E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N55 Turbo Engine Tuning and Exhaust Modifications - 335i Tuning > Rattle From Engine Bay



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-29-2012, 07:32 PM   #23
Noncom23
First Lieutenant
 
Noncom23's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 335i Saphire Black
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas

Posts: 321
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slopp View Post
You better de-mod the shit out of that thing!
+ 1
__________________
Mike F
Noncom23 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2012, 08:02 PM   #24
kensk
Getting there...
 
kensk's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 e90 LCI
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

Posts: 84
iTrader: (2)

faulty dmtl pump leading to engine bay rattle

Subscribed.

I'm having the same exact problem. More often at cold starts. I know theyre not exactly connected to each other but i only started hearing the rattles just after i came back from the dealers. here's what happened to me.

i have 32k miles. 2011 lci e90 335i. Just recently, i started hearing it after i came back from the dealers with a faulty dmtl pump (got my car back 11/15). 2nd time this has happened in 3 weeks. the check engine light wouldnt turn off even after the first replacement. i ended up leaving my car at the shop for a whole week. The light doesn't come on anymore but i hear the rattle. (side note: my car is completely stock) so there's no way it could've been from mods.


Here's the tech report if it helps you in any way. I'm a bit concerned and it doesn't seem like they know what the problem is.

anyone else having dmtl pump problems? and possibly to rattles?
kensk is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-30-2012, 10:57 AM   #25
ronny214
New BMW Owner
 
ronny214's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 BMW 335i (e90) Black/Tan
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 363
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimks View Post
Subscribed.

I'm having the same exact problem. More often at cold starts. I know theyre not exactly connected to each other but i only started hearing the rattles just after i came back from the dealers. here's what happened to me.

i have 32k miles. 2011 lci e90 335i. Just recently, i started hearing it after i came back from the dealers with a faulty dmtl pump (got my car back 11/15). 2nd time this has happened in 3 weeks. the check engine light wouldnt turn off even after the first replacement. i ended up leaving my car at the shop for a whole week. The light doesn't come on anymore but i hear the rattle. (side note: my car is completely stock) so there's no way it could've been from mods.

Image removed from quote for space reasons...see previous post

Here's the tech report if it helps you in any way. I'm a bit concerned and it doesn't seem like they know what the problem is.

anyone else having dmtl pump problems? and possibly to rattles?
So you have the rattle/knocking noise from the engine bay, but no CEL? Here is what I know from the people and techs I've talked to. First let me start off by saying that my knocking/rattle sounds like a rock in a tin can and it happens at random. Sometimes it is very loud, sometimes it is very soft, and there is no rhythm to it. I also do not have an CEL or codes being thrown, so if you are similar situation, keep reading.

VANOS: The VANOS (Valvetronic System) deals with camshaft timing, and I believe that newer engines have a double Vanos. Single and Double VANOS systems due to age and mileage often experience performance issues as well as complete failure of the BMW OEM Buna-N VANOS piston seals (which are often successfully repaired by the use of aftermarket Viton seals to replace the OEM Buna-N seals). Another common effect is a rattling sound coming from the upper valve train assembly. The original seal material was found to be inferior for the application and tends to break down within 75k - 100k miles. VANOS Seal & Rattle kits are available to address these shortcomings from aftermarket suppliers (but not from BMWBMW's solution when VANOS units fail is to remove the entire VANOS unit and replace it with a new one). VANOS repair may require special tools (cooling fan clutch wrenches, etc.) that can be rented or purchased from a variety of vendors.

In addition to the rattling sound coming from the upper valve train assembly, you may experience CEL, engine codes, and I've heard from one source that your gas mileage can start to decrease. The source who told me this said their gas mileage went all the way to 7mpg before it failed. You may also experience white smoke from the tail pipes as the VANOS system continues to break down.

Solenoids: It is possible that you have a bad Exhaust Solenoids. There aren't as many cases of people experiencing the knocking, you would typically have a CEL light, but there are some instances in the N54 that the knocking occurred. The replacement of this part is much cheaper than replacing the entire VANOS system.

Rod Issue: Obviously this is the most extreme case, and the one that will suck most if you do not have a warranty. In this instance you either have a bent rod or a bad rod end bearing. A bent rod would make the knocking noise on a more rhythmic pattern, and it most likely speed up as you rev'ed the engine higher.

