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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > I need your help - Carbon Build Up



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      01-29-2013, 05:38 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by pjuhlin View Post
Two so far and the Service Rep claims that both had no work done in their system, atleast work that BMW paid for. I really need your help now becuase the reagional rep is in town tomorrow morning!!! I need some amunition that somewhere BMW has covered the costs. I have read mutliple cases where this happnened but I need to provide proof.
Do you have BMW extended warranty?
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      02-08-2013, 12:09 AM   #24
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Do you still need VINs? My 2010 335d was gunked up, but I had to pay for it so maybe it won't be in their service history.
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      02-08-2013, 10:03 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Dunkinvenn View Post
Do you still need VINs? My 2010 335d was gunked up, but I had to pay for it so maybe it won't be in their service history.
It will be in service history. If OP is looking for # owners troubled by carbon build up then it will be beneficial to him. Curious why did you have to do it out of your pocket. IL doesnt come under emissions warranty?
It seems like you do lot of highway miles too so issue shouldnt occur in first place.
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      02-08-2013, 02:10 PM   #26
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It will be in service history. If OP is looking for # owners troubled by carbon build up then it will be beneficial to him. Curious why did you have to do it out of your pocket. IL doesnt come under emissions warranty?
It seems like you do lot of highway miles too so issue shouldnt occur in first place.
I'm way past the original 50k mile warranty, so when the carbon cleaning came up it wasn't a covered part or service for my 3rd party warranty.

I do over 90% highway. I drive about 850 miles a week of which ~800 is highway averaging around 67 mph. I use cruise control as much as possible so my lead foot doesn't get me in trouble. This keeps the RPMs at about 2k. If the manufacturer's recommendations told me that would cause carbon, I'd have adjusted my style. Better yet, if the car was designed for highway use, it would have adjusted RPMs accordingly.
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      06-18-2013, 09:41 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
It will be in service history. If OP is looking for # owners troubled by carbon build up then it will be beneficial to him. Curious why did you have to do it out of your pocket. IL doesnt come under emissions warranty?
It seems like you do lot of highway miles too so issue shouldnt occur in first place.
Anyone else get injectors, intake manifold, cylinder head all replaced plus carbon cleaning under the 770 emissions warranty??
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      06-18-2013, 10:22 PM   #28
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Any 2011s need work related to carbon buildup. No issue here, but I will help in any way. This is kind of stupid that warranty doesn't cover this.
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      06-19-2013, 06:15 AM   #29
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Any 2011s need work related to carbon buildup. No issue here, but I will help in any way. This is kind of stupid that warranty doesn't cover this.
I expect that somehow we need to provide a solid link between the failure of a warrantied part and the carbon build up, or it will just be judged normal wear and tear. Some direct evidence of cause and effect more than just anecdotal.
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      06-19-2013, 08:39 AM   #30
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boy oh boy cant wait the day I WILL GET PISSED off on this issue!!!
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      06-25-2013, 03:00 PM   #31
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This forum is a godsend, so I will chime in with my quick story. I purchased my '11 just about a year ago with 18k and it has 32k now, still under the original 4 year/50k warranty, thank god. It was in the shop 3 times within the first 3 months with SES lights and diesel exhaust in the cabin. I finally added up all of the parts that the dealer threw at it and it comes to a bit over $5,100, including new NOX sensors ($461 each) and a new DPF ($2302). With labor that would have been about $10k, but all was covered under the original warranty. Knock on wood, it has been great since the repairs, but there seem to be so many issues with these cars that I am really debating whether I will keep it past 50k. I have little faith in the extended warranties covering any of these problems going forward.
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      06-25-2013, 04:58 PM   #32
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I expect that somehow we need to provide a solid link between the failure of a warrantied part and the carbon build up, or it will just be judged normal wear and tear. Some direct evidence of cause and effect more than just anecdotal.
the problem with that is that the build up is caused by parts working properly, not broken. This is why carbon buildup alone is not warrantied. All of the manufacturers are taking this position because carbon buildup, for now, is a fact of life with the majority of direct injected engines out there. If they warranty carbon buildup they will be doing $1000 warranty work on every engine under warranty and thats not sustainable.

