[sohlman]

I looked into this with my car as I find the rear end has a tendency to bounce on bumpy corners.
Both kevin Bird Birds and Chris Rositer AC Schnitzer guaranteed their work and would put car back to standard if you we're not happy.

Both where about the same price fitted. Both had test cars. I would pay them both a visit.

Looked at BMW performance a touch cheaper and the koni fsd kit cheaper again and oe replacement so would not affect insurance.

I would steer clear of anything that is adjustable. Theory is good, but the reality is you will have 1000's of combinations that won't be right and only one that works.

[jjellyneck]

Originally Posted by Techevo

I'm up the road from you in Bedford and have an E91 with all M3 bits, H&R rear bar and Ohlins with custom spring rates. I ran with the M sport standard stuff for a while, then upgraded to Koni yellows and eibach springs, then the Ohlins.

I'm really into chassis setup and work out the suspension frequencies and such to work out the spring rates I want etc.

I also sprint a self built 700ps Evo 6 thus the E91 tow car!

Maybe worth while meeting up and you can try my car and I can help you decide. I still have the Koni's and eibachs which had 1000 miles of use!

What is your opinion of the Koni with Eibach...both ride and overall handling?

[mob17]

Originally Posted by sohlman

I looked into this with my car as I find the rear end has a tendency to bounce on bumpy corners.
Both kevin Bird Birds and Chris Rositer AC Schnitzer guaranteed their work and would put car back to standard if you we're not happy.

Both where about the same price fitted. Both had test cars. I would pay them both a visit.

Looked at BMW performance a touch cheaper and the koni fsd kit cheaper again and oe replacement so would not affect insurance.

I would steer clear of anything that is adjustable. Theory is good, but the reality is you will have 1000's of combinations that won't be right and only one that works.

Agree with you about the rear. With RFTs its scary at times!

I have been to see kevin, around the time this thread was started. He took me around in his E92 but i think i might need another ride in it.

Regarding insurance, are you saying if i went for the BMW kit that i wouldn't need to tell my insurance company, or i would but they won't increase my premium?

[Techevo]

Originally Posted by jjellyneck

What is your opinion of the Koni with Eibach...both ride and overall handling?

The Eibach springs are approx 145/450lbs and very similar to standard rates but slightly lower ride height.

The Koni yellows set at the midway damping adjustment gave very good ride quality, much improved over the standard M-sport setup, but compromised for ultimate handling due to the softish spring rates.

A very good cheap upgrade over standard IMO.

[Techevo]

Originally Posted by sohlman

I would steer clear of anything that is adjustable. Theory is good, but the reality is you will have 1000's of combinations that won't be right and only one that works.

And the downside to non-adjustables is the inability to tweek the set-up to suit the individual.

Handling and ride quality is very personal and subjective. What one person thinks is compliant, another will find too hard etc

Also, different weight and size wheels and tyres, and different models, i.e. pre/post LCI have different track, vehicle weight etc so will have a different requirement in regards to optimum damping due to changed motion ratios and unsprung weights.

Another factor is if you upgrade anti-roll bars, this will effectively change the spring rates and require different damping.

[sohlman]

Originally Posted by Techevo

And the downside to non-adjustables is the inability to tweek the set-up to suit the individual.

Handling and ride quality is very personal and subjective. What one person thinks is compliant, another will find too hard etc

Also, different weight and size wheels and tyres, and different models, i.e. pre/post LCI have different track, vehicle weight etc so will have a different requirement in regards to optimum damping due to changed motion ratios and unsprung weights.

Another factor is if you upgrade anti-roll bars, this will effectively change the spring rates and require different damping.

All true, but companies like BMW, Birds, Hartge, Schnitzer spent 1000's developing suspension systems that work for a particular model of car with engineering teams, professional drivers etc. My point is that a normal bloke with an adjustable system and armed with a screw driver and the but dyno in all likelihood won't get it right.

[Techevo]

Originally Posted by sohlman

All true, but companies like BMW, Birds, Hartge, Schnitzer spent 1000's developing suspension systems that work for a particular model of car with engineering teams, professional drivers etc. My point is that a normal bloke with an adjustable system and armed with a screw driver and the but dyno in all likelihood won't get it right.

I agree, the average Joe blogs can find it difficult to setup adjustable dampers even with a simple 1 way adjustment, but if you spend some time to understand what is happening and how adjustments effect the car and butt dyno, they can give you a car much closer to what you personally want. It's down to the individual.

On the other hand, manufacturers don't always get it right even with so called experts and plenty of money invested in testing and development.

[ciomas]

Originally Posted by mob17

Had a slight chang of circumstances. I sold my 320D and the ACS springs and have now got an E92 335D

So is the Öhlins kit worth the premium over the Birds kit? Would you advise to only buy them direct from Öhlins or are internet retailers ok, in terms of after care support? Also, the Birds kit markets itself as being designed for UK roads, how does the Öhlins deal with this? And finally, how does the Öhlins kit compare to BC BR coilovers which are a lot cheaper?

Many thanks

Hehe, thats great news a lot of work and testing went into the development of the birds kit. In my oppinion it is a very well balanced product. However i do think ohlins is a much better base product. I do think it requires a good choice of springs. I wasnt fuly satisfied with the ones suplied with the kit. Ohlins will deliver the kit with the springs of your choice.

[mob17]

Originally Posted by ciomas

Hehe, thats great news a lot of work and testing went into the development of the birds kit. In my oppinion it is a very well balanced product. However i do think ohlins is a much better base product. I do think it requires a good choice of springs. I wasnt fuly satisfied with the ones suplied with the kit. Ohlins will deliver the kit with the springs of your choice.

