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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90/E92/E93 Marketplace (For Sale / Trade / Wanted) > Vendor Comments/Review/Feedback Forum > Another AVOID E92-LIGHTING... we should all know this by now.



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      01-29-2013, 11:42 AM   #1
Mr Hahn
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Exclamation Another AVOID E92-LIGHTING... we should all know this by now.

This post is very long but contains all of the details on why, in my opinion, you should avoid this vendor at all costs.

Order placed on Jan 7th:

Quote:
ACS Style MT Pedals E9X $59.99
BMW LICENSE PLATE LAMP 24-LEDS $39.99
E9X Clutch Pedal Stop DIY $14.99
FULL LED INTERIOR KIT E92 E93 $69.99
NOKYA 2500K HYPER YELLOW H8 $19.99
TREEFROG AIR FRESHENER BLACK $9.99
At the same time I placed orders at several other places.

By Friday the the 18th I had received orders from everybody but e92-lighting and I was starting to wonder when my order was going to ship, so I sent a PM to requesting status:

Quote:
Derrick,
I'd like to know if my last order of parts shipped yet.
The Reply:

Quote:
Hi,
yes, it will arrive on Tuesday via USPS
A few minutes later I send this PM:

Quote:
Great to hear, I would like the tracking number please.
But there was no reply. I send another PM on Saturday the 19th:

Quote:
Do you have a tracking number?
Again no reply, but his post history shows six postings made by him on this forum that day, and more the previous night.

On Monday the 21st he sent me this reply:

Quote:
Hi,
it will arrive in 2-3 business days from today.
9405511201080619777038
via Usps.com
On Friday he said it was in the mail and would arrive on Tuesday. Now he was saying it was in the mail but would be another 2-3 days. He lied both times, the tracking number was not active because all he had done was print a shipping label from his home computer. My package had not left yet.

I send this PM:

Quote:
While wondering what is going on I started searching the forum, you seem to have a nasty reputation when it comes to providing timely service and actual shipping dates. The complaints always start with "he wouldn't tell me if it shipped and he wouldn't respond to my email", then they move on to "he gave me bogus shipping information when it had not gone out yet". Starting to sound familiar here.

I hope you realize there's you're killing any chance of me buying the body parts or anything else from you in the future. In fact, if the complete order fails to arrive tomorrow, and you fail to provide concrete information on where it is at, I'm calling the credit card company.

That number gives no tracking information, and what the hell happened to "yes, it will arrive on Tuesday via USPS". What day did you physically drop it of at the postal center and what method did it ship out by, (i.e. did you send it via priority, express, etc). Concrete information would be a receipt from the post office and a tracking number that shows it is already in transit.
However, he had already lied to me twice, so I changed my mind about 5 minutes later and told him this:

Quote:
Never mind, I already filed a credit card dispute, you can keep your parts and I'll buy from a reputable dealer.
On Tuesday the 22nd he replies:

Quote:
USPS priority mail, it will arrive in to you in two business days or a full refund will apply, if you already filed a chargeback dispute, we will submit the information later, you jumping the gun when we have replied to every single PM doesnt help any bit, and then automatically disputing it is a bit haste.

what do you want me to do?
On Thursday the 24th he follows up with this PM:

Quote:
tracking number works, you can check it if you dont believe me.
9405511201080619777038
I respond after there is still no package when USPS passes my house, but the tracking number is finally active and it confirms everything I knew:

Quote:
Your last PM, "tracking number works, you can check it if you dont believe me." That was just icing on the cake. Wow, it finally works, you finally managed to get a box to the post office. Do you want a standing ovation? Are you giving me some kind of I told you so now? Because all it proves is that the package wasn't REALLY "in the mail" until the third time you promised that it already was en route. Congratulations, it only took you three times to get it right.

This tracking number tells me what I already knew. It tells me you lied when you said my package had originally shipped the first time. On Friday the 18th I asked "I'd like to know if my last order of parts shipped yet.", and on the same day you told me "yes, it will arrive on Tuesday via USPS". I immediately replied and asked for the tracking number and you went silent for a few days, because you didn't have one.

Three days later on Monday the 21st you gave me a tracking number and said "it will arrive in 2-3 business days from today." (which would have been yesterday or today), but the tracking number was not active yet. That means all you had done at that point is print a shipping label so I would have a useless number in an attempt get me to be quiet. You had not yet given it to the post office. Yes, after this second lie I immediately filed a dispute with my credit card. At that point you've had a few weeks to ship the package and you've lied to me twice about it being in the mail. I was done taking chances with you.

It's now Thursday the 24th, and no package.