If it is the rod end bearing, it would cause the same symptoms the other two are causing and would increase in severity over time. The rod end bearing is a ball swivel at the end of the rod which something like a bolt or other hardware might pass through. With a bent rod you'll experience the knocking and at some point it is possible that you could throw the rod. The dealer said this is less likely to happen unless I were to do either an after market tune or a BMW Approved Performance Tune. If it is a rod end bearing then he said at any time that bearing could seize up and throw a rod. This would be the worst case because you're looking at your rod going right through the engine block.


Solutions


For the VANOS you have two options. Obviously if you are under warranty just leave it with BMW. You may have to tell them to change the VANOS for you because they can be fickle about properly diagnosing the issue and replacing it. If you are not under warranty, the suggestion would be to get one of the after-market seal knocking kits and upgrading the VANOS. You can also purchase the VANOS and install that, but I think that is a more expensive route to take.

For Solenoids you can buy new solenoids and just replace those. On the N54 engine I've heard they are really simple to replace, but I haven't seen anyone on the forums who have done the N55 engine..may be due to the fact that N55's probably are still mainly under warranty.

When it comes to Solenoids or VANOS you are kind of stabbing in the dark unless you get lucky and your DME throws a CEL code. If you can get a code reading it should narrow down what the issue is and save you some time and money.

For the rod issue. This one is more difficult. First if you are under warranty, which I hope you are, you should make the dealer follow this course of action:

1) Replace VANOS and make sure noise is still there
2) Replace Solenoids and make sure noise is still there
3) It's the rod

What you're hoping for here is that you can get lucky that it is one of the first two, and not the third one. If it is the third one you're at least leaving the dealer with some new parts on the car that may end up failing eventually.

For the rod most likely your dealer is going to drop a new engine, send your old one off to BMWNA, and let them refurbish the engine. The reason why is because on an Inline 6 it is hard for them to do a compression/leak down test on each cylinder to determine which one has the bad rod. At the end of the day it doesn't cost them anything extra to just drop a new engine in and then send your old one off to BMWNA to let them hook it up to their more advanced machines and quickly find the bad cylinder. If you do have a bad rod this is good for you because you now hopefully have a new VANOS, a new Solenoid(s), and a new engine in the car.

One thing you want to make sure of is that the dealership doesn't replace the VANOS and give you the car back with the knocking noise still there. So make sure you start it up with the tech, let it idle, do whatever you need to do to be reasonably sure it was fixed so you aren't spending more time going back to the dealer when you realize they didn't solve the issue. Most dealerships shouldn't mind because their techs get paid by BMWNA to do this work, as opposed to the dealers having to pay them, so dealers love it when they can keep their techs busy with warranty work...especially if non-warranty business is real slow it means that they can let BMWNA pay their employees for them.



One final thing. You may note that we have eliminated the wastegate issue. The reason for this is because a bad wastegate gives what is called wastegate rattle. The rattle noise that this makes is very distinctive and differs from the knocking of a bad VANOS or rod. The engine specialist at the dealership should be able to tell you right away if the noise you are hearing is wastegate rattle. If not, then refer to the advice in this thread to hopefully help you get the issue solved.

Obviously there may be some other issue, but if you're car is having the same problem mine is having these are the 3 issues we've narrowed it down to. The car goes into the shop on Tuesday, so hopefully it won't be long after that I hear something back as to what is causing the issue 100%. I hate guess work.
__________________
2011 E90 335i LCI // Jet Black / Beige Dakota Leather / Double-VANOS/ Premium / Sport
Mods // Cobb Stage 2+ Aggressive / ER Charge Pipe / AR 4" Down Pipe / AA FMIC / LUX H8 v3 Angel Eyes / HPB Interior LEDs / Wavetrac LSD
Other // Shell Rotella T6 5w40 / 18" APEX EC-7 Wheels (9" Front|9.5" Rear)
ronny214 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-30-2012, 02:37 PM   #26
Noncom23
First Lieutenant
 
Noncom23's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 335i Saphire Black
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas

Posts: 321
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Great post!
__________________
Mike F
Noncom23 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-30-2012, 04:42 PM   #27
Slops
Major General
 
Slops's Avatar
 
Drives: 2005 C55 AMG
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oxford

Posts: 5,339
iTrader: (2)

thanks for taking the time to post this up for us! Best of luck to you.
Slops is offline   South Africa
0
Reply With Quote
      12-02-2012, 08:01 AM   #28
Dark_Knight_335
Came to the N55 Darkside
 
Dark_Knight_335's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 335 E93 M-Sport
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY/NJ

Posts: 9,932
iTrader: (26)

I have one like a whirring rattle, but ironically it happens after 15-20 min of driving and the car needs to be fully warm. Sounds like it's coming through the dash.

I'm afraid the dealer won't address it because I have a Dinan stage III and a free flow Dinan exhaust too so they might blame the slight drone of the exhaust or the upgraded oil cooler intercooler and tune for it, though they are really not supposed to, since it was dealer installed to begin with. I had a video for mine too- ill upload it later for you guys to ponder.
Dark_Knight_335 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-02-2012, 10:01 AM   #29
Dark_Knight_335
Came to the N55 Darkside
 
Dark_Knight_335's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 335 E93 M-Sport
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY/NJ

Posts: 9,932
iTrader: (26)

Just posted a thread with a video fellas let me know what you think
Dark_Knight_335 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-02-2012, 10:32 PM   #30
ronin335xi
Private First Class
 
Drives: bmw335xi
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: portland or

Posts: 162
iTrader: (1)

the rattle is the waste gate. the dealer can tighten it. its not a big deal
ronin335xi is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-03-2012, 06:55 AM   #31
Dark_Knight_335
Came to the N55 Darkside
 
Dark_Knight_335's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 335 E93 M-Sport
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY/NJ

Posts: 9,932
iTrader: (26)

Waste gate? At 9700 miles?
Dark_Knight_335 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-03-2012, 10:14 AM   #32
ronny214
New BMW Owner
 
ronny214's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 BMW 335i (e90) Black/Tan
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 363
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Knight_335 View Post
Waste gate? At 9700 miles?
Definitely sounds like wastegate rattle to me. I've listened to a lot of videos in search of a solution for my problem, and every wastegate rattle video sounds like what you are hearing/showing us. Give this link a look: https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&...w=1187&bih=781

You'll see that just on e90post.com alone there are a lot of issues with wastegate rattle in the N55 engine, and the N54 for that matter, and there was one or two accounts where the rattle started under 5k miles.

If your dealer is worth their salt, you _SHOULD_ be able to go in and tell them that your wastegate is rattling and you think it needs tightened or replaced and they should do it no questions asked. Also, Dinan is a BMW approved so you shouldn't have any issues with them yanking ya around on warranty work.
__________________
2011 E90 335i LCI // Jet Black / Beige Dakota Leather / Double-VANOS/ Premium / Sport
Mods // Cobb Stage 2+ Aggressive / ER Charge Pipe / AR 4" Down Pipe / AA FMIC / LUX H8 v3 Angel Eyes / HPB Interior LEDs / Wavetrac LSD
Other // Shell Rotella T6 5w40 / 18" APEX EC-7 Wheels (9" Front|9.5" Rear)
ronny214 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-03-2012, 10:20 AM   #33
Dark_Knight_335
Came to the N55 Darkside
 
Dark_Knight_335's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 335 E93 M-Sport
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY/NJ

Posts: 9,932
iTrader: (26)

It does brother! Listen man, thanks for this. If I hear nothing of it I'll tell the SA to tighten / check the wg.
Dark_Knight_335 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 04:05 PM   #34
ronny214
New BMW Owner
 
ronny214's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 BMW 335i (e90) Black/Tan
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 363
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Just letting everyone know that the car has been in the shop for a week now. A few un-returned phone calls/messages, I'm still waiting to hear what the official diag is. Even then, we'll have to actually do the repair to see if it fixes it, but I'm fairly confident they'll guess correctly....hope so if they've had the car for a week now.

