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      02-13-2013, 04:54 PM   #111
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Traffic is a misery no matter if you have AUTO or MANUAL. I've been driving manual cars for many years now and traffic is not really a problem. Sure sometimes automatic is nice, but most of the time its not.

I suppose some of you are in daily traffic 2-3 or maybe even 4 hours per day....I feel sorry for you even with automatic tranny.

I thank God everyday that my current job is opposite way from all traffic jams I am sure my car is thankful too !
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      02-13-2013, 06:34 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbon View Post
With Auto-Sport mode and Paddle Shifters I don't miss manual at all.

We've just hit the point in car tech where auto-tranny's with sports shifting mode are faster than humans in a manual.
I think the feel of a clutch makes a huge difference. I drive with the tiptronic, but its just not the same at all...
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      02-13-2013, 08:39 PM   #113
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Traffic is a non issue here. This about MT vs AT and which fee,s better. I doubt any of us would want a AT for the engaged driving feeling.
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      02-14-2013, 10:18 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozhdbog View Post
Why do you think that?
Car magazines and BMW testers are going to use different testing methods. But why would BMW use testing methods that favor one transmission over another? They are going to test all the cars under the same conditions and using the same testing methods.

I know Road & Track tries different methods to see which one gets the best acceleration time. In their E90 335i test, they said dropping the clutch at 4500 rpm got the best times.

It's important to check to see if magazine test numbers state the altitude and temperature that the test wast conducted at. Road & Track does that. Not sure about the other magazines.

From my experience of my old car-magazine-reading days, Car and Driver tends to get the fastest times:

Car and Driver: 2007 E92 335i 6MT:
0-60: 4.9
5-60: 5.6 "street start"
1/4mi: 13.6 @ 105 mph
50-70 mph in 6th gear: 6.0

Road & Track: 2007 E90 335i 6MT:
0-60: 5.0
1/4mi: 13.5 @ 104.5 mph
Location: Irvine, CA
Temp: 84F
Humidity: 15%
Elevation: 350 ft

Both magazines tested the 335i faster than BMW's numbers. I'll see what other numbers I turn up, including some 6AT numbers.
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      02-14-2013, 10:31 PM   #115
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My knees are definitely pro-auto box...I haven't regretted buying the auto until just today, in fact, when I got a $900 quote from my shop to do a 60K mile auto transmission service!
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      02-15-2013, 12:16 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chromisdesigns View Post
My knees are definitely pro-auto box...I haven't regretted buying the auto until just today, in fact, when I got a $900 quote from my shop to do a 60K mile auto transmission service!
You're going to hate me... I paid $50.50 in labor (at The M Shop in Glendale, CA), and about $70.00 for two liters of MTF-LT-3 (purchased from another forum member that bought a 5L jug and sold me the rest after doing his oil change himself).

I did my 6MT oil at 50k (bought the car with 43k). Next change will be at 80k.

Didn't DIY because my garage is too small to jack up the E92 level to do the job. I did do my own differential fluid change.

$900.- is steep, but a replacement transmission will be 5-10x the cost. Maybe you can get away without doing the full flush now (do the partial), and do full flush at 100k.
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      02-15-2013, 12:28 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54 View Post
You're going to hate me... I paid $50.50 in labor (at The M Shop in Glendale, CA), and about $70.00 for two liters of MTF-LT-3 (purchased from another forum member that bought a 5L jug and sold me the rest after doing his oil change himself).

I did my 6MT oil at 50k (bought the car with 43k). Next change will be at 80k.

Didn't DIY because my garage is too small to jack up the E92 level to do the job. I did do my own differential fluid change.

$900.- is steep, but a replacement transmission will be 5-10x the cost. Maybe you can get away without doing the full flush now (do the partial), and do full flush at 100k.
Yeah, it was a bit of a shock...our old E36 M3 was also an auto, and we changed the fluid and filter twice, once at 60K and again at 120K, and it was WAY cheaper, because you didn't have to replace the friggin' pan just to get a new filter. When we sold it to our mechanic after buying the 335i, the auto box in the M3 was still solid with over 140K miles on it.

Little did we know what we were in for this time around...!
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      02-15-2013, 10:43 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chromisdesigns View Post
Yeah, it was a bit of a shock...
That price shocked me That's like the cost of a new clutch every fluid change.

