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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Engine flooded question..



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      02-03-2013, 11:02 AM   #1
sy2767
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Engine flooded question..

Back in the old days of carburetors ( and some fuel injection) cars would become flooded (with gas) and would not start, one remedy would be to hold the accelerator pedal to the floor while cranking the engine to clear out the fuel. My question is would this procedure work on a 2006 and newer BMW? I don't think it would because of valvetronic and stated so on another car forum and was attacked because they say im wrong........ am i wrong? I know this might be the wrong forum for this but no one ever reads anything in the N/A engine section.... LOL
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      02-03-2013, 11:04 AM   #2
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Our accelerators are fly by wire, there is no hard connection to how your fuel is injected. Your ECU does all the thinking for you. whether or not you've got the pedal pegged or not won't do anything until after the vehicle has been started.
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      02-03-2013, 11:22 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbillytalent View Post
Our accelerators are fly by wire, there is no hard connection to how your fuel is injected. Your ECU does all the thinking for you. whether or not you've got the pedal pegged or not won't do anything until after the vehicle has been started.
I know this, but some drive by wire cars will open the butterfly in the throttle body while the engine is cranking because of the signal it is receiving from the accelerator pedal sensor allowing air to enter the engine, they think BMW's operate on this theory but our cars don't use a conventional throttle body, valvetronic takes the place of the throttle body in allowing a metered amount of air to enter the engine. When we push on the accelerator pedal in our cars it actually controls the valvetrain and not the TB butterfly.
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      02-03-2013, 12:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sy2767 View Post
Back in the old days of carburetors ( and some fuel injection) cars would become flooded (with gas) and would not start, one remedy would be to hold the accelerator pedal to the floor while cranking the engine to clear out the fuel. My question is would this procedure work on a 2006 and newer BMW? I don't think it would because of valvetronic and stated so on another car forum and was attacked because they say im wrong........ am i wrong? I know this might be the wrong forum for this but no one ever reads anything in the N/A engine section.... LOL
You are 100% correct.
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      02-03-2013, 04:11 PM   #5
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You are 100% correct.
Thank you...
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      02-03-2013, 05:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sy2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbillytalent View Post
Our accelerators are fly by wire, there is no hard connection to how your fuel is injected. Your ECU does all the thinking for you. whether or not you've got the pedal pegged or not won't do anything until after the vehicle has been started.
I know this, but some drive by wire cars will open the butterfly in the throttle body while the engine is cranking because of the signal it is receiving from the accelerator pedal sensor allowing air to enter the engine, they think BMW's operate on this theory but our cars don't use a conventional throttle body, valvetronic takes the place of the throttle body in allowing a metered amount of air to enter the engine. When we push on the accelerator pedal in our cars it actually controls the valvetrain and not the TB butterfly.
I know this is true for the N52, but I don't know about the N54. I thought the N54's had more of a traditional TB the was drive-by-wire controlled. Could be wrong though.
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      02-03-2013, 05:32 PM   #7
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on an n52 theres something called a clear flood mode which will do what you speak of...never really tried it on an n54 though.
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      02-04-2013, 12:10 AM   #8
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You guys are thinking about it all wrong. The valvetronic motor is the throttle body(for all intensive purposes),the n52/k the throttle body is only for vacuum. It does not function as a traditional throttle body. To the OP's question if I get one that is all flooded out I hold it to the floor. Whether it really does anything. Idk but it does seem to clear them out faster.
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      02-04-2013, 12:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centexE9x View Post
You guys are thinking about it all wrong. The valvetronic motor is the throttle body for the n52/k the throttle body is only for vacuum. It does not function as a traditional throttle body. To the OP's question if I get one that is all flooded out I hold it to the floor. Whether it really does anything. Idk but it does seem to clear them out faster.
Pretty much says what i stated above, not to quote myself but...... quote" valvetronic takes the place of the throttle body in allowing a metered amount of air to enter the engine. When we push on the accelerator pedal in our cars it actually controls the valvetrain and not the TB butterfly."


