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      02-15-2013, 10:29 PM   #1
rclee820
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BMW Warranty, who does burden of proof fall on?

So earlier this week, I purchased a CPO vehicle from a dealership that is over an hour away from me. The vehicle is also still covered under the factory BMW warranty. I noticed that the headlights were aimed far too low, so I took it to my local dealership to have a look. They informed me that the ball joints for auto-leveling of the headlights have popped out of their sockets in both headlights, and that both headlights will have to be replaced. They said that they couldn't cover this under warranty because they've seen problems like this in the past where it's caused by hitting a large pothole or other depression in the road. I asked if there was evidence that that a pothole was hit, and they said no. They said that there's usually a bent rim, or a bubble in the tire to indicate such an incident, but that I had none of these. They're reasoning was that the other dealership could have fixed the rim and tire before selling the vehicle. They provided no proof that I or anyone else for that matter caused this issue, and they could not say with absolute certainty that this was not a product defect in material or workmanship.

My question is this: Can they deny my warranty coverage of the headlights without proof of causation?

It seems that they're logic of "it could have been a pothole so we're not covering it" could be applied to just about anything. Without the burden of proof falling on the dealership, they could essentially decline every warranty repair request with crap like "it could have been a pothole". Am I wrong?

Note: The dealership that sold me this vehicle has already replaced both headlights. I'm just seeking the opinion of others, because I feel strongly that I should escalate the questionable actions of my local BMW dealership.
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      02-16-2013, 09:58 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by rclee820 View Post
So earlier this week, I purchased a CPO vehicle from a dealership that is over an hour away from me. The vehicle is also still covered under the factory BMW warranty. I noticed that the headlights were aimed far too low, so I took it to my local dealership to have a look. They informed me that the ball joints for auto-leveling of the headlights have popped out of their sockets in both headlights, and that both headlights will have to be replaced. They said that they couldn't cover this under warranty because they've seen problems like this in the past where it's caused by hitting a large pothole or other depression in the road. I asked if there was evidence that that a pothole was hit, and they said no. They said that there's usually a bent rim, or a bubble in the tire to indicate such an incident, but that I had none of these. They're reasoning was that the other dealership could have fixed the rim and tire before selling the vehicle. They provided no proof that I or anyone else for that matter caused this issue, and they could not say with absolute certainty that this was not a product defect in material or workmanship.

My question is this: Can they deny my warranty coverage of the headlights without proof of causation?

It seems that they're logic of "it could have been a pothole so we're not covering it" could be applied to just about anything. Without the burden of proof falling on the dealership, they could essentially decline every warranty repair request with crap like "it could have been a pothole". Am I wrong?

Note: The dealership that sold me this vehicle has already replaced both headlights. I'm just seeking the opinion of others, because I feel strongly that I should escalate the questionable actions of my local BMW dealership.
If that happened to me I would probably start screaming the F word as loud as I could scaring off customers until they fixed it. Who the hell do these people think they are? The cars they manufacture are so shitty that they can't even hit a pothole and not break? If you had 4 broken rims and your headlights messed up, I think they should still fix your damn lights.

My lights are aimed low and I'm still under factory warranty I'm taking it in on Tuesday and I hope they try to tell me some shit like this!
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      02-16-2013, 10:07 AM   #3
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Wow, I would be livid, especially since you just purchased the car. I have read other posts with similar stories (regarding the broken or misaligned headlight) where the dealer fixed/replaced the necessary parts w/o hassle.

I would first try to get ahold of the service manager. If that ends up being futile, I would take the car to the next nearest dealership for service.
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      02-16-2013, 10:18 AM   #4
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After driving all the way back to the dealership that sold me the vehicle, they took care of the problem without any fuss while I waited. I would just like to get my facts in order and determine what consumer rights I have regarding the shady practice of my local dealership. I feel it's necessary to bring to light their questionable actions, even if it means getting the state AG's office involved.
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      02-16-2013, 11:31 AM   #5
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They always do this crap.. Then when it is out of warranty they find tons of problems lol!
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      02-16-2013, 11:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericfox11 View Post
If that happened to me I would probably start screaming the F word as loud as I could scaring off customers until they fixed it. Who the hell do these people think they are? The cars they manufacture are so shitty that they can't even hit a pothole and not break? If you had 4 broken rims and your headlights messed up, I think they should still fix your damn lights.

My lights are aimed low and I'm still under factory warranty I'm taking it in on Tuesday and I hope they try to tell me some shit like this!
How old are you? If you want to make sure your SA hates you and will never, ever go out of their way to help you out in the future, you should act this way.