Continue to stand by and I'll let everyone know as soon as I hear something. :-/ Good note? I made the tech confirm the knocking noise before I left with the rental in hand, and he admitted hearing it to the SA/Service Manager who promptly recorded on the service slip that a tech had confirmed that there was a knocking noise.
__________________
2011 E90 335i LCI // Jet Black / Beige Dakota Leather / Double-VANOS/ Premium / Sport
Mods // Cobb Stage 2+ Aggressive / ER Charge Pipe / AR 4" Down Pipe / AA FMIC / LUX H8 v3 Angel Eyes / HPB Interior LEDs / Wavetrac LSD
Other // Shell Rotella T6 5w40 / 18" APEX EC-7 Wheels (9" Front|9.5" Rear)
ronny214 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 08:36 PM   #35
ronny214
New BMW Owner
 
ronny214's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 BMW 335i (e90) Black/Tan
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 363
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Service adviser asked if I liked my loaner car and if I wanted to keep it....not a good sign, right? He said they are STILL trying to identify what the knocking noise is being caused by. :-/
__________________
2011 E90 335i LCI // Jet Black / Beige Dakota Leather / Double-VANOS/ Premium / Sport
Mods // Cobb Stage 2+ Aggressive / ER Charge Pipe / AR 4" Down Pipe / AA FMIC / LUX H8 v3 Angel Eyes / HPB Interior LEDs / Wavetrac LSD
Other // Shell Rotella T6 5w40 / 18" APEX EC-7 Wheels (9" Front|9.5" Rear)
ronny214 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 09:03 PM   #36
Noncom23
First Lieutenant
 
Noncom23's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 335i Saphire Black
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas

Posts: 321
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny214 View Post
Service adviser asked if I liked my loaner car and if I wanted to keep it....not a good sign, right? He said they are STILL trying to identify what the knocking noise is being caused by. :-/
Thx for the update. Service is selling cars!
__________________
Mike F
Noncom23 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-11-2012, 09:58 AM   #37
ronny214
New BMW Owner
 
ronny214's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 BMW 335i (e90) Black/Tan
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 363
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Wasn't sure if he was joking or what, but the convo was:

"How do you like that loaner?"
"It's okay..for a diesel..."
"Do you want to keep it?"
"Uh...no. It is a little rough for me..."
"Oh ok, was going to see if you wanted to do an even trade."

Of course I couldn't have been driving a fully loaded M3 when he asked that question :-/
__________________
2011 E90 335i LCI // Jet Black / Beige Dakota Leather / Double-VANOS/ Premium / Sport
Mods // Cobb Stage 2+ Aggressive / ER Charge Pipe / AR 4" Down Pipe / AA FMIC / LUX H8 v3 Angel Eyes / HPB Interior LEDs / Wavetrac LSD
Other // Shell Rotella T6 5w40 / 18" APEX EC-7 Wheels (9" Front|9.5" Rear)
ronny214 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-12-2012, 10:00 AM   #38
Noncom23
First Lieutenant
 
Noncom23's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 335i Saphire Black
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas

Posts: 321
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny214 View Post
Wasn't sure if he was joking or what, but the convo was:

"How do you like that loaner?"
"It's okay..for a diesel..."
"Do you want to keep it?"
"Uh...no. It is a little rough for me..."
"Oh ok, was going to see if you wanted to do an even trade."

Of course I couldn't have been driving a fully loaded M3 when he asked that question :-/
Too wild. Keep ot in mind for
next time.
__________________
Mike F
Noncom23 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-12-2012, 12:14 PM   #39
ronny214
New BMW Owner
 
ronny214's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 BMW 335i (e90) Black/Tan
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 363
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Update:

Just heard from BMW. An Engineer Specialist was in the shop and they had him take a look at my car. Turns out that the Transmission is making a noise that is echoing up the engine and giving the illusion of rod knock. I pick the car up today and they call me to bring it back in a few weeks.

The part is custom ordered from Germany and shipped over. They'll drop the tranny and install the part. From what it sounds like the part is just a dampener because there is actually nothing wrong with the tranny, there is just something that is knocking. :-/

They also identified some other minor issues, like coolant leaking from the reserve take for example, that they have addressed already.