Thanks, still chuffed with the 35 after 2-3 weeks!

I think i have made my decision on what kit to go for when i do upgrade, and the Ohlins kit is my preference at the moment. However i will probably have to wait a few weeks before i can commit.

Any advice on where to purchase? The best price i have seen is £1710 from BG Motorsports here in Northampton. I think they are a damper workshop and an Ohlins dealer, so i do feel comfortable with them.

I have read a few threads on the springs, especially the swift ones. Am i right in thinking that the ohlins springs are better for predominantly road use, and the swifts for mainly track use? Also what were your reasons for not liking the supplied springs?

[mob17]

I went to see techevo today, brilliant guy and a true enthusiast. His workshop is full of interesting drivetrain/suspension components

Took me around in his E91, which had the Ohlins kit and M3 bits, and i was nearly about to cling on! I guess i am used to the awful m-sport suspension, and my brain just thought it's going to get hairy!

The car was amazing. It really did feel like it was running on rails and nothing could unsettle it, very impressive. I also had a drive and the damping is amazing. When going over speed humps i would normally slow right down, but in his you can carry on like its not there, and still the car feels like it's landing on a pillow! I can't comprehend how that is possible whilst also being firm at the same time in other scenarios.

Admittingly he did replace a few suspension bits, so some of the improvements were probably down to that, but the damping is much better. It's how BMWs should come out of the factory. Oh and this was on a quite firm setting as well, 8 clicks from the max hardness!

[ciomas]

My main problem with the ohlins springs was with the rear. They were so soft my tyres were rubbing with 20mm spacers on. Not to mention what was happening when I had some luggage in the trunk.

Ive updeted my front suspension and the rear subframe bushes with the m3 bits as well. It does not change much in terms of comfort. Improves the turn in a bit and keeps the rear very planted. None of that jumpy twitchy rear track nonsense.

Techevo, what spring rates are you currently running, if you dont mind me asking?

[mob17]

Originally Posted by ciomas

Ive updeted my front suspension and the rear subframe bushes with the m3 bits as well. It does not change much in terms of comfort. Improves the turn in a bit and keeps the rear very planted. None of that jumpy twitchy rear track nonsense.

I also want to replace the rear subframe bushes to get rid of the awful twitch. Any ideas of the best place to get genuine new M3 ones? And what other parts would you recommend me replacing on the rear whilst i do the bushes?

[ciomas]

Originally Posted by mob17

I also want to replace the rear subframe bushes to get rid of the awful twitch. Any ideas of the best place to get genuine new M3 ones? And what other parts would you recommend me replacing on the rear whilst i do the bushes?

I just ordered them from bmw. Well the rear diff ofcourse it should be the other way round, change the bushes as youre upgrading the diff

[mob17]

Originally Posted by ciomas

I just ordered them from bmw. Well the rear diff ofcourse it should be the other way round, change the bushes as youre upgrading the diff

Haha yeah if i could i would in a heartbeat! Maybe in the future...

Does £200 sound right for the 4 rear subframe bushes?

[GreekboyD]

It will cost you closer to $300 for all 4 M3 subframe bushings.

EDIT: Just noticed you're from the UK so ya, around 200 Euros.

[ciomas]

which is exactly the same price ;]

[ciomas]

Originally Posted by Techevo

I agree, the average Joe blogs can find it difficult to setup adjustable dampers even with a simple 1 way adjustment, but if you spend some time to understand what is happening and how adjustments effect the car and butt dyno, they can give you a car much closer to what you personally want. It's down to the individual.

On the other hand, manufacturers don't always get it right even with so called experts and plenty of money invested in testing and development.

I'm curious what spring rates you are currently running.

[Techevo]

Originally Posted by ciomas

I'm curious what spring rates you are currently running.

Standard Ohlins fronts, 343lbs, uprated 672lbs rear.

I've just received some new Swift springs from Harold@Auto weeks (Thanks!) 400lbs front, 800lbs rear as the rates above are still too soft for me. Will fit in within the next month.

No revalving is required with theses uprated springs.

[jjellyneck]

Originally Posted by Techevo

Standard Ohlins fronts, 343lbs, uprated 672lbs rear.

I've just received some new Swift springs from Harold@Auto weeks (Thanks!) 400lbs front, 800lbs rear as the rates above are still too soft for me. Will fit in within the next month.

No revalving is required with theses uprated springs.

Wow, no revalving with those higher spring rates? Those dampers must be excellent. Even those standard spring rates that you mention seem fairly high.
I remember Ohlins from many years ago when racing snowmobiles in the upper midwest. They had the best suspensions even 25 years ago...though expensive and generally not at all common.

[ciomas]

Originally Posted by Techevo

Standard Ohlins fronts, 343lbs, uprated 672lbs rear.

I've just received some new Swift springs from Harold@Auto weeks (Thanks!) 400lbs front, 800lbs rear as the rates above are still too soft for me. Will fit in within the next month.

No revalving is required with theses uprated springs.

see, thats the setup I've been running for a while now (harolds 400/800). I've been having second thoughts. It might be useful to meet up and compare..

[cvc 22349a]

Originally Posted by Techevo

Standard Ohlins fronts, 343lbs, uprated 672lbs rear.

I've just received some new Swift springs from Harold@Auto weeks (Thanks!) 400lbs front, 800lbs rear as the rates above are still too soft for me. Will fit in within the next month.

No revalving is required with theses uprated springs.

Did Ohlins tell you that or your retailer?

[ciomas]

hehe, I think I know the answer to this one ;]