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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Track prep questions from brand new '13 335is owner and HPDE enthusiast



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      01-28-2013, 04:06 PM   #45
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Thanks that helps.

To Chrisred- I take my prior comment back. The CP-e looks like a viable option! I didn't realize the oil cooler would essentially piggyback inline to the existing system. I thought it would replace the factory cooler.

I'm really considering this option instead of meth, providing it's adequate to keep the oil temps down. I'm confident the IATs will be fine. Plus, if I do this, I probably will run stock boost so that should help with temps too.
meth is a great power adder, you'd be making a mistake not using it.

that being said, it is in no way a replacement for a dmic.

either way, good luck with the build!!!
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      01-28-2013, 04:10 PM   #46
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Thanks bud. I agree that if and when I want more POWA I should consider all options... but as I said, for now I'm more interested in getting the car trackable safely.

I think I'll go the CP-e route assuming my research indicates it will be enough cooling for my needs.
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      01-28-2013, 04:14 PM   #47
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i dont think the fsd shocks are going to be track worthy or worth the effort or $ figure.

personally, again, if its track time you are concerned about, there is no replacement for coilovers.

i almost went with "theres no replacement for adjustment", but that seemed to easy.
I agree and also most spring shock combo's tend ride a lot harsher then a good coilover kit on the street. Atleast in my experience. So it has its benefits on the street and track.
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      01-28-2013, 05:13 PM   #48
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The ECU will retard timing if IAT's get too hot even w/o a tune, my experience anyway. I too was trying to limit thermal stress, so my first mod before a tune was an ETS fmic to lower IAT's then the Dinan intake and oil cooler. Flamesuit on for mentioning the D word on this forum; good products though.
As others have mentioned LSD=#1 mod
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      01-29-2013, 08:25 PM   #49
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The PSS's came in today and got installed! 245f/275r on the stock 19" 313s. Perfect fitment IMO... totally square and now I have a bit more curb protection (nevermind the prodigious grip I'm going to gain). I am more than pleased.

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      02-01-2013, 10:21 PM   #50
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Side shot with the new meats

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      02-02-2013, 10:16 AM   #51
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Side shot with the new meats

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Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
The PSS's came in today and got installed! 245f/275r on the stock 19" 313s. Perfect fitment IMO... totally square and now I have a bit more curb protection (nevermind the prodigious grip I'm going to gain). I am more than pleased.


car looks fantastic, good luck with the continued modding process !
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      02-02-2013, 10:37 AM   #52
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car looks fantastic, good luck with the continued modding process !

Thanks I appreciate it! She feels pretty different with the more front-biased tread ratio, but also having the stickier rear meats might help delay ever so slightly the absolute need for an LSD, if I control my throttle. I think for my first outing I should be okay- will let that be my R&D run!

I'm thinking about getting the TRW M3 front control arm upgrade from ECS. Will probably do all the rear bushings when I drop my pumpkin for the LSD too.

Also been thinking about doing a custom oil cooler using a setrab core, but I'm going to try the secondary CP-e setup first and see if it suffices.

Brakes I've decided to use the Z4 35is two-piece rotors up front along with OEM rear replacements, with Carbotech XP20/10's per Mike Jr's recommendation. Those will be dedicated track rotors, and will swap back to OEM for street since well, BMW will pay for those as they wear right?
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      02-02-2013, 11:27 AM   #53
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Thanks I appreciate it! She feels pretty different with the more front-biased tread ratio, but also having the stickier rear meats might help delay ever so slightly the absolute need for an LSD, if I control my throttle. I think for my first outing I should be okay- will let that be my R&D run!

I'm thinking about getting the TRW M3 front control arm upgrade from ECS. Will probably do all the rear bushings when I drop my pumpkin for the LSD too.

Also been thinking about doing a custom oil cooler using a setrab core, but I'm going to try the secondary CP-e setup first and see if it suffices.