You might want to e-mail Mike Miller and ask for the latest version of the "Lifetime Maintenance Schedule". There is an extensive section about transmission oil changes in there. OR PM me with your e-mail and I'll send you the version I have which is likely the latest version.

I think if you do the transmission maintenance now you'll be one of the few that will be driving past 150k on the original auto tranny without major service being needed.

BTW, I always thought there was a way to hook up an auto tranny to a device that would circulate the oil so that a thorough oil change could be done. Might want to ask around about that.
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      02-15-2013, 03:45 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54 View Post
Car magazines and BMW testers are going to use different testing methods. But why would BMW use testing methods that favor one transmission over another? They are going to test all the cars under the same conditions and using the same testing methods.

I know Road & Track tries different methods to see which one gets the best acceleration time. In their E90 335i test, they said dropping the clutch at 4500 rpm got the best times.

It's important to check to see if magazine test numbers state the altitude and temperature that the test wast conducted at. Road & Track does that. Not sure about the other magazines.

From my experience of my old car-magazine-reading days, Car and Driver tends to get the fastest times:

Car and Driver: 2007 E92 335i 6MT:
0-60: 4.9
5-60: 5.6 "street start"
1/4mi: 13.6 @ 105 mph
50-70 mph in 6th gear: 6.0

Road & Track: 2007 E90 335i 6MT:
0-60: 5.0
1/4mi: 13.5 @ 104.5 mph
Location: Irvine, CA
Temp: 84F
Humidity: 15%
Elevation: 350 ft

Both magazines tested the 335i faster than BMW's numbers. I'll see what other numbers I turn up, including some 6AT numbers.
Some automatic numbers from the same mag:
2007 335i Coupe #1
Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 12.1 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.6 sec
Standing ,¼-mile: 13.6 sec @ 105 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 144 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 160 ft

2007 335i Coupe #2
Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 12.1 sec
Zero to 140 mph: 26.7 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.5 sec
Standing -mile: 13.4 sec @ 106 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 145 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 156 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.91 g

2011 335i Sedan #
Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec
Standing -mile: 13.5 sec
Top speed (governor limited): 130 mph (150 mph with Sport package)
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      02-15-2013, 04:13 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54 View Post
That price shocked me That's like the cost of a new clutch every fluid change.

<<snip>>

BTW, I always thought there was a way to hook up an auto tranny to a device that would circulate the oil so that a thorough oil change could be done. Might want to ask around about that.
Apparently not on this transmission. From what I understand, the torque converter retains a substantial portion of the fluid and it doesn't circulate to the rest unless actually in use. Both the fill and drain ports are in the other part of the box, so even if you hooked up a pump, there would be no reason for the fluid to flow through the torque converter.
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      02-15-2013, 04:16 PM   #121
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nope. loved my auto 335i and moreso in my M3.
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      02-15-2013, 05:18 PM   #122
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some days I love the Auto, most days I hate it!
I'm with you that 6mt gives you more feel and better experience.
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      02-16-2013, 12:36 AM   #123
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Every other BMW I had except my E90 and an old E34 were 5 speeds and all of them were probably driven 5000 miles a year because I drove my auto cars more often because of Atlanta traffic. My last E34 5 speed was driven 3000 miles during the year I had it.

The next older BMW I build will have a 5 speed though.
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      02-16-2013, 08:09 AM   #124
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I love driving my 6MT... Took me forever to find the right one though.

Been driving manual for awhile now, kinda feels automatic to me know in a sense. I'm sure a lot of you 6MT drivers out there feel the same.
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      02-16-2013, 11:56 AM   #125
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Can't believe no one has ever mentioned this in other MT vs AT threads:

With MT, you're not able to hold your girl's hands for an extended period of time while driving!
... did that all the time in my previous AT car and took it for granted.

Other than that, MT > AT all day everyday
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      02-16-2013, 02:49 PM   #126
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Can't believe no one has ever mentioned this in other MT vs AT threads:

With MT, you're not able to hold your girl's hands for an extended period of time while driving!
... did that all the time in my previous AT car and took it for granted.
My GF loves to do this. I just put her hand on the shift knob and put my hand over hers. I told her she is going to have to do the driving if we ever travel to England and rent a car with a manual transmission. She's got a lot of experience in left-hand-shifing.

