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      02-16-2013, 09:09 AM   #1
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New 335is owner

Pulled the trigger yesterday on a 6mt coupe. This will be part daily driver, part track car (about 1 trip a month). I was looking at e90 m3's and 335s as well as e36 m3s and bought this. Go figure, am I out of my mind? A few questions...

Any known common issues running on the track? Things to look out for?

Tires- do you guys go down to 18's non rft?
Suspension- what upgrades provide the most bang for the buck?
Intake upgrades?
I will probably eventually go with a Cobb or other tuning device but a bit down the road.

Any help would be appreciated. I attached a pic.
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      02-16-2013, 09:11 AM   #2
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Oh yea, brake pads. What are you guys using?
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      02-16-2013, 09:18 AM   #3
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Congrats on the new car. Right now, I wouldn't really do any upgrades at all until your skills on track have improved enough to warrant going faster, stopping sooner, cornering harder etc. You just bought a new car, so why wrap it around a tire wall? You have the luxury of having bought this car, at the end of its production cycle where we've all done our mods, and understand how the car functions. Just get into the novice group, get a good instructor, and have fun. When you feel like you are up to the pace of the intermediate group, and can hang with them without an instructors help, then come back, and ask me or any one of us, and we'll be more than happy to give you a list of mods, that you can do all at once.
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      02-16-2013, 10:24 AM   #4
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Killerfish, thanks for the comments and fully understand what you are saying. I should have been more clear on my experience level. I co- founded a business in Atlanta called Velocity Motorsports and we provide driving experiences in our Porsche 911 S or Ferrari 430 (think exotics racing in Vegas). I'm not involved day to day, but I do like to get up to the track from time to time and our company cars are generally booked (good problem to have and we are about to add to the fleet). Plus, it's not fair that I burn thru company tires, brakes and gas. So I wanted a daily driver that I could run laps in.

That said, my biggest fear is that I will push this car beyond its capabilities given my experience in the other cars. So I plan to take it slow in the car at first, particularly braking as the brakes in that porsche are like nothing else. I attached a pic for your enjoyment.
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      02-16-2013, 03:26 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by dachtor View Post
Killerfish, thanks for the comments and fully understand what you are saying. I should have been more clear on my experience level.
As an experienced driver, I have to be brutally honest with you. The 335is was a very poor choice for a track car. Since you are already experienced, you can just throw on the mods now, so you can start to adjust to the way it drives on the track right away. You'll need the following to even begin to partially mimic the way the porsche drives on the track, and even then, keep in mind that this vehicle will give you a lot of headaches, and perform poorly at the track, especially during the summer months:

1. complete M3 suspension conversion (control arms, sway bars, rear subframe bushings)
2. KW coilover suspension, or at the very least, Koni yellow shocks
3. cross drilled rotors, and upgraded pads
4. Limited slip differential
5. After market oil cooler (Stett, or ER)
6. cobb AP or other flash tune
7. FMIC, catless Down pipes, Cat back exhaust (optional), Intake or upgraded filter, 02 sims for emissions
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      02-16-2013, 06:52 PM   #6
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Yes it takes a deep pocket to get the 335(is) track ready. Basically, there's only a handful components which can be left untouched, but from suspension to brakes, cooling to power, chassis to weight reduction etc etc...it's a long way. If you stick to it though, the car has the potential to be very fast and a whole lotta fun on the track!
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      02-16-2013, 11:32 PM   #7
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great color first of all. Really shows the lines well especially at night and grows-in on you, the Titanium Silver.

Now, with all due respect to your experience and profession dealing with exotics, I don't think you'll be able to push the new car to the limit, so much that you'd have to modify anything at least for the first year if you're going only once a month. But I'm just generalizing here; you might have an exceptional learning curve, so no offense please.

Another thing I wanted to mention (not to OP at all, but) to the board for once since there's been a number of interests lately regarding track-prepping E9x and how these cars are not good at track... well, relative to some other cars out there, yes, that seems to be correct up to a certain extent, but really all these things are ultimately irrelevant. If Michael Schumacher drove my car completely stock, I'm willing to bet that he'd be faster in one session than myself in a M3 DTM car having practiced all day long, all the while constantly coping in his own way to minimize brake/engine/tire overheating or whatever else problem he may face. I personally believe it's all about how one can make one's car "dance" on the limit of a provided set of equipment, while "managing the situation," if you will.

Sorry, back on topic...
Brake pads and fluids first, then tires, then stg 1 tune w/ cooling, then coils.
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      02-16-2013, 11:47 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by wonho View Post
Another thing I wanted to mention (not to OP at all, but) to the board for once since there's been a number of interests lately regarding track-prepping E9x and how these cars are not good at track... well, relative to some other cars out there, yes, that seems to be correct up to a certain extent, but really all these things are ultimately irrelevant. If Michael Schumacher drove my car completely stock, I'm willing to bet that he'd be faster in one session than myself in a M3 DTM car having practiced all day long, all the while constantly coping in his own way to minimize brake/engine/tire overheating or whatever else problem he may face. I personally believe it's all about how one can make one's car "dance" on the limit of a provided set of equipment, while "managing the situation," if you will.
This car is neither a track car, nor a street/track car. It was built for the street, period. You can buy a used 2011 mustang for less than 20K, put on nittos, and run the same exact time as my car, with all my mods so far (approaching 10K in parts and labor)-LSD, without any heating issues whatsoever. Read: no hosing down your radiator inbetween sessions. Put 2K in the stang, and you will crush my 335I. It's a no brainer. OP should sell his car right away, before it looses any more value, and buy an M3.
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      02-17-2013, 06:52 PM   #9
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Well this sort of stinks. Thanks for all the input. I was really thinking I made a good compromise for a track capable car and a daily driver, without paying for an m3. I was ready to shell out a little money to get it more track suitable but now I'm questioning my decision. I don't expect it to be in the same league as the Porsche. That would just be silly, it's not a $110k car. But I was hoping it would be a good option, under warranty, car seats in the back and something I can have fun with.