Brakes I've decided to use the Z4 35is two-piece rotors up front along with OEM rear replacements, with Carbotech XP20/10's per Mike Jr's recommendation. Those will be dedicated track rotors, and will swap back to OEM for street since well, BMW will pay for those as they wear right?
funny you mentioned the bmw paying for pads, theyve replaced my front pads/rotors twice after track days.

ive never even requested they do so lol.
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      02-02-2013, 05:34 PM   #54
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Brakes I've decided to use the Z4 35is two-piece rotors up front along with OEM rear replacements, with Carbotech XP20/10's per Mike Jr's recommendation. Those will be dedicated track rotors, and will swap back to OEM for street since well, BMW will pay for those as they wear right?
I've been running XP16/12, the XP16 lasted about 3 days total. Just ordered a set of RP2 from them (their endurance compound). Supposed to have the torque/bite of the 16 but last allot longer. If you're interested, I can update you on how they are.
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      02-02-2013, 06:36 PM   #55
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Mike Jr. explained to me that the XP20 is going to replace the 16 because it has better mu, rotor friendliness, and lasts longer than the 16. He seemed real proud of the new compound so I'm going to try it. I will also report back and would be thrilled to hear how the RP2 works out for you!
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      02-02-2013, 06:51 PM   #56
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awesome, I was between the XP20 and RP2, look forward to what your experience is like. I may try out the XP20 anyways after the RP2's are gone just to compare.
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      02-02-2013, 06:56 PM   #57
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if you have a setrab core from your G, definitely look into hose and fittings to make it work on the 3, will make a noticable difference when temps go up. or find a new core (biggest possible) to fit into the current space. (relatively) easy swap for not much $$
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      02-02-2013, 06:59 PM   #58
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if you have a setrab core from your G, definitely look into hose and fittings to make it work on the 3, will make a noticable difference when temps go up. or find a new core (biggest possible) to fit into the current space. (relatively) easy swap for not much $$
yeah i might do that. Will be easy to fab up my own mounts. The prices of the various aftermarket options is just obscene. Totally insane IMO.
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      02-03-2013, 10:03 AM   #59
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I just had an idea last night I'm embarrassed I didn't think about sooner- what if I just did 100% water injection, no meth... would that reduce my IATs and oil temps too? My understanding is it's the high specific heat capacity of the water that leads to reduced temps, not the alcohol.

And, assuming this is feasible, wouldn't I not need a fancy fuel computer anymore since the water wouldn't be altering the AFR at all? That way I could go with a standalone kit that is boost driven. Without the alcohol and added boost, this should be low risk to the motor, right?

Again, I'm looking for trackability, not power increase at this point. Arguments against this approach due to no power increase are not applicable to my needs.

Thanks!
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      02-03-2013, 10:54 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
I just had an idea last night I'm embarrassed I didn't think about sooner- what if I just did 100% water injection, no meth... would that reduce my IATs and oil temps too? My understanding is it's the high specific heat capacity of the water that leads to reduced temps, not the alcohol.

And, assuming this is feasible, wouldn't I not need a fancy fuel computer anymore since the water wouldn't be altering the AFR at all? That way I could go with a standalone kit that is boost driven. Without the alcohol and added boost, this should be low risk to the motor, right?

Again, I'm looking for trackability, not power increase at this point. Arguments against this approach due to no power increase are not applicable to my needs.

Thanks!
I don't see why you wouldn't be able to do this. Though, I'm not sure it'll help you much with the oil temps, may help 1-5 degrees or so. Just from running 60/40 water/meth before. It should help you maintain power and prevent detonation. Not sure what the effects of just water in this platform are, so I'll wait for more qualified individuals. Though I don't really see a reason not too, with a small(er) nozzle size.
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      02-03-2013, 04:37 PM   #61
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yeah i might do that. Will be easy to fab up my own mounts. The prices of the various aftermarket options is just obscene. Totally insane IMO.
exactly.
took me 20 min to bend & drill aluminum for brackets, add some rubber washer to deaden, and forget about it. price for kits over cores is nuts
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      02-03-2013, 04:42 PM   #62
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It's funny how the equivalent kits in the Infiniti world (last car was a G37) are $500-600 for a 34-row series 6 setrab setup. Waaaaay better than the proprietary cores a lot of the BMW kits I've seen.