I won't argue that it wouldn't be easier to do the above with an automatic. And a short-shifter or short shift knob is a must!
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      02-16-2013, 02:52 PM   #127
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With MT, you're not able to hold your girl's hands for an extended period of time while driving!

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      02-16-2013, 04:13 PM   #128
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I wish I had a manual when I am driving on twisty open roads. However, daily traffic gridlock that I endure everyday makes me glad I do not have a manual.

Also, even though I have taught my wife long time back how to drive manual. She refuses to drive manual. So I am OK with auto for now. I do want a DCT it would be nice compromise between the two.
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      02-16-2013, 04:23 PM   #129
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Never regretted it. My previous Bimmer was manual and it was pain in constant stop'n go traffic we get daily.

The excellent Steptronic gives me all the control I need on the RPM. I use M/DS mode about all the time. I even lift throttle between shifts just for the fun of it. Once accustomed to it, it is very enjoyable. Most manumatics just suck, but not this one.

Frankly, I no longer see a point in that 3rd pedal. I wouldn't say this about our 2012 manual Civic.
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      02-16-2013, 04:30 PM   #130
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Never regretted it. My previous Bimmer was manual and it was pain in constant stop'n go traffic we get daily.

The excellent Steptronic gives me all the control I need on the RPM. I use M/DS mode about all the time. I even lift throttle between shifts just for the fun of it. Once accustomed to it, it is very enjoyable. Most manumatics just suck, but not this one.

Frankly, I no longer see a point in that 3rd pedal. I wouldn't say this about our 2012 manual Civic.
Lifting between shifts is the only way to drive that thing in m/ds. Shifts are brutal unless accelerating hard.
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      02-16-2013, 05:27 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozhdbog View Post
Some automatic numbers from the same mag:
OK Dozhdbog, I finally had some time to go through Car and Driver's website and look up all their 335i tests, and they did plenty!

So, since we have test data for both transmissions from the same tester, we have a fairly objective alternative to BMW's test data.

So we finally have a pretty reliable answer to which is faster, the 335i with 6 Speed Manual or 335i with 6 Speed Steptronic Auto...

Drumroll...

NEITHER ONE IS CLEARLY FASTER THAN THE OTHER!

Take a look at the following test data. Note that there is only one test where the car definitely had the Steptronic. In the other test (noted) both transmissions are listed in the data panel and the article text does not clear this up.

Some of the tests suggest that the 6MT might be slightly faster, since there are two tests with a 0-60 result of 4.8 seconds, both are 6MT. But I think 0.1 sec is probably the margin of error, and if you scan the data you can see 0.1 sec variations in the other acceleration tests, going both ways. To me 0.1 seconds is just not a significant difference.

Note that the 335is, with +20 HP, +70 lb-ft of torque on overboost, and DCT, only beats the fastest 335i 0-60 time by 0.2 seconds.

But if there is one point that is going to have to be conclusively settled, is that the 6MT 335i is not slower than the 6AT 335i. There is no way you can twist the data to support a claim that the 6MT is slower.

Here is the data:

Quote:
September 2006
2007 E90 335i Sedan 6MT

VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan

PRICE AS TESTED: $44,445 (base price: $39,395)

ENGINE TYPE: N54 twin-turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 24-valve inline-6, aluminum block and head, direct fuel injection
Displacement: 182 cu in, 2979cc
Power (SAE net): 300 bhp @ 5800 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 300 lb-ft @ 1400 rpm

TRANSMISSION: 6-speed manual

DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 108.7 in Length: 178.2 in Width: 71.5 in Height: 55.9 in
Curb weight: 3616 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS:

Zero to 60 mph: 4.8 sec

Zero to 100 mph: 11.8 sec

Zero to 140 mph: 26.1 sec

Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.6 sec

Standing ,¼-mile: 13.5 sec @ 106 mph

Top speed (governor limited): 145 mph

Braking, 70-0 mph: 157 ft

Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.89 g

***
October 2006 (NOTE: It is not clear if the test data is from a 6MT or 6AT. both transmissions are listed in the data panel and the article text does not clear this up)