Being civil, patient, and persistent are the keys to getting what you want. Pitching a fit like a toddler certainly won't convince anyone to change their minds.
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      02-16-2013, 11:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rclee820 View Post
So earlier this week, I purchased a CPO vehicle from a dealership that is over an hour away from me. The vehicle is also still covered under the factory BMW warranty. I noticed that the headlights were aimed far too low, so I took it to my local dealership to have a look. They informed me that the ball joints for auto-leveling of the headlights have popped out of their sockets in both headlights, and that both headlights will have to be replaced. They said that they couldn't cover this under warranty because they've seen problems like this in the past where it's caused by hitting a large pothole or other depression in the road. I asked if there was evidence that that a pothole was hit, and they said no. They said that there's usually a bent rim, or a bubble in the tire to indicate such an incident, but that I had none of these. They're reasoning was that the other dealership could have fixed the rim and tire before selling the vehicle. They provided no proof that I or anyone else for that matter caused this issue, and they could not say with absolute certainty that this was not a product defect in material or workmanship.

My question is this: Can they deny my warranty coverage of the headlights without proof of causation?

It seems that they're logic of "it could have been a pothole so we're not covering it" could be applied to just about anything. Without the burden of proof falling on the dealership, they could essentially decline every warranty repair request with crap like "it could have been a pothole". Am I wrong?

Note: The dealership that sold me this vehicle has already replaced both headlights. I'm just seeking the opinion of others, because I feel strongly that I should escalate the questionable actions of my local BMW dealership.
i lost count to how many times i had my headlights replace. 5 or 6 times if i'm not mistaken, not once they gave me crap about it. true i may have hit a few minor pot holes but, its not my fault that BMW put those fragile or poor built headlight on a car without accounting for the possibilities of driving on uneven road or pavement. the roads in Germany might be nice and smooth but here in the states our roads are crap specially here in NJ. i have seen a lot of BMW with broken headlights. why is that ? if not poor built. other cars hit a pot hole comes out unscathed, BMW hit a potholes expect a God damn broken headlight.
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      02-16-2013, 12:12 PM   #8
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First, it sucks that your local dealers an ass, but I am glad for you that the selling dealer took care of you.

For the guy complaining about the dealer making a bad car, you are an idiot, the dealer doesn't make the car they sell it and get paid from the factory to fix it. If you think they are poorly made, kick rocks cause you bought a car you think is crap.
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      02-16-2013, 12:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rclee820 View Post
So earlier this week, I purchased a CPO vehicle from a dealership that is over an hour away from me. The vehicle is also still covered under the factory BMW warranty. I noticed that the headlights were aimed far too low, so I took it to my local dealership to have a look. They informed me that the ball joints for auto-leveling of the headlights have popped out of their sockets in both headlights, and that both headlights will have to be replaced. They said that they couldn't cover this under warranty because they've seen problems like this in the past where it's caused by hitting a large pothole or other depression in the road. I asked if there was evidence that that a pothole was hit, and they said no. They said that there's usually a bent rim, or a bubble in the tire to indicate such an incident, but that I had none of these. They're reasoning was that the other dealership could have fixed the rim and tire before selling the vehicle. They provided no proof that I or anyone else for that matter caused this issue, and they could not say with absolute certainty that this was not a product defect in material or workmanship.

My question is this: Can they deny my warranty coverage of the headlights without proof of causation?

It seems that they're logic of "it could have been a pothole so we're not covering it" could be applied to just about anything. Without the burden of proof falling on the dealership, they could essentially decline every warranty repair request with crap like "it could have been a pothole". Am I wrong?

Note: The dealership that sold me this vehicle has already replaced both headlights. I'm just seeking the opinion of others, because I feel strongly that I should escalate the questionable actions of my local BMW dealership.
this happened to me with my left headlight and i got the runaround for a long time too brought the car back while they fiddled without fixing it 3 times. first they were trying to say nothing wrong, and then i drove it over to a wall and showed them it wasnt leveling, then they tried to ask if i had any accident which was no. finally they took it in. they leveled it with the other but it didnt go up and down. they actually said thats how it is supposed to be. btw f perillo bmw chicago. at which point i looked at my retarded service lady like a retarded special needs person. called a few people over and asked is this normal for one light to cycle at start up but not the other, her and the tech she called overs explanation was its normal because its already in the position it needs to be., at which said no. finally they took it back in and replaced the headlight. third time i went in to say f u.
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      02-16-2013, 12:58 PM   #10
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How old are you? If you want to make sure your SA hates you and will never, ever go out of their way to help you out in the future, you should act this way.

