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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Designing a lower cost, higher performance oil cooler solution



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      02-13-2013, 12:43 PM   #23
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Relocating brake air duct slightly enables bigger core.
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      02-13-2013, 12:48 PM   #24
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Pretty sure i will just eliminate the air duct. Its uselessly oriented...
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      02-13-2013, 01:48 PM   #25
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The retrofit is mainly why I'm interested. I have an 04/07 build w/o cooler and made a similar decision to do it myself, not purely because of cost but also because Stett and Advan wouldn't respond to my requests to purchase their kits. Hoses and fittings are easy to get a deal on, even 634 cores come up on ebay really, really cheap once in a while.

As far as the "engineered" kit vs not "engineered" diy, that is a terrible argument to spend more or less on a product. Engineered is not a word that describes quality, something could be well engineered, or poorly engineered, or engineered to be just cheap enough that a company can make money on it. There are engineers on this forum who have done similar diy oil coolers instead of paying ER for branding and packaging. Without the 2nd core or shrouds I don't see the point of the ER. In fact I think the t-stat housing delete with bigger AN fittings like the stett and advan kits is a better "engineered" solution than ER or Turner or ECS tuning oil cooler packages.
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      02-13-2013, 01:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy View Post
\]
As far as the "engineered" kit vs not "engineered" diy, that is a terrible argument to spend more or less on a product. Engineered is not a word that describes quality, something could be well engineered, or poorly engineered, or engineered to be just cheap enough that a company can make money on it.
This. "Engineered" is a marketing word. It means a prototype was made cheaper to the point that money can be made out if it.
A logical approach and some time spent researching the subject will get you a good product at a better price IMO.
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      02-13-2013, 02:10 PM   #27
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Well said and a shared sentiment, gents. I just didn't want to say it for fear of appearing defensive

Keep the requests/suggestions coming!

Also, do any of you believers have an opinion on non-braided pushlite or pushlock lines versus more traditional RU AN type lines/fittings? For those unaware, pushlock is a lower-cost alternative to traditional braided AN but does not allow reusable dis/reconnect (you have to run a new line because you have to destroy the line to remove it from the adapter, which is reusable.

Line savings could be around $30-$50 depending on what two lines you are comparing. In terms of actual performance, IMO there is no difference at the oil pressures and temperatures our cars produce- it's more of an appearance and convenience thing. I figure I can just provide part numbers to make that an option. Line lengths would still be the same.

Last edited by ashmostro; 02-13-2013 at 03:35 PM.
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      02-13-2013, 02:12 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy View Post
The retrofit is mainly why I'm interested. I have an 04/07 build w/o cooler and made a similar decision to do it myself,
What did you end up using, skyguy?
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      02-13-2013, 02:15 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy View Post
In fact I think the t-stat housing delete with bigger AN fittings like the stett and advan kits is a better "engineered" solution than ER or Turner or ECS tuning oil cooler packages.
Just noticed this comment- do you think using the factory tstat housing (without thermostat in play) and -10AN fittings on the existing housing fittings would result in significant pressure loss or flow constriction? This would not be eliminated by the design I'm currently pondering so I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
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      02-13-2013, 02:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
Just noticed this comment- do you think using the factory tstat housing (without thermostat in play) and -10AN fittings on the existing housing fittings would result in significant pressure loss or flow constriction? This would not be eliminated by the design I'm currently pondering so I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
I dont think there's anything wrong with using the stock thermostat.
Keep in mind that BMW wants this engine to run hot. IMO we just need to make sure that once it gets to 250, the oil cooler is big enough to keep it from going any higher.
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      02-13-2013, 02:54 PM   #31
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Got a setrab 920 core and will modify an m3 air duct to fit it, mocal 180 degree remote t-stat, nylon braided hose, aeroquip and raceflux fittings. Don't have any data for how restrictive the housing is but I do think there'll be less friction loss in the -10 an lines. I didn't have it in the first place so spending the $100 or just drilling some holes in an aluminum block seemed like an obvious choice, that said I still haven't made the plate and would prefer one that looks as nice as stett or advans...
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      02-13-2013, 03:00 PM   #32
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Yeah I'm going -10AN lines no matter what. Was just wondering if the housing itself necks down too much. I didn't think it did and will assume it doesn't unless it shows otherwise!

As for 180/190 vs 250- that's up to the user to decide! The beauty of choice...

Also, the factory T stat probably doesnt flow at as high a rate as the Mocal when fully open, so it's not just the trigger temp that matters. The oil will take the path of lesser resistance so in factory tstat setups the flow through the cooler is probably less at operating temp, but I dont know by how much.
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      02-13-2013, 03:34 PM   #33
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Any thoughts on the lines option question in my post #27 above?

Thanks!
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      02-13-2013, 04:40 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
Well said and a shared sentiment, gents. I just didn't want to say it for fear of appearing defensive

Keep the requests/suggestions coming!

Also, do any of you believers have an opinion on non-braided pushlite or pushlock lines versus more traditional RU AN type lines/fittings? For those unaware, pushlock is a lower-cost alternative to traditional braided AN but does not allow reusable dis/reconnect (you have to run a new line because you have to destroy the line to remove it from the adapter, which is reusable.

Line savings could be around $30-$50 depending on what two lines you are comparing. In terms of actual performance, IMO there is no difference at the oil pressures and temperatures our cars produce- it's more of an appearance and convenience thing. I figure I can just provide part numbers to make that an option. Line lengths would still be the same.
What about an option? So the base kit can be $30-50 cheaper than if you want the other lines you can select from a dropdown. For me if you can make a complete kit to retrofit an oil cooler for around $7-800 then I would buy it right away
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      02-13-2013, 05:50 PM   #35
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I researched this topic in depth last Fall. My car came from the factory with out the oil cooler and I plan to install one soon. As far as mounting brackets, I believe Advan has the best option and one that I would like to duplicate. Creating the oil core bracket like Advans was my next step but I haven't moved forward yet.

I had a mechanical engineer design the t-stat bypass plate like Stett and Advan use. The only issue is it's big $$$ to have the plate CNC'd to test it out. If the plate works out, I could have a batch of fifty CNC'd at a significantly lower price.
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      02-13-2013, 06:56 PM   #36
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i bought setrab 634 and i know it'll fit, i just don't have the time and resources to make the bracket to mount it. I don't have oil cooler from the factory, but i do have the oil cooler housing and i've cnc'd an aluminum plate for where the thermostat bolts on.
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      02-14-2013, 06:41 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
What about an option? So the base kit can be $30-50 cheaper than if you want the other lines you can select from a dropdown. For me if you can make a complete kit to retrofit an oil cooler for around $7-800 then I would buy it right away
Yeah, again I will provide information for several options and remember this isn't going to be a kit you buy from a store front- if anything at all, I'd only need to provide the brackets. The rest of the parts can be bought from various suppliers and for those I would supply part numbers, quantities, lengths etc in a format that is easy to follow. I just don't feel that this information should be treated like a secret, or available only to those that know what to look for.
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      02-14-2013, 08:16 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
Yeah, again I will provide information for several options and remember this isn't going to be a kit you buy from a store front- if anything at all, I'd only need to provide the brackets. The rest of the parts can be bought from various suppliers and for those I would supply part numbers, quantities, lengths etc in a format that is easy to follow. I just don't feel that this information should be treated like a secret, or available only to those that know what to look for.
Sounds good to me
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      02-14-2013, 02:17 PM   #39
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Minus the fab costs for the brackets (since I haven't done them yet), I have some preliminary numbers that are interesting:

Equivalent "stage 2" kit using a 34-row Setrab core while utilizing the stock thermostat (if you already have one): $490 This is the cheapest option unless you want a smaller core, but I don't recommend that.

Same as above with a 180 degree external thermostat bypassing the stock one: $763. This could be lowered to $617 using an alternative thermostat bypass method I will be testing on my car before recommending it.

This is using push-lock hoses and ends to save money where it doesn't matter.

Compare these prices to other 34-row Setrab kits and savings is anywhere from $240-$440 depending on configuration. This is assuming a $100 mounting kit cost (again, I have no idea on that yet since I haven't fabbed it up yet).

Thoughts?

Last edited by ashmostro; 02-15-2013 at 10:07 AM.
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      02-14-2013, 05:09 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
Minus the fab costs for the brackets (since I haven't done them yet), I have some preliminary numbers that are interesting:

Equivalent "stage 2" kit using a 34-row Setrab core while utilizing the stock thermostat (if you already have one): $560 This is the cheapest option unless you want a smaller core, but I don't recommend that.

Same as above with a 180 degree external thermostat bypassing the stock one: $763. This could be lowered to $617 using an alternative thermostat bypass method I will be testing on my car before recommending it.

This is using push-lock hoses and ends to save money where it doesn't matter.

Compare these prices to other 34-row Setrab kits and savings is anywhere from $240-$440 depending on configuration. This is assuming a $100 mounting kit cost (again, I have no idea on that yet since I haven't fabbed it up yet).

Thoughts?
Sounds great!
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      02-15-2013, 08:47 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
Minus the fab costs for the brackets (since I haven't done them yet), I have some preliminary numbers that are interesting:

Equivalent "stage 2" kit using a 34-row Setrab core while utilizing the stock thermostat (if you already have one): $560 This is the cheapest option unless you want a smaller core, but I don't recommend that.

Same as above with a 180 degree external thermostat bypassing the stock one: $763. This could be lowered to $617 using an alternative thermostat bypass method I will be testing on my car before recommending it.

This is using push-lock hoses and ends to save money where it doesn't matter.

Compare these prices to other 34-row Setrab kits and savings is anywhere from $240-$440 depending on configuration. This is assuming a $100 mounting kit cost (again, I have no idea on that yet since I haven't fabbed it up yet).

Thoughts?
get to it! I'm excited for the bracket
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      02-15-2013, 09:02 AM   #42
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RRT Racing fabricated a Setrab-based oil cooler for my 1M using the largest core that could fit.

Ducting is critical to ensure optimal efficiency -- not only to the front,but also vented in the rear. Inasmuch as you don't want a large hole behind the cooler in the wheel well liner (cause stuff kicked up from the tires will clog and possibly damage the cooler), some sort of louvres are necessary.

You might also want to consider running the oil lines from either the top or side of the oil cooler to keep them out of harms way.

Good luck!

Neil
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      02-15-2013, 10:09 AM   #43
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Looks like I had a math error in my spreadsheet! The factory thermostat option is lower than I stated initially- it's coming out to $490, not $560 (again, not yet including brackets).

I've ordered the rest of the parts I need so now it's a waiting game, but I will keep you all updated!

And agreed on the above- the importance of ducting and fender well protection are not lost on me. I just want to get the core successfully mounted up first, then I'll work on the ducting solution.
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      02-17-2013, 09:04 PM   #44
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