That said, I was at the track today in the new ride and my initial impressions were that it was fun, but not impressive. I didnt push it too hard but the biggest concerns for me were the lousy run flat tires and grip, or lack thereof. I don't think I can really make a full assessment until I throw on some decent rubber. Those of you that have tracked this car, what tire setup have you settled with? I would get a 2nd set of rims to make this happen. Probably 18's (or 17's)? Braking was also a bit concerning, what have you guys done (shy of bbk) to improve braking? Any help would be much appreciated.
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      02-17-2013, 07:06 PM   #10
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I just don't see how the 335is cannot be a track car. What defines a track car? Obviously it will not perform like a Porsche or a Ferrari, but if you already know that, I don't see a problem. People track all sorts of cars.
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      02-17-2013, 07:18 PM   #11
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One thing you'll learn is these 335i guys love going on and on about how inadequate the car is for the track. KillerFish's post above details whats needed to have trouble-free tracking time... and it's not a small or especially cheap list.

But do the required cooling mods and an LSD and the car is fine. Have fun with it.
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      02-17-2013, 07:27 PM   #12
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So I haven't avoided the cooling mods necessary by getting the 335is? I know I sound like I didn't do my research and maybe I didn't when it comes to the "is".
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      02-17-2013, 08:27 PM   #13
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So I haven't avoided the cooling mods necessary by getting the 335is? I know I sound like I didn't do my research and maybe I didn't when it comes to the "is".
No, it needs oil cooling not additional radiator capacity. Despite what certain people will tell you, on a MT or DCT car, the oil overheats long before the coolant. Look into the stett stg 2 oil cooler or the ER competition coolers. Since you have the aux radiator on the drivers side, the stett might be a better choice.
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      02-17-2013, 11:11 PM   #14
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One thing you'll learn is these 335i guys love going on and on about how inadequate the car is for the track.
Some of us have owned this vehicle since it came out, and have over 100K miles on the odometer. It's wise to listen to us.
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      02-18-2013, 08:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
As an experienced driver, I have to be brutally honest with you. The 335is was a very poor choice for a track car. Since you are already experienced, you can just throw on the mods now, so you can start to adjust to the way it drives on the track right away. You'll need the following to even begin to partially mimic the way the porsche drives on the track, and even then, keep in mind that this vehicle will give you a lot of headaches, and perform poorly at the track, especially during the summer months:

1. complete M3 suspension conversion (control arms, sway bars, rear subframe bushings)
2. KW coilover suspension, or at the very least, Koni yellow shocks
3. cross drilled rotors, and upgraded pads
4. Limited slip differential
5. After market oil cooler (Stett, or ER)
6. cobb AP or other flash tune
7. FMIC, catless Down pipes, Cat back exhaust (optional), Intake or upgraded filter, 02 sims for emissions
The OP didn't state anything about upgrading the car so it compares to the Porsche; "I wanted a daily driver that I could run laps in".

OP, you could take the car to the track stock and be OK, though I'd do these before your initial event:

-Brake fluid flush to high-temp fluid
-CDV delete (will improve shift accuracy)

Later on, consider upgrading the intercooler to something like the ETS 5" if you notice inconsistent throttle response, as the stock intercooler heat soaks quickly. It's not a big deal if you have a long straight on your track though; the stock intercooler recovers pretty fast. I had no problems with the stock intercooler on track even on 100*F days.

Something to think about now is tires. I've found it is more economical to have a separate wheel/tire set for track use, if you go more than a few times a year. You can fit four wheels in the back of the 335.
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One thing you'll learn is these 335i guys love going on and on about how inadequate the car is for the track.
I'm going to disagree again here. It's a capable car in the right hands and provides a rewarding driving experience. Telling the OP he needs 5 figures' worth of mods to have fun is ridiculous. I'm honestly quite surprised at the unjust bashing some of you are giving this car.

People, at least the ones at events I go to, attend HPDEs for the track experience, not the equipment. The equipment factors in but generally isn't an issue as long as it performs at a certain level - and it takes a very good driver to make a 335 inadequate.
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      02-18-2013, 08:53 AM   #16
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Ok, so Wheels/Tires. I want to try this thing out with some non run flat tires before I give up. What would you guys recommend? Sq setup with 255/35/18 on 18x8.5 wheels? From what I've read, I can run this setup without fear of rubbing? Anybody have a good value recommendation on tires?
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      02-18-2013, 11:45 AM   #17
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Ok, so Wheels/Tires. I want to try this thing out with some non run flat tires before I give up. What would you guys recommend? Sq setup with 255/35/18 on 18x8.5 wheels? From what I've read, I can run this setup without fear of rubbing? Anybody have a good value recommendation on tires?
255/35/18 square is possible, but you will need to dial in the camber up front, especially if you are using a tire without a rounded sidewall. Are you planning to use 4 OEM rear wheels? What are the offsets?

A lot of people that I know like to use the Hankook RS3. Great tire for the price.
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      04-02-2013, 09:00 AM   #18
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As far as my experience goes... Temps temps, temps... This Car runs very hot.. Before anything else, you need to be able to use what you have for more than 6-8 minutes.. Cooling improvements (fmic, oil cooler, etc), a couple cheap touches to the brakes ( better fluid, metallic brakelines and pads) and proper rubber should be high on your list.

Cheers
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      04-02-2013, 01:31 PM   #19
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TIt's a capable car in the right hands and provides a rewarding driving experience. Telling the OP he needs 5 figures' worth of mods to have fun is ridiculous. I'm honestly quite