2007 E92 335i Coupe

VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, rear- or 4-wheel-drive, 4-passenger, 2-door coupe

BASE PRICE: $35,995-$41,295

ENGINES: DOHC 24-valve 3.0-liter inline-6, 230 hp, 200 lb-ft; twin-turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 24-valve 3.0-liter inline-6, 300 hp, 300 lb-ft

TRANSMISSIONS: 6-speed automatic with manumatic shifting, 6-speed manual

DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 108.7 in Length: 180.3 in Width: 70.2 in Height: 54.1-54.2 in
Curb weight: 3400-3600 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS (335i):

Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec

Zero to 100 mph: 12.1 sec

Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.6 sec

Standing ,¼-mile: 13.6 sec @ 105 mph

Top speed (governor limited): 144 mph

Braking, 70-0 mph: 160 ft

***
July 2007

2007 E92 335i Coupe 6AT

VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 4-passenger, 2-door coupe

PRICE AS TESTED: $49,675 (base price: $42,850)

ENGINE TYPE: N54 twin-turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 24-valve inline-6, aluminum block and head, direct fuel injection
Displacement: 182 cu in, 2979cc
Power (SAE net): 300 bhp @ 5800 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 300 lb-ft @ 1400 rpm

TRANSMISSION: 6-speed automatic with manumatic shifting

DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 108.7 in Length: 180.6 in Width: 70.2 in Height: 54.1 in
Curb weight: 3584 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS:

Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec

Zero to 100 mph: 12.1 sec

Zero to 140 mph: 26.7 sec

Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.5 sec

Standing ,¼-mile: 13.4 sec @ 106 mph

Top speed (governor limited): 145 mph

Braking, 70-0 mph: 156 ft

Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.91 g

***
July 2010

2011 E92 335is 7DCT

VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 4-passenger, 2-door coupe

PRICE AS TESTED: $59,025 (base price: $50,525)

ENGINE TYPE: twin-turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 24-valve inline-6, aluminum block and head, direct fuel injection
Displacement: 182 cu in, 2979 cc
Power (SAE net): 320 bhp @ 5900 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 370 lb-ft @ 1500 rpm

TRANSMISSION: 7-speed DCT dual-clutch automated manual

DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 108.7 in Length: 181.9 in
Width: 70.2 in Height: 54.1 in
Curb weight: 3572 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS: 

Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec

Zero to 100 mph: 11.4 sec

Zero to 140 mph: 25.7 sec

Street start, 560 mph: 5.0 sec

Standing -mile: 13.3 sec @ 108 mph

Top speed (governor limited): 148 mph

Braking, 700 mph: 169 ft

Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.93 g

***
September 2010

2011 E90 335i Sedan LCI 6MT
Options: ZSP, CA, 6FL

VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan

PRICE AS TESTED: $45,075 (base price: $41,475)

ENGINE TYPE: N55 turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 24-valve inline-6, aluminum block and head, direct fuel injection
Displacement: 182 cu in, 2979 cc
Power (SAE net): 300 bhp @ 5800 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 300 lb-ft @ 1200 rpm

TRANSMISSION: 6-speed manual

DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 108.7 in Length: 178.8 in
Width: 71.5 in Height: 55.9 in
Curb weight: 3514 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.8 sec

Zero to 100 mph: 11.7 sec

Zero to 130 mph: 20.7 sec

Street start, 560 mph: 5.5 sec

Standing -mile: 13.6 sec @ 106 mph

Top speed (governor limited): 155 mph

Braking, 700 mph: 168 ft

Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.89 g
***
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      02-16-2013, 05:40 PM   #132
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I had to travel 300+ miles to get my manual e92. I have had around 12 Bmws with 9 of them being manual. I have never broken a manual tranny and I drive cars pretty hard. I realize the auto does have some advantages but I feel a lot safer modding a manual car. These cars are not underpowered at all. I can zip around downtown Louisville without moving the shifter out of 2nd gear. On the expressway I leave it in 6th and have enough ass to pass people from 50mph on up. There really is no hunt for gears with a car this powerful. Now if this was a 1984 318i, that would be a much different story. Lol FWIW Im thinking of buying a Gmc Syclone/Typhoon which are automatics...
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