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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Pre-Vargas Stage 2 Dyno: GIAC Stage 2 race



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      01-31-2013, 07:23 PM   #1
turb0mike
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Pre-Vargas Stage 2 Dyno: GIAC Stage 2 race

The time has come for me to take my beloved 335 up to the bay this weekend and drop her off at Tony's establishment for a lung transplant. I have been in constant contact with Tony and he has been nothing but a PLEASURE to deal with; quick responses, knowledgable information, and a willingness to meet me on the weekend to accommodate my schedule. I will be up in San Francisco for the regional BMW CCA conference because I was just elected to the board as the "Activities Chair." I will be letting everyone know about upcoming events!

Anyways, before dropping off my car I reminded myself that you forum type LOVE your numbers. So I contacted Thomas @ GIAC and quickly scheduled a couple dyno pulls for early in the week. This way, we have a clear idea of the delta net gains (WHICH ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT NUMBERS) of the Vargas after the installation and tune. While I was at GIAC, I met with Andrew Ciraulo, the brains behind N54 tuning and numerous RWD track records from Berk, HPA, and Evolution Racewerks. The guy is a genius and was kind enough to explain how the tune works compared with piggys and other such modifications. He explained that I might see relatively low numbers at their "new" facility for a number of reasons. 1) Mustang Dynos always read lower than dynojets 2) This will be a loaded run, compensating a set of variables and pressure applied to the calculations (so numbers might be scewed 10whp or so) and 3) the dyno room was literally 60 degrees. You might think that 60 degree whether would be an ideal condition, but Andrew explained that a tune, such as GIAC, works in a fashion that monitors IATs and regulates boost accordingly. If the tune can make the same 'target power' with less boost in colder conditions, than you won't see peak boost. It is a conditional protocol that makes for a smoother and more stable drive (which is what ecu flashes are known for). This is why I saw my numbers jump 5whp every single pull we did. The ecu was getting acclimated to its surroundings.

I'm sorry that the explanation sounded more like an excuse, but I just wanted to preface the numbers. I do not have my previous dyno records but these are the results...

Previous DynoJet:
420whp (with 110oct)
430lbs-ft

GIAC Mustang Dyno:
377whp (corrected around 410whp)
404lbs-ft (corrected around 430lbs-ft)
^^^^^In warmer temperatures I would have seen even higher numbers, probably around 420 & 440...

VIDEO:


PICTURES:


Had to remove the rear diffusor to hook up the cables, lol.

My previous DynoJet pull was also on race gas + 50/50 meth. The GIAC run was on 91/e85 at a 50/50 mixture.

Bottom line is that there are SOOOOO many factors in calculating dyno numbers. Some dynos read a lot less than others. Tunes have to get acclimated to different weather situations, not just 2 pulls on a dyno, but constant WOT and abuse. I have smoked e60 M5s, 500awhp subi's and many others, so I really don't care if people think the numbers are low.

Andrew will be offering his "general" tune for the RB/Vargas setup, as well as a custom "one off" super aggressive tune for myself. He will set a target boost instead of a target power, so I will always hit boost no matter what temp (due to my insane cooling modifications). I will be posting both results in around 2 weeks.

I am super excited about the hybrids and I will, hopefully, be the first to post results!!! Stay tuned and subscribe!!!!!
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      01-31-2013, 07:45 PM   #2
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you are the man
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      01-31-2013, 09:37 PM   #3
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Very cool, will be cool to see the vargas stage 2's at work!
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      01-31-2013, 10:13 PM   #4
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I'm very interested in seeing the results. GL and Godspeed!
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      01-31-2013, 10:20 PM   #5
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Nice... Good luck man.
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      01-31-2013, 11:39 PM   #6
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Awesome! Good luck and enjoy
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      02-01-2013, 12:51 AM   #7
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So this was done on the Vargas stage 2's vs your dynojet numbers which were on stock turbos?!?!?!?!?! uhh....... Not understanding
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      02-01-2013, 12:59 AM   #8
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the stock turbos can make 420+ rwhp with meth and race
RB turbo can make 400+ rwhp on pump with jb4 map2

how many psi u run for the vargas S2 ?
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      02-01-2013, 01:04 AM   #9
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clearly some people have trouble reading...PRE means before. aka no he is not running Vargas turbos yet.

Thanks for the numbers! Hope to see the Vargas #'s soon.
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      02-01-2013, 01:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRetep View Post
clearly some people have trouble reading...PRE means before. aka no he is not running Vargas turbos yet.

Thanks for the numbers! Hope to see the Vargas #'s soon.
This. Nice to see that you're getting them installed soon. That means the betas are ready and the orders should be shopping soon. Thanks for posting the dynos.
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      02-01-2013, 02:03 AM   #11
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lol I guess I got a little excited when I saw the thread and didnt read the first "pre"..LOL!! I'm kinda excited what kind of numbers that the stage 2's are going to be putting down considering there targeting the RB market but wont cost as much. Quality looks amazing on some of the pictures I have seen so far so even though I love the RB's im still very curious if the stage 2's are going to be better or compatible with the RB set up.

So OP, were your dynojet numbers where you put down 420whp and 430 torque on the same GIAC tune you were running but just in there new facility (new dyno)? Yea Mustang dynos do read substantially lower than dynojets in my opinion as well.