The only possible failure or malfunction I can think of would be that the PCV (CCV) is passing excessive oil through the system leading to the buildup
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      06-25-2013, 05:17 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by 335dFan View Post
I expect that somehow we need to provide a solid link between the failure of a warrantied part and the carbon build up, or it will just be judged normal wear and tear. Some direct evidence of cause and effect more than just anecdotal.
the problem with that is that the build up is caused by parts working properly, not broken. This is why carbon buildup alone is not warrantied. All of the manufacturers are taking this position because carbon buildup, for now, is a fact of life with the majority of direct injected engines out there. If they warranty carbon buildup they will be doing $1000 warranty work on every engine under warranty and thats not sustainable.

The only possible failure or malfunction I can think of would be that the PCV (CCV) is passing excessive oil through the system leading to the buildup
My SA claimed that the failed injectors were "leaking" fuel and otherwise firing incorrectly. He claimed that this is what caused the buildup. Don't know what I believe now, but carbon buildup is certainly not exclusive to the d.
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      06-25-2013, 05:44 PM   #34
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My SA claimed that the failed injectors were "leaking" fuel and otherwise firing incorrectly. He claimed that this is what caused the buildup. Don't know what I believe now, but carbon buildup is certainly not exclusive to the d.
this makes NO sense, if anything leaking fuel would dissolve the carbon
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      06-25-2013, 06:59 PM   #35
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actually leaking injectors could cause excessive carbon and when the EGR opened that excessive carbon (soot) would end up going through the intake, but soot alone shouldnt stick to the walls of the intake (and I dont think it does). Remember, leaking injectors wouldnt have any liquid come in contact with the buildup before it is burnt because of direct injection. Even if it did it might not help, not sure, but since diesel is oil and the sludge in our manifold is very oily it might just add to it.
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      06-26-2013, 08:13 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
actually leaking injectors could cause excessive carbon and when the EGR opened that excessive carbon (soot) would end up going through the intake, but soot alone shouldnt stick to the walls of the intake (and I dont think it does). Remember, leaking injectors wouldnt have any liquid come in contact with the buildup before it is burnt because of direct injection. Even if it did it might not help, not sure, but since diesel is oil and the sludge in our manifold is very oily it might just add to it.
Just to clarify. Carbon build up in the intake is a mixture of motor oil and soot. Carbon buildup in the head is the result of excessive idling and low load conditions.
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      06-27-2013, 08:46 PM   #37
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Carbon build up is a result of recirculating the Exhaust Gas back into the intake, hence Exhaust gas recirculation, something some dumb ass created to help with emissions. Clogs the intake like plaque in your arteries. Easy to block this on my truck. Simple pull a plug. it sends a SES, but I can clear that. I want to know how to do it on the D.
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      06-27-2013, 11:58 PM   #38
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I haven't tested it but I would think the easiest is to plug the vacuum line at the actuator near the bottom of the exhaust cooler. Not sure of any side effects though...
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      06-28-2013, 06:54 AM   #39
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Carbon build up is a result of recirculating the Exhaust Gas back into the intake, hence Exhaust gas recirculation, something some dumb ass created to help with emissions. Clogs the intake like plaque in your arteries. Easy to block this on my truck. Simple pull a plug. it sends a SES, but I can clear that. I want to know how to do it on the D.
I believe we can all thank Mercedes Benz. Lol.
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      06-28-2013, 07:17 AM   #40
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Don't think this is a MB invention. Exhaust gas recirc has been used in gasoline engines for many decades to reduce NOx emissions. By polluting the intake air it lowers peak combustion temperatures thus lowering NOx. Does the same thing in the diesel except now we are recirculating soot. Wonder if they've tried getting the exhaust after the DPF?
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      07-08-2013, 10:05 PM   #41
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Same possible problem...carbon build up...need help as well

I drive a 2010 335d now with 75k on it. SES light came on a few months ago and after a diagnostic test by dealer, was told that they cannot find problem but are pretty certain that it is carbon buildup on the intake valves and to clean this up it will cost $6000. Car is paid for and I did not buy extended warranty. BMW in goodwill has offered to pay half but I want them to pay all since I think this is a problem with the model based on the posts here. I called Customer Service and ended up talking to same woman who responded to this thread, Erin Waugh. She told me that BMW would do more than half.