Being civil, patient, and persistent are the keys to getting what you want. Pitching a fit like a toddler certainly won't convince anyone to change their minds.
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      02-16-2013, 01:38 PM   #11
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The dealer is responsible for the product they sell...if they sell a car and then won't cover something under warranty blaming a pothole, they could blame anything on that. Oh your tubros blew? There was too much air around the car, and you might have hit a bump so we aren't covering it. That's ridiculous.

My point was that saying "oh the car hit a bump and broke so we won't cover it" is ridiculous. A car should be able to hit a bump and still be able to keep its headlights at a normal level.

And I was being sarcastic in my first post....I've gotten my GM dealer to cover two new engines outside of warranty, so I know being nice is the best way to handle it.
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      02-16-2013, 01:45 PM   #12
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Steve Jobs regarding the iPhone 4's antennagate - "You're holding it wrong"
BMW regarding replacing faulty headlights- "You're driving it wrong"
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      02-16-2013, 02:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rclee820 View Post
After driving all the way back to the dealership that sold me the vehicle, they took care of the problem without any fuss while I waited. I would just like to get my facts in order and determine what consumer rights I have regarding the shady practice of my local dealership. I feel it's necessary to bring to light their questionable actions, even if it means getting the state AG's office involved.
What was the actual fix?
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      02-16-2013, 03:44 PM   #14
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First, it sucks that your local dealers an ass, but I am glad for you that the selling dealer took care of you.

For the guy complaining about the dealer making a bad car, you are an idiot, the dealer doesn't make the car they sell it and get paid from the factory to fix it. If you think they are poorly made, kick rocks cause you bought a car you think is crap.
Did u even read the damn post. Can u point out where in the post i said the dealer made the car? and yes the headlights should have been built to withstand going over minor pot holes. many members on this forum can attest to the xenon headlights getting damage by going a over a bump.
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      02-16-2013, 04:11 PM   #15
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Go to the dealer you bought the car from. Even of its am hour. Or call them up ahead of time and tell them of the problem.
I bought my car and didn't see that the headlights were pointing down. 2 weeks after I called in and they tried to fix it and when they couldn't they just replaced the headlight.
So far I like my dealership
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      02-16-2013, 04:23 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by rclee820 View Post
After driving all the way back to the dealership that sold me the vehicle, they took care of the problem without any fuss while I waited. I would just like to get my facts in order and determine what consumer rights I have regarding the shady practice of my local dealership. I feel it's necessary to bring to light their questionable actions, even if it means getting the state AG's office involved.
Cars been fixed from the original dealer you bought it from for free so least its all fixed now. As for consumer rights, the dealer you took it to having broken any laws ect so apart from a letter of complaint to the bmw dealer/ warranty provider and a hope of a good will jesture there's not really much else you can't expect I'm afraid.

Kicking and screaming wont help, I'm a regional manager for a top 50 company yand if someone started swearing and kicking off I just switch off, won't help and just not them on. Be patient, polite and persistent, that will get a better response!
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      02-16-2013, 04:50 PM   #17
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Did u even read the damn post. Can u point out where in the post i said the dealer made the car? and yes the headlights should have been built to withstand going over minor pot holes. many members on this forum can attest to the xenon headlights getting damage by going a over a bump.
Haha, this gets even better, I was commenting on EricFox's post, not yours. He complained about the dealer not fixing the car they made and to go yell and scream at them.
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      02-16-2013, 06:22 PM   #18
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So earlier this week, I purchased a CPO vehicle from a dealership that is over an hour away from me. ....
To me this sounds like your local dealership is punishing you for not buying from them. The reasoning for not fixing is ridiculous and you can see that the dealership where you bought was helpful. But then again, your local dealer could just plain suck all the time, hard to tell.
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      02-16-2013, 06:40 PM   #19
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What was the actual fix?
The actual fix was replacing both headlights. The dealership I bought it from was just as surprised as I was about the "pothole" response.
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      02-16-2013, 06:41 PM   #20
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As for consumer rights, the dealer you took it to having broken any laws ect so apart from a letter of complaint to the bmw dealer/ warranty provider and a hope of a good will jesture there's not really much else you can't expect I'm afraid.
Doesn't the dealer have to provide me a valid reason as well as evidence to support their claim for not covering my headlights, which normally would fall under the warranty?
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