You told me on Tuesday the 22nd "USPS priority mail, it will arrive in to you in two business days or a full refund will apply". It's now Thursday the 24th, 2 business days have passed, and USPS only had a netflix movie for me. In fact, according to the tracking number the post office didn't get the package from you until Wednesday the 23rd, it still hasn't left California, and it's still days away from getting here.

So, did you lie to me again or am I going to get that full refund now? I told you I filed the credit dispute on Monday the 21st, before the package was really in the mail anyway, so it never should have shipped in the first place. If it arrives and I get my refund I'll simply mark it return to shipper without opening it.

Also, you asked me in an earlier PM, "what do you want me to do?".

1) Stop playing games with your customers and stop lying to us.

2) Tell us what is really going on when we ask about delays so we don't feel like we need to file credit card disputes.

3) If something is out of stock or back-ordered the day we place an order, just give us a heads up so we know there will be a delay. Don't leave us hanging for weeks and then lie about it being in the mail somewhere to buy more time.

4) When you make a promise, follow through with it.

If you want to fix your rep on the forum, this would be a great start.

Now about that full refund, you promised after two business days...

Holding my breath here,
Nate Hahn
His response:

Quote:
USPS does not offer real time tracking, meaning, when it does get delivered to the postal office, there is a delay to scan/receive the order. you asked for a tracking and we gave it, and you automatically called your credit card company, within 5-6 minutes?


1) UPS does offer real time tracking
2) FEDEX does offer real time tracking.
3) USPS does not offer real time tracking.


you want us to give you a refund when your order is not in our hands? its fine, i believe you filed a credit card dispute, its okay, we will go ahead and submit all necessary information when we receive our documents.

i would have offered a partial refund but since you disputed the full amount assuming, i cant even offer that any longer.
That night I start posting about him in the other E92-Lighting feedback thread, letting people know I'm having a situation. According to the time stamps he sends me this 10 minutes after I make the post:

Quote:
Hello Nate,
i thought about it over the last few hours and your completely right, i guess its my fault i should have notified you when some of your order was out of stock. your first PM to cancel your order was Monday evening, well past our normal business hours and your order shipped on Monday afternoon, therefore we could not stop your shipment as you may have thought we could. once any order leaves our warehouse we cant stop it until it gets delivered or re-routed back to us, so we can either

1) cover your return shipping back to us free of charge so it will cost you nothing.
2) or you can mark "return to sender"

a full refund has been issued as you have requested, here is proof. an email was also sent to you as well.

i have done everything you asked and we still issued a full refund when we got nothing back.

i have been a bit overwhelmed lately, so its my deepest apologies and you have been given a full refund.

Derrick
Friday the 25th the package arrives and what a surprise, this is my PM:

Quote:
The package finally arrived today, and now I know why you had a sudden change of heart. I opened it to make sure everything was ok before sending it back because I didn't want you to try another trick. I also immediately noticed the package was too small to possibly contain the entire order.

You spent the past week trying to make me feel bad, telling me I was being unreasonable because my package was already in the mail, even though you were lying the first two times you said it. So today the package finally arrives, and now I find you never sent the whole order?! You gave me all of that crap knowing you hadn't sent a complete order! Did you think that that was going to work out well for you?! If I hadn't already demanded a refund, what did you think would have happened when an incomplete order arrived at my door?

To be clear at this point: I only opened the shipping box to asses the contents, I did not open the individual items. The items in my order that did not arrive are:

- BMW LICENSE PLATE LAMP 24-LEDS $39.99
- ACS Style MT Pedals E9X $59.99


I want to be done with you as soon as possible. To help this end as quickly as possible I propose one of two options for you:

Option 1: As you offered before, you provide full refund and I send this partial order back at your shipping expense. If you take this option you will need to refund the complete order amount of 232.93 + send me an additional $17.99 for return shipping.

Option 2: You provide a partial refund only for the items missing, and the shipping fee due to taking so long and feeding me lies, and I'll keep the part of the order that finally arrived. If you take this option you will need to refund only $117.97 (Pedals $59.99 + LED $39.99 + Shipping Fee 17.99 = $117.97)

I leave it up to you. When I receive either amount of money, and it is posted to my credit card, I will act based on your choice. I know you said you already sent a refund, but I have not received one on my credit card as of 2 minutes ago. If it is easier you may also send me the money via PayPal, but as a personal payment option only.

I await your response.