Dealer told me that the clean up does not FIX the problem, only alleviate it for the time being. I did a lot of research before purchasing this car and was told that buying a diesel was so much better than gas because diesel is much easier on the car so there will be less repair and longer life. This is now appearing to be not the case. If there is no fix for this issue, then wouldn't that be a manufacturer responsibility? And if there is a fix, shouldn't the manufacturer cover it?

I am asking if you were able to collect a bunch of VIN numbers with this problem.

Please share with me the outcome of your efforts in January and I also welcome any others having this problem to post. The more we have, the stronger the case for BMW to take care of this.

At this point, as much as I loved driving this car, I may have to part ways due to the very high costs of just cleaning the carbon build up every ??? miles. I had planned $2000/year in maintenance costs when I made the purchase but now it is appearing to be a lot more which is unacceptable.

Look forward to feedback from other owners.
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      07-09-2013, 06:59 AM   #42
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Blame it in our dpf system otherwise we wouldn't hv this issue so early sad to hear u hv this issue
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      07-09-2013, 09:24 AM   #43
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I drive a 2010 335d now with 75k on it. SES light came on a few months ago and after a diagnostic test by dealer, was told that they cannot find problem but are pretty certain that it is carbon buildup on the intake valves and to clean this up it will cost $6000. Car is paid for and I did not buy extended warranty. BMW in goodwill has offered to pay half but I want them to pay all since I think this is a problem with the model based on the posts here. I called Customer Service and ended up talking to same woman who responded to this thread, Erin Waugh. She told me that BMW would do more than half.

Dealer told me that the clean up does not FIX the problem, only alleviate it for the time being. I did a lot of research before purchasing this car and was told that buying a diesel was so much better than gas because diesel is much easier on the car so there will be less repair and longer life. This is now appearing to be not the case. If there is no fix for this issue, then wouldn't that be a manufacturer responsibility? And if there is a fix, shouldn't the manufacturer cover it?

I am asking if you were able to collect a bunch of VIN numbers with this problem.

Please share with me the outcome of your efforts in January and I also welcome any others having this problem to post. The more we have, the stronger the case for BMW to take care of this.

At this point, as much as I loved driving this car, I may have to part ways due to the very high costs of just cleaning the carbon build up every ??? miles. I had planned $2000/year in maintenance costs when I made the purchase but now it is appearing to be a lot more which is unacceptable.

Look forward to feedback from other owners.
It's normal. You have 75k miles on the car. How many more times can you see having to do this before the car falls apart? Once every 75k miles?
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      07-09-2013, 09:43 AM   #44
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its not really a BMW, 335D, or M57N problem, its a problem caused by CARB and the EPA for the most part. The only way to really fix the problem is to ignore emissions requirements. Our best bet is getting BMW to recognize the problem and offer to help cover part of the repair bill when cleaning is needed. If the repair is $6k and they are offering to cover half, what have you been spending maintenance costs on for the last 3-4 years that $2k/year doesnt cover this?

Its interesting that youre in my area, I loosely looked at finding a shop in the area that would do a carbon cleaning for cheaper than the dealer but never really came across anything. You might have some luck though asking around the California/Northern california regional areas of the forum here, on bimmerforums, maybe a mazdaspeed forum, audi forum, mini forum, etc since they ALL have known carbon buildup issues. Let us know if you find a shop to do it.

Not sure how you would sell it since it has an SES light on, in CA if you sell a car that has an emissions problem and doesnt pass smog you can be on the hook for the repairs $$$
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