i searched on the net and here and can't seem to find anything related to my question.
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      02-04-2013, 12:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sy2767 View Post
Pretty much says what i stated above, not to quote myself but...... quote" valvetronic takes the place of the throttle body in allowing a metered amount of air to enter the engine. When we push on the accelerator pedal in our cars it actually controls the valvetrain and not the TB butterfly."


i searched on the net and here and can't seem to find anything related to my question.
I hold em to the floor to clear them out. It doesn't happen too often on a n52/k. So I can't remember if it made a big diff off the top of my head. It's fuel injection, so if its flooding for any reason something is wrong.
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      02-04-2013, 05:59 AM   #11
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You cannot flood a carb engine simply by holding the throttle open and cranking the starter. Carb engine's only flood due to incorrect setting of the metering needle or by the buffon behind the wheel stomping up and down on the accelerator pedal, actuating the accelerator pump in the carb, causing excess fuel to be delivered.

As EFI systems do not have an accelerator pump as such, you can't flood the engine unless there's something radically wrong with it.
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      02-04-2013, 07:42 AM   #12
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would it help to remove the air filter while attempting the start? Im sure your air filter is fine, but might be worth a check...and it may let just a little more air in...

Also, you never know what you will find when you remove a few things off the top of the motor and visually and physically check all injector, fuel, air, and vacuum hoses, connectors, ect....

JP
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      02-04-2013, 01:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethanderall View Post
You cannot flood a carb engine simply by holding the throttle open and cranking the starter. Carb engine's only flood due to incorrect setting of the metering needle or by the buffon behind the wheel stomping up and down on the accelerator pedal, actuating the accelerator pump in the carb, causing excess fuel to be delivered.

As EFI systems do not have an accelerator pump as such, you can't flood the engine unless there's something radically wrong with it.
Actually you can flood a EFI car especially in the cold. I assume it doesn't get very cold in AU. In fact my wife's Nissan flooded the other day when it was -32 C and her X-Trail was outside for a couple of days.

On an EFI car, holding the pedal all the way down tells the ECU to not run the injectors at all to help with a flooded engine.
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      10-08-2013, 01:07 AM   #14
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Bump. In desperate need. I was trying to crank the car after disconnecting the ECU and it wouldn't start. Someone told me the engine is probably flooded. Could that happen on an N52. From the sounds if you guys seem to be saying no.
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      10-08-2013, 01:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleridge View Post
Bump. In desperate need. I was trying to crank the car after disconnecting the ECU and it wouldn't start. Someone told me the engine is probably flooded. Could that happen on an N52. From the sounds if you guys seem to be saying no.
Why would this make you assume it is flooded? If you just had the ECU unplugged, and now it won't start, my guess off the top of my head would be something was not hooked up correctly and now you're lacking either fuel or spark.
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      10-08-2013, 08:23 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Viktimize View Post
Why would this make you assume it is flooded? If you just had the ECU unplugged, and now it won't start, my guess off the top of my head would be something was not hooked up correctly and now you're lacking either fuel or spark.
I may have left this out. I tried to crank it like 12 times testing pin configurations. pins 21 and 22 on the n52 are empty and I was trying those. It started at one point but ran really rough so I turned it off immediately. I was told the continuous attempts to start the car could have flooded it. I only took out 2 pins from the dme and they are back in the right spot but it still won't start. Can't figure it out.

these are my codes

DME,DME Number: 07602220
2A31,4,Valvetronic, eccentric shaft sensor: guide
2A32,4,Valvetronic, eccentric shaft sensor: reference
2CF9,1,Throttle-valve potentiometer 1
2CFA,2,Throttle-valve potentiometer 2
2A47,8,Valvetronic, eccentric shaft sensor: plausibility
2D09,4,Throttle valve
2A85,4,Exhaust VANOS, activation
2AA9,4,Variable intake system, servomotor 2: activation
2A9A,1,Camshaft sensor, inlet, signal
2E84,4,Electric coolant pump, communication

Last edited by mapleridge; 10-08-2013 at 10:00 AM.
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      10-08-2013, 02:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleridge View Post
I may have left this out. I tried to crank it like 12 times testing pin configurations. pins 21 and 22 on the n52 are empty and I was trying those. It started at one point but ran really rough so I turned it off immediately. I was told the continuous attempts to start the car could have flooded it. I only took out 2 pins from the dme and they are back in the right spot but it still won't start. Can't figure it out.

these are my codes

DME,DME Number: 07602220
2A31,4,Valvetronic, eccentric shaft sensor: guide
2A32,4,Valvetronic, eccentric shaft sensor: reference
2CF9,1,Throttle-valve potentiometer 1
2CFA,2,Throttle-valve potentiometer 2
2A47,8,Valvetronic, eccentric shaft sensor: plausibility
2D09,4,Throttle valve
2A85,4,Exhaust VANOS, activation
2AA9,4,Variable intake system, servomotor 2: activation
2A9A,1,Camshaft sensor, inlet, signal
2E84,4,Electric coolant pump, communication

Hard to say, but those codes are probably to do with you pulling pins out and messing around, so I would try clearing them. If you were just cranking and not starting, and you never pulled the fuel pump fuse, then yes you could be flooded.
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      10-08-2013, 03:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viktimize View Post
Hard to say, but those codes are probably to do with you pulling pins out and messing around, so I would try clearing them. If you were just cranking and not starting, and you never pulled the fuel pump fuse, then yes you could be flooded.
Clearing them didn't work.

I think the codes are from pulling the connector in the DME. I never touched the pins for those units. Aside from the throttle errors which are from resetting adaptations, I believe everything is on the same connector. X60007 which is the grey connector beside the one with the o2 sensor pins. I think the pins got bent and are not making contact. I can't make out any bent pins with my eyes. I sent it to the dealer. I don't think they are going to be able to figure it out.
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      10-08-2013, 05:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleridge View Post
Clearing them didn't work.

I think the codes are from pulling the connector in the DME. I never touched the pins for those units. Aside from the throttle errors which are from resetting adaptations, I believe everything is on the same connector. X60007 which is the grey connector beside the one with the o2 sensor pins. I think the pins got bent and are not making contact. I can't make out any bent pins with my eyes. I sent it to the dealer. I don't think they are going to be able to figure it out.
Ya I didn't expect that clearing the codes would make the car start. But it would allow you to see if they come right back or not. If the codes came back the next time you tried to start, then you can pretty much guarantee there is something wrong with the connections you disturbed.
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      10-08-2013, 07:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viktimize View Post
Ya I didn't expect that clearing the codes would make the car start. But it would allow you to see if they come right back or not. If the codes came back the next time you tried to start, then you can pretty much guarantee there is something wrong with the connections you disturbed.
thats exactly what happened.....i'm worried now that the dealer will void my CPO for anything to do with the DME....
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      10-08-2013, 10:05 PM   #21
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Hold on.

Looking at the connectors on the DME and matching the codes to the pins I think were affecting, point to a connector I never unhooked even once.

The connector A-C is one unit and I only removed B to install/uninstall the dp fix. From the codes I pulled most of the signals come from G and the throttle codes come from E. I don't see how I could have messed those up.

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      10-08-2013, 10:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleridge View Post
Hold on.

Looking at the connectors on the DME and matching the codes to the pins I think were affecting, point to a connector I never unhooked even once.

The connector A-C is one unit and I only removed B to install/uninstall the dp fix. From the codes I pulled most of the signals come from G and the throttle codes come from E. I don't see how I could have messed those up.

It's possible you just didn't seat the connector properly. I just installed a JB4 today, and they mention right in the install instructions that you need to wiggle the connector down when plugging it in because sometimes they won't seat properly. I'd come try and give you a hand looking at it, but I won't be in Van city till mid November.
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