Also, what made you go with GIAC with your upcoming new Vargas stage 2 setup instead of a more streamline flash like the COBB? Just curious? I know GIAC has been doing flashes for years but on the N54 with upgraded turbos dont you think that a COBB or even a piggy would have been a better option? Especially running E85 mix? I havent checked out what GIAC has to offer these days but maybe I should go and do that to see if something new has come along that I dont know about... Cant wait to see your numbers man and congrats!! Get ready to go really fast buddy
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      02-01-2013, 02:06 AM   #12
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A load targeting tune may run more boost in warmer weather but it will not make more power. It is running more boost to make up for the less dense charge air. Cold weather will always result in better numbers(with everything else being equal.)

What i'm very interested in is where you mentioned GIAC is going to write you a boost targeting tune... that's A LOT of DME logic to change.
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      02-01-2013, 04:20 AM   #13
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Looking forward to seeing your review and impressions and the numbers once you get your car back, Mike! How long will you be here in the bay for? Let's grab some drinks!
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      02-01-2013, 07:53 AM   #14
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Very Nice..
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      02-01-2013, 09:13 AM   #15
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Nice!

Btw, do you have a thread made about your exhaust mod? Saw the fender width one which was awesome
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      02-01-2013, 01:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostaholic786 View Post
lol I guess I got a little excited when I saw the thread and didnt read the first "pre"..LOL!! I'm kinda excited what kind of numbers that the stage 2's are going to be putting down considering there targeting the RB market but wont cost as much. Quality looks amazing on some of the pictures I have seen so far so even though I love the RB's im still very curious if the stage 2's are going to be better or compatible with the RB set up.

So OP, were your dynojet numbers where you put down 420whp and 430 torque on the same GIAC tune you were running but just in there new facility (new dyno)? Yea Mustang dynos do read substantially lower than dynojets in my opinion as well.

Also, what made you go with GIAC with your upcoming new Vargas stage 2 setup instead of a more streamline flash like the COBB? Just curious? I know GIAC has been doing flashes for years but on the N54 with upgraded turbos dont you think that a COBB or even a piggy would have been a better option? Especially running E85 mix? I havent checked out what GIAC has to offer these days but maybe I should go and do that to see if something new has come along that I dont know about... Cant wait to see your numbers man and congrats!! Get ready to go really fast buddy
Yes, the 420whp was the same tune on a dynojet back a year or so ago. I went with GIAC because Harold @ HPA convinced me. They have a track record (literally) with HPA, Berk, and Evolution, so I wanted a tune that could handle a beating on the track and be smooth and predictable. In terms of COBB being more streamline I am not sure what you mean. GIAC releases a "general" tune that is relatively conservative. They have had 0 issues with any cars (to my knowledge). I will be going with them because I trust Andrew to tune my car and I will be getting a one-off dyno tune to take specific advantage of my car. Kind of a thank you gift from GIAC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ∆nema View Post
A load targeting tune may run more boost in warmer weather but it will not make more power. It is running more boost to make up for the less dense charge air. Cold weather will always result in better numbers(with everything else being equal.)

What i'm very interested in is where you mentioned GIAC is going to write you a boost targeting tune... that's A LOT of DME logic to change.
I understand about the targeting tune still running better in the cold (which I agree), but it was odd to see my numbers go up every single run. The guys said that if I had kept doing some runs that I would have seen my HP numbers relative to my old ones. I don't know how you would account for that? From what I gathered from Andrew, he is going to make a boost targeting/load targeting hybrid tune. Half of the stuff he said went over my head, but he wants to really push the limits on the one-off to see what can truly be made.

Last edited by turb0mike; 02-01-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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      02-01-2013, 01:24 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mahhvinn View Post
Looking forward to seeing your review and impressions and the numbers once you get your car back, Mike! How long will you be here in the bay for? Let's grab some drinks!
I will be there through Monday morning! Friday/Saturday in Burlingame and then SF for Sunday! I'll PM you my number see if we can meet up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.G. View Post
Nice!

Btw, do you have a thread made about your exhaust mod? Saw the fender width one which was awesome
It is just straight pipes center exit. I'm working on another design for a little better air-flow.
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      02-01-2013, 01:35 PM   #18
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Awesome thread. Cant wait to see the figures. I am local to vargas and will likely be getting a set of their turbo's over the RB's.
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      02-01-2013, 02:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turb0mike View Post
I understand about the targeting tune still running better in the cold (which I agree), but it was odd to see my numbers go up every single run. The guys said that if I had kept doing some runs that I would have seen my HP numbers relative to my old ones. I don't know how you would account for that? From what I gathered from Andrew, he is going to make a boost targeting/load targeting hybrid tune. Half of the stuff he said went over my head, but he wants to really push the limits on the one-off to see what can truly be made.
Did you flash over to the racemap shortly before hitting the rollers? The DME will go through an adaption process that takes a few pulls.
Also, normally, the 2nd or 3rd pull will be the best numbers you see.
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      02-01-2013, 02:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ∆nema View Post
Did you flash over to the racemap shortly before hitting the rollers? The DME will go through an adaption process that takes a few pulls.
Also, normally, the 2nd or 3rd pull will be the best numbers you see.
Nope, however i had put e85 in the car that morning and drove normally to GIAC. No WOT or anything. The ECU could have been adapting to the slight fueling change. There are a whole host of things that could have contributed; too many variables to consider. O well, haha. 377whp 335i keeping up with GTRs and GT3s around a track has a nice ring to it.
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      02-01-2013, 04:44 PM   #21
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holy WING batman!
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      02-01-2013, 05:00 PM   #22
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Nice!!!
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