Anyway, I'm also looking into Setrab's cross-flow cores bc then I can use a smaller one for the same cooling capacity.

BUT, I will actually first do either the CP-e intercooler/OC setup or the water injection alone (see above) and then see where my oil temps are after my first track outing. I decided to sell my G oil cooler core bc I didn't want to be tied to a specific core size. I can get another (new) core for a good price so no big.

I like to do these things in stages, informed by empirical data.
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      02-03-2013, 08:47 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
I just had an idea last night I'm embarrassed I didn't think about sooner- what if I just did 100% water injection, no meth... would that reduce my IATs and oil temps too? My understanding is it's the high specific heat capacity of the water that leads to reduced temps, not the alcohol.

And, assuming this is feasible, wouldn't I not need a fancy fuel computer anymore since the water wouldn't be altering the AFR at all? That way I could go with a standalone kit that is boost driven. Without the alcohol and added boost, this should be low risk to the motor, right?

Again, I'm looking for trackability, not power increase at this point. Arguments against this approach due to no power increase are not applicable to my needs.

Thanks!
Just run boost juice, which is pre-mixed 50/50. The water will keep IAT's cool and the methanol will turn your 91 octane to effectively 100 octane.
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      02-09-2013, 09:10 AM   #64
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Ok fellas, I need your valued opinions again please.

I have the opportunity to spend about 3k on mods, and I want to get some better handling/traction first. I figure I can enjoy that both on the track, and daily driving. I have assembled two options for this first stage, and would like opinions on which to do first.

1- M3 front arms, M3 rear upper link and guide rod, subframe bushings, M3 sways
2- OS Giken superlock diff

In the future are plans for ground control coils but I feel these mods make sense to do first.
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      02-09-2013, 09:51 AM   #65
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Ok fellas, I need your valued opinions again please.

I have the opportunity to spend about 3k on mods, and I want to get some better handling/traction first. I figure I can enjoy that both on the track, and daily driving. I have assembled two options for this first stage, and would like opinions on which to do first.

1- M3 front arms, M3 rear upper link and guide rod, subframe bushings, M3 sways
2- OS Giken superlock diff

In the future are plans for ground control coils but I feel these mods make sense to do first.
I would do the M3 suspension bits. I don't have them yet but by the reviews, they completely change the stability of the car. Remember this car was designed by BMW to work without an LSD so the traction control and stability control effectively work as an electronic LSD. When it senses slip, it cuts power (or applies the brakes) from that wheel, forcing power to the wheel with traction. I read somewhere that the traction and stability system does not work well with an LSD. I don't know if you are planning to run with or without the electronic aids but I hope that helps.
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      02-09-2013, 04:29 PM   #66
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I would do the M3 suspension bits. I don't have them yet but by the reviews, they completely change the stability of the car. Remember this car was designed by BMW to work without an LSD so the traction control and stability control effectively work as an electronic LSD. When it senses slip, it cuts power (or applies the brakes) from that wheel, forcing power to the wheel with traction. I read somewhere that the traction and stability system does not work well with an LSD. I don't know if you are planning to run with or without the electronic aids but I hope that helps.
Well the e-diff is going to reduce overall power, and only partially reroute it. Anytime the brakes are applied, you are converting kinetic energy into thermal- so it's not the same as a true LSD. It does help prevent a complete loss of drive, but at a reduced level than is possible.

So I'll still get an LSD at some point.... BUT I think you are right that I should get the suspension bits first- and that's what I'm leaning towards. I will benefit from the better suspension all the time, daily driving, and not always when under power (LSD will help daily driving too, but only in terms of putting down power or stability under trail braking).

And with my PSS tires and proper driving technique, I would always drive with the nannies off, on the track- I find the computer never does as good a job as a human can under those conditions. Will leave the aids on in street driving. Street car stability control systems are tuned for the street, not the track.

Thanks!
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