He said that they can't be 100% sure until the part is installed and they listen for the noise again, but he said that off the record he is 100% sure that this will solve the issues. So for now we will all assume that we found the issue and I'll re-bump this thread in a few weeks if it turns out to be something different!
__________________
2011 E90 335i LCI // Jet Black / Beige Dakota Leather / Double-VANOS/ Premium / Sport
Mods // Cobb Stage 2+ Aggressive / ER Charge Pipe / AR 4" Down Pipe / AA FMIC / LUX H8 v3 Angel Eyes / HPB Interior LEDs / Wavetrac LSD
Other // Shell Rotella T6 5w40 / 18" APEX EC-7 Wheels (9" Front|9.5" Rear)
ronny214 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-23-2012, 08:02 PM   #40
Dark_Knight_335
Came to the N55 Darkside
 
Dark_Knight_335's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 335 E93 M-Sport
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY/NJ

Posts: 9,932
iTrader: (26)

Subscribed. Going to make an appt after the New Year. I want to know the results and the service order etc and that part no. too! I swear if I hear another "CNR", I'm going to flip out! Getting sick of dealers blaming the Dinan as well. It's only the tune, an intercooler and an oil cooler FFS!
Dark_Knight_335 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-13-2013, 07:21 PM   #41
Dark_Knight_335
Came to the N55 Darkside
 
Dark_Knight_335's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 335 E93 M-Sport
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY/NJ

Posts: 9,932
iTrader: (26)

Any update Ronny?
Dark_Knight_335 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-16-2013, 03:26 PM   #42
ronny214
New BMW Owner
 
ronny214's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 BMW 335i (e90) Black/Tan
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 363
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Knight_335 View Post
Any update Ronny?
BMW got the rubber plug, on the tech out sheet it is called a rubber plug, and installed it within a day. So far I do not notice the rattle any more. They said it is possible that even with the plug it could come back. If that happens it means a new tranny...I just hope that if it DOES come back, it decides to do it BEFORE my warranty runs out....maybe I should go buy an extended.
__________________
2011 E90 335i LCI // Jet Black / Beige Dakota Leather / Double-VANOS/ Premium / Sport
Mods // Cobb Stage 2+ Aggressive / ER Charge Pipe / AR 4" Down Pipe / AA FMIC / LUX H8 v3 Angel Eyes / HPB Interior LEDs / Wavetrac LSD
Other // Shell Rotella T6 5w40 / 18" APEX EC-7 Wheels (9" Front|9.5" Rear)
ronny214 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-16-2013, 06:58 PM   #43
Juiced46
Major
 
Drives: 03 Turbo Cobra, 2011 335xi
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Wallingford CT

Posts: 1,027
iTrader: (3)

Wish I saw this thread sooner could have saved you some time. I cant believe they were trying to tell you its a rod bearing! This noise is common on E90s, F25s and a few other models. Its just noise transferred through the transmission, the plug sometimes fixes it. I have heard them MUCH louder. The fix to this is to "clock" the TQ converter. Meaning unbolt it from the flywheel and rotate it, rebolt it to the flywheel. This fixes it. FYI this only affects Auto cars, not manuals.
Juiced46 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2013, 12:32 PM   #44
ronny214
New BMW Owner
 
ronny214's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 BMW 335i (e90) Black/Tan
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 363
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
Wish I saw this thread sooner could have saved you some time. I cant believe they were trying to tell you its a rod bearing! This noise is common on E90s, F25s and a few other models. Its just noise transferred through the transmission, the plug sometimes fixes it. I have heard them MUCH louder. The fix to this is to "clock" the TQ converter. Meaning unbolt it from the flywheel and rotate it, rebolt it to the flywheel. This fixes it. FYI this only affects Auto cars, not manuals.
Yea they clocked the TQ and said it was slightly off, but it still didn't fix it. The dampener seems to have solved the issue...for now.
__________________
2011 E90 335i LCI // Jet Black / Beige Dakota Leather / Double-VANOS/ Premium / Sport
Mods // Cobb Stage 2+ Aggressive / ER Charge Pipe / AR 4" Down Pipe / AA FMIC / LUX H8 v3 Angel Eyes / HPB Interior LEDs / Wavetrac LSD
Other // Shell Rotella T6 5w40 / 18" APEX EC-7 Wheels (9" Front|9.5" Rear)
ronny214 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:21 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST