nothing about it so decided to read more and get to grips more with some of the basics...

BTW, is there any way I can change the crossover settings without actually opening the door trim etc... silly Q I know but anyway through the MS8?

I'm finding the Morel Tweeters to be quite lou in comparison to the Mids so I'm thinking of setting the passive x-over to "0". I have a feeling it could be set to "+3db" or whatever it may be.

I need an RTA in all honesty and someone to show / guide me in how to do this as what I don't want is the "airplane noise of death" lollll...

My installer is very old school in that approach so doesn't know much about the MS8 and my agreement with him was that he simply gets everything connected and working and I'll sort the rest.

So here I am now and I didn't realise I needed to know so much technicalities lol...
I read somewhere (cannot remember now) that Morel tweeters work better in 0db (default settings) or -3db settings. If they are already on 0dB settings, leave them alone. Unless you find them harsh ---> then it is worth of keeping them on -3dB settings to keep it nice and soft.

Mob17 can give you more tips on setting up MS-8.
Since you have Jenherts so 200Hz xover setting b/w under seats and mids is a good starting point.

re: updating MS-8 firmware, please check their website and details are given there. It is only applicable if you have built in BT (in your case).

You do not really need RTA to set this up, if you have good ears.
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      01-28-2013, 05:06 PM   #295
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apology I had typed this out on my phone but did not send for some reason, look for the connector that is too the left (arrow putting left and up) just make sure its conencted properly/ the one is the middle I cant remember off the top of my head if there is a conenctor or the whole thing comes out. Just make sure both are secured

If that does not work then try reading the codes and clearing them
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      01-28-2013, 05:31 PM   #296
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Awbimmer: I think you should change the jumper pin on the xover to one pin less than it is now. Quite a few people do this so not to worry its normal due to them being on axis.

I can give you a quick base to test, although i never had a sub in my car. I'd set the Jehnerts at 80hz HP @ 12/24db and 200hz LP @ 24db. Morels HP 200hz @ 24dB. For your sub you can experiment on the LP (up to 80hz i'd say) but you might want to set the subsonic to 20-30 depending on the sub and power going to it.

The key to getting a good calibration is to make sure that when the ms-8 does its sweeps in each channel during calibration, that all channels have the nearest dB level you can. So really you should focus on doing this. Obviously xover points and calib volume will come into play but if you have it all level matched first then you don't have to worry.

But as you have a sub it's going to take a bit more trickery to get it sounding good. It can, and has been, done before. I'd guess that you will benefit from doing one of kaigoss' mods; makkan knows about this.
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      01-29-2013, 04:09 AM   #297
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Quote:
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Awbimmer: I think you should change the jumper pin on the xover to one pin less than it is now. Quite a few people do this so not to worry its normal due to them being on axis.

I can give you a quick base to test, although i never had a sub in my car. I'd set the Jehnerts at 80hz HP @ 12/24db and 200hz LP @ 24db. Morels HP 200hz @ 24dB. For your sub you can experiment on the LP (up to 80hz i'd say) but you might want to set the subsonic to 20-30 depending on the sub and power going to it.

The key to getting a good calibration is to make sure that when the ms-8 does its sweeps in each channel during calibration, that all channels have the nearest dB level you can. So really you should focus on doing this. Obviously xover points and calib volume will come into play but if you have it all level matched first then you don't have to worry.

But as you have a sub it's going to take a bit more trickery to get it sounding good. It can, and has been, done before. I'd guess that you will benefit from doing one of kaigoss' mods; makkan knows about this.

Hey Mo,

Thanks for the message buddy. I Pmíd Kaigoss a couple days back and he also quoted similar frequencies to the above so itíll be interesting to see what I can render from the tweaking. As of now, my ears are getting more and more used to the new sounds and Iím really impressed Ė but there is room for further tweaking! Since I found the Tweeters to be harsh initially, I have turned down the tweeter EQ on my OBC which has resulted in a much better sound of course. I absolutely LOVE how these morels sound (compared to my previous focals) since I remember the Focals to be quite harsh. Best part is, my amp gain is only set to half way mark but still pumps out enough bass. During show season and after I tweak it up, Iím hoping that half way on amp gains or perhaps a tad bit more will be more than enough to draw in a nice crowd, but letís see!

Re: usage of a multimeter, I have one but not the one you sent a link for last night, will a normal multimeter do?

Kaigoss has told me to do exactly what youíve also said in your post above and then to drop him a PM once Iíve reached the Sub part of calibration, he mentions there is trickery involved and itís called the Kai Mod lol! I was also told about the Secret MenuÖ but all this over quite overwhelming and a lot to take it so really need it to be broken down into stages /steps Ė thanks a tonne for helping me out buddy Ė I canít be thankful enough!
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      01-29-2013, 07:28 AM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWBimmer View Post
Hey Mo,

Thanks for the message buddy. I Pm’d Kaigoss a couple days back and he also quoted similar frequencies to the above so it’ll be interesting to see what I can render from the tweaking. As of now, my ears are getting more and more used to the new sounds and I’m really impressed – but there is room for further tweaking! Since I found the Tweeters to be harsh initially, I have turned down the tweeter EQ on my OBCwhich has resulted in a much better sound of course. I absolutely LOVE how these morels sound (compared to my previous focals) since I remember the Focals to be quite harsh. Best part is, my amp gain is only set to half way mark but still pumps out enough bass. During show season and after I tweak it up, I’m hoping that half way on amp gains or perhaps a tad bit more will be more than enough to draw in a nice crowd, but let’s see!
Glad you like them! It should sound better after you have experimented and gone through the different techniques At the moment your gains aren't set properly and your fronts and rears are probably not matched, but as promised i'll send you a pm sometime today to go through that.

Edit: Do you mean you turned the high freq down using the OEM HU? If so, then turn that back to the middle and use the ms-8 31 band eq to cut a bit from the top.

Quote:
Re: usage of a multimeter, I have one but not the one you sent a link for last night, will a normal multimeter do?
Barring the use of a scope, which is the best way to set gains, a multimeter will get you in the ball park but won't show clipping. I'm hoping it will be ok in your case as you will only be using it to mark the maximum safe gain on each channel. The you can play around with the gains and stay below the limit.

To do this you need to play a 1khz sine wave test tone, and measure the ac voltage at the amp output terminals. Not all multimeters will be able to detect this at 1khz, but i know for a fact the model i sent you does. You can try your one that you have now, it might work but if it's a cheap on then i doubt it.

Quote:
Kaigoss has told me to do exactly what you’ve also said in your post above and then to drop him a PM once I’ve reached the Sub part of calibration, he mentions there is trickery involved and it’s called the Kai Mod lol! I was also told about the Secret Menu… but all this over quite overwhelming and a lot to take it so really need it to be broken down into stages /steps – thanks a tonne for helping me out buddy – I can’t be thankful enough!
It probably is a bit overwhelming as you have been given a lot of info which I have learnt over a longer period of time. But the main thing is not to worry it will be fine.
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      01-29-2013, 07:59 AM   #299
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Mo - any chance you can send me link for multimeter as i have a cheap one and need a good one
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      01-29-2013, 08:04 AM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistryn View Post
Mo - any chance you can send me link for multimeter as i have a cheap one and need a good one
Pm sent
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      01-29-2013, 09:58 AM   #301
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Thanks Mo - will look forward to the guide you send across! I do notice slight clipping at high vols at the moment but as you say, it's all probably out of tone at the moment! My installer has said the Xovers were set to "0" so I'm really hoping that is the case, but I'll turn up the EQs on my car HU and will fiddle witht he MS-8's 31 band EQ in due course.. I'm just saving my ears from bleeding for the time being

I've got a bundle of multimeters I'm sure one of them will prove to be useful so will have a dig through that. Any cues on how I can play a 1Khz sinewave.. I'm going to take my time, read and attempt the calibration after understanding what I'm getting into.

Want to know whether I should install my M3 wheel first before calibration of the MS-8 or if that doesn't really matter?! I ask since I'll have to disconnect the battery terminals (will either -ve or +ve do, or must it be both?), I don't wan't to calibrate the MS-8 first, then go installe my wheel but find that as I've disconnected the batterey, I've lost all my settings lol.

S
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      01-29-2013, 10:14 AM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWBimmer View Post
Thanks Mo - will look forward to the guide you send across! I do notice slight clipping at high vols at the moment but as you say, it's all probably out of tone at the moment! My installer has said the Xovers were set to "0" so I'm really hoping that is the case, but I'll turn up the EQs on my car HU and will fiddle witht he MS-8's 31 band EQ in due course.. I'm just saving my ears from bleeding for the time being

I've got a bundle of multimeters I'm sure one of them will prove to be useful so will have a dig through that. Any cues on how I can play a 1Khz sinewave.. I'm going to take my time, read and attempt the calibration after understanding what I'm getting into.

Want to know whether I should install my M3 wheel first before calibration of the MS-8 or if that doesn't really matter?! I ask since I'll have to disconnect the battery terminals (will either -ve or +ve do, or must it be both?), I don't wan't to calibrate the MS-8 first, then go installe my wheel but find that as I've disconnected the batterey, I've lost all my settings lol.

S
You can download a sine wave and burn it on a cd and play it through the ms-8. Just go into the hidden menu and select "pass through mode" and then put the cd in. This will ensure that the sine wave isn't processed. For the underseats amp gain i'd use a 200 or 300hz sine wave, and a 50-80hz one for the sub. Just make sure you disconnect the relevant speaker!

The disconnection of the battery won't remove your ms-8 settings

I think the first thing to do is to use to test tone/multimeter to work out what position you can turn the gains up to. Then level match (see pm). Then after this you might need to do some of kaigoss' mods to make it sound even better, but i'm not sure on them as i didnt have a sub with the ms-8. I don't think its too tricky though.
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      01-29-2013, 04:03 PM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post


To do this you need to play a 1khz sine wave test tone, and measure the ac voltage at the amp output terminals. Not all multimeters will be able to detect this at 1khz, but i know for a fact the model i sent you does. You can try your one that you have now, it might work but if it's a cheap on then i doubt it.
Mob17
I guess somebody has given you wrong information or somebody at some stage has perceived it wrong.

Drivers (speakers) are being driven by AC current. So, IMHO, with voltmeter you will be checking the AC current and not frquency of sound.
If you do not get AC current at 1Khz, then simply amp is not abled to produced those signals or xovers are not set in that range.

Type of voltmeter becomes irrelevant here as far as it can measure AC voltage within the abilities of drivers / amps range (Lets say upto 20V for 100W driver with 4 ohm amp).

If I am wrong, please correct me.
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      01-29-2013, 04:22 PM   #304
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Quote:
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Mob17
I guess somebody has given you wrong information or somebody at some stage has perceived it wrong.

Drivers (speakers) are being driven by AC current. So, IMHO, with voltmeter you will be checking the AC current and not frquency of sound.
If you do not get AC current at 1Khz, then simply amp is not abled to produced those signals or xovers are not set in that range.

Type of voltmeter becomes irrelevant here as far as it can measure AC voltage within the abilities of drivers / amps range (Lets say upto 20V for 100W driver with 4 ohm amp).

If I am wrong, please correct me.
Yes you will be measuring AC voltage and not the frequency. Think you misunderstood me as i said you'll need a multimeter that can measure ac voltage at 1khz. My point was that the multimeter needs 1khz in its range, i.e able to measure ac voltage at that frequency. Let me explain.

AC voltage is voltage going from positive to negative, i.e alternating current. So it will have a frequency. This is how the frequency of a test tone is reproduced in the driver:
Higher the frequency of the test tone --> the faster the voltage will change from positive to negative at amp output--> faster the driver cone will alternate --> higher audible frequency produced.

Some multimeters can not measure really fast changing voltage, such as 1khz. So you need one that is able to.

Hope thats clearer now.
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      01-29-2013, 04:29 PM   #305
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Quote:
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Yes you will be measuring AC voltage and not the frequency. Think you misunderstood me as i said you'll need a multimeter that can measure ac voltage at 1khz. My point was that the multimeter needs 1khz in its range, i.e able to measure ac voltage at that frequency. Let me explain.

AC voltage is voltage going from positive to negative, i.e alternating current. So it will have a frequency. This is how the frequency of a test tone is reproduced in the driver:
Higher the frequency of the test tone --> the faster the voltage will change from positive to negative at amp output--> faster the driver cone will alternate --> higher audible frequency produced.

Some multimeters can not measure really fast changing voltage, such as 1khz. So you need one that is able to.

Hope thats clearer now.
Got it. That make sense. Funny, that I never thought that way and my voltmeter worked at 1Khz without any trouble.

Appreciate your explanataion
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      01-29-2013, 04:41 PM   #306
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Quote:
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Got it. That make sense. Funny, that I never thought that way and my voltmeter worked at 1Khz without any trouble.

Appreciate your explanataion
No worries it was the same with me! I just bought a cheap meter and thought job done. Only found out when i got a zero reading lol

From what i remember cheap meters can measure at lowish freq, up to 400-500hz i think.
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      01-29-2013, 05:28 PM   #307
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You guys sure you're not Power Electronics / SMPS Design Engineers? I recruit in that domain so hence the familiarity with the technical jargon lol. I'll check my multimeters over the weekend - will it have on it 1khz in writing? How easily can it be identified if the multimeter is Khz compatible?

Small Update: Just threw on some White Angel Eyes and I'm totally chuffed! I used to think yellow rings were awsome.. yes, probably during day since they're more visible, but since I do little daytime driving, Ithought why not switch to these '1 LED per side' bulbs which I recently bought off the forum and love the look! May decide to get the '2 LEDs per side' in due course.. not my exterior is all white bright in the night

I took a pic but the Rings can't really be seen using my iPhone so will get a better pic up soon.
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      01-31-2013, 07:54 AM   #308
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Quote:
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You guys sure you're not Power Electronics / SMPS Design Engineers? I recruit in that domain so hence the familiarity with the technical jargon lol. I'll check my multimeters over the weekend - will it have on it 1khz in writing? How easily can it be identified if the multimeter is Khz compatible?
Haha definitely not no engineer You should bribe one of your people with a job to help you then!!

I don't think it will have a range of frequencies on the meter. Most likely you wil have to obtain the data sheet for that meter. It should say on there.

P.S Email sent
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