Nate Hahn
He informs me of his choice:

Quote:
Hi Nate,

we have given you full refund as you have requested already, we emailed you a copy already and PM'ed you a copy here as well, a full refund was issued yesterday evening, not today, it will show in your credit card statement in 2 business days, or we will double your refund for the time wasted. due to our merchant agreements, we cannot issue a refund twice, refund + charge back.

we can send over 17.99 to your paypal email address so it will cost you nothing for this whole order.

awaiting your reply

Derrick
I'm fine with that and now I make another post in the other E92-Lighting thread:

Quote:
Just 10 coincidental minutes after I made that post above they offered a full refund. Also, the package finally arrived today, half the order was missing anyway. Days of telling me how unreasonable I was being, lying about having actually shipped my order, and when the box arrives half the order was missing anyway... Watch for my new thread soon, I have lots to talk about.
Just 13 minutes after I make that post I get a phone call and this PM:

Quote:
Hello Nate,
your full refund was sent yesterday, i am very sorry for everything and its completely my fault for everything, i will cover everything and all expenses. is there anything i can do to make this right you for you, you have my deepest apologies and i feel really terrible for this.

you can just keep the order on us for the time wasted, i have learned from my mistakes and i will just take the full lost and full responsibility for my mistake. a full refund has been issued and you can keep everything free for the time wasted and inconvenience, i dont know what else i can do to make you satisfied.
Derrick
He now wants complete forgiveness and wants me to be to be happy with him again. He told me to just keep the portion of the order that had arrived free of charge and I'll still get my complete refund. All I have to do is forget all of the lies and crap he gave me. He knows how bad this looks for him, he knows I intend to be verbal about it on the forum, and he wants me to make it all go away. He didn't directly ask me not to make any posts on the forum in exchange, it was simply implied.

Well since it wasn't asked and I didn't agree to it, here's my feedback. He's done this multiple times in the past, and then he tries to buy his way out of trouble. He gives bribes for silence. As another forum member said: "They wanted to offer me something to get me to delete the posting - hush money?"

Based on this experience, and based on the many others I have found on this forum, I simply do not understand how he has not been banned along with **********'s. Did I move fast and get a little aggressive? Absolutely, after searching for feedback on Monday night I knew what I had to do. Many people have been caught in his loop of lies and promised shipping dates for much longer than I was. I was only lucky because others had posted about his behavior and I knew to move quickly.

So to make it all better he gave me a few cheap Chinese LED's, two cheap yellow fog bulbs, and a .25 cent rubber bump stop, and an air freshener for free. On the phone he asked if there was anything else he could do and sounded worried. I told him no, the situation has reached it's conclusion. He also told me he's ashamed of his actions this time and in the past and he's going to try to change, but I think he's had enough second chances. Was the aggravation he gave me worth it? Hell no. E92-Lighting seems to be very hit and miss, if you order something they have in stock it might get shipped. But you have no idea what he has in stock, and if he can't get your order anytime soon he will tell you anything but the truth to keep you on the hook as long as possible. Don't just take my word for it, do some searching and see for yourself.

Rant over, my fingers are tired and I'm going back to the fun part of the forum.

Nate Hahn
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Last edited by Mr Hahn; 01-29-2013 at 11:55 AM.
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      01-30-2013, 02:09 AM   #2
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I bought couple things from him and never had problems. Sorry to hear the trouble you went through. But I read somewhere that he works with people if they have problems.
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      01-30-2013, 07:48 AM   #3
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I bought AEs from them, had a faulty ballast, contacted him and worked with me to send me a new one under the year warranty on the product. It took a while for them to process and ship the order but that's it. Otherwise I've had no issues.

Sorry for your luck
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      02-07-2013, 06:53 PM   #4
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Ordered from them once, never had an issue and received a great quality product. This was for LED License plate bulbs along with SR48 Muteki Burning Blue lugs (rare).

Sorry you had a bad experience.
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      02-08-2013, 11:26 AM   #5
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Like I said, it sounds like they behave when they have stuff on hand. It's just a shame that they lie and jerk you around if they don't, and they've done it to several other people. Funny thing was I had already asked him for a quote on the various body parts (lip, spoiler, grills, etc.) I planned on ordering next, screwing around on this order cost him the much larger one I was going to make. Now I'm probably going with JBspeed for all of my exterior parts and pedals.
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      02-08-2013, 11:35 AM   #6
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Will never do business with them thank you!
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      03-17-2013, 04:18 PM   #7
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E92-lightning is a one man show. Stop referring to it as "them".

Which is probably why this shop does not operate like it can handle hundreds of orders on a weekly basis. I just don't think he has the warehouse/inventory to store all that.

I believe I went to college with this guy. I did buy one thing from him a long ass time ago and had no issues but I'm not so sure I will buy anything again.

But give this guy a break. It's a one man show
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      03-23-2013, 10:31 AM   #8
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Here's an update I didn't expect. When I ordered from E92-lighting I pulled out an unused USAA American Express card because my normal card for buying parts and toys wasn't close by. The only charge made on this specific card until today was my order from E92-lighting and the refund from him a month later.

Today my bank called to ask about charges somebody made this morning to a "Zest Airlines" that operates out of South-East Asia and the Philippines. I had to confirm the charges were fraudulent and they canceled the card for me. To me it looks like E92-lightning either sold my credit card info, used my credit card info, or simply has a system that's not secure enough with our credit card information. Again, only E92-lightning and my bank (USAA) had the info for this card, so suggest you keep an eye on your credit card statements.
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      03-28-2013, 02:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Hahn
Here's an update I didn't expect. When I ordered from E92-lighting I pulled out an unused USAA American Express card because my normal card for buying parts and toys wasn't close by. The only charge made on this specific card until today was my order from E92-lighting and the refund from him a month later.

Today my bank called to ask about charges somebody made this morning to a "Zest Airlines" that operates out of South-East Asia and the Philippines. I had to confirm the charges were fraudulent and they canceled the card for me. To me it looks like E92-lightning either sold my credit card info, used my credit card info, or simply has a system that's not secure enough with our credit card information. Again, only E92-lightning and my bank (USAA) had the info for this card, so suggest you keep an eye on your credit card statements.
Wow! Scary stuff!
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      03-28-2013, 02:08 AM   #10
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Sounds like this is just some guy drop shipping from a stateside Chinese warehouse out of his apartment TBH. Will never do business with him. I work too hard for my money.
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      03-28-2013, 09:12 AM   #11
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That guy is almost as bad as Umnitza

Last edited by e92oholic; 03-28-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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      03-30-2013, 02:37 AM   #12
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He's a one man show. Doesn't have retail space either. Picked up quite a few items locally, never had any problems.

Sorry for the bad luck OP.
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      04-16-2013, 02:09 PM   #13
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Unfortunately I came up on this thread after I place my order for and Amber LED side marker bulb. I have searched everywhere online before this looking for the right kind of LED bulb. Didn't want the unfinished look of those cheap bulbs that try to fit as many LED's on one bulb as possible.

I found the right one for me on his sight and ordered right away, excited that I finally found the exact set I was looking for.

Too bad this is E92 Lighting we're talking about. What I received in the mail was not the bulbs I ordered, the ones pictured on his site. Instead he sent a set of the those cheap, fit-as-may-LED's-as-you-can bulb with a bright yellow base (even they fit ok into the housing, the yellow of the base shows through and gives that egg yolk look, the exact thing I'm trying to avoid.

I immediately contacted him regarding this "mix-up" and his reply was:

Quote:
these are bigger in size and have 5 Leds on it, however our item only has 1 Led on it, so you got a brighter and whiter product in place of the item you ordered. i dont think that is a bad deal.

they fit for the LED sidemarkers as stated on our site.
Although true, they would fit in the housing as stated on the product page, he admits he sent a completely different than what was ordered. Some people wouldn't care, but like I said, I was looking for a specific look of the bulb and the one I received was not the one pictured on the site, not even close.

Long story short, I had to file a paypal claim to get my money back. Paypal decided in my favor, but he want's me to pay for return shipping in order to receive a refund. I don't see how it makes sense that a business sends an Item that is very different than what was advertised and purchased, when you fight for a refund you have to pay half of the product's cost in shipping.

My advice, avoid this seller like the plague.
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      04-29-2013, 12:22 PM   #14
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I ordered some MTEC V4's from him last week and was just updated that it should be arriving today. Looking forward to installing new parts.

Last edited by beckalex; 04-29-2013 at 12:52 PM. Reason: Change in vendor status.
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      05-19-2013, 03:59 PM   #15
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Well.. Looks like i'll be avoiding them
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      05-19-2013, 07:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukezero View Post
E92-lightning is a one man show. Stop referring to it as "them".

Which is probably why this shop does not operate like it can handle hundreds of orders on a weekly basis. I just don't think he has the warehouse/inventory to store all that.

I believe I went to college with this guy. I did buy one thing from him a long ass time ago and had no issues but I'm not so sure I will buy anything again.

But give this guy a break. It's a one man show
You shouldn't give this guy a break. If you were a business owner, is that how you would run your business?

In fact, a small business owner needs to be even more on top of things to be successful. You can't half-ass service. You either give 5-star service all the time, or attempt to resolve the issue if it is not 5-star, in a timely manner (that cannot be stressed enough). What I am reading is a debate back and forth with seller and buyer; that is ridiculous.

Last edited by Stance321; 05-19-2013 at 07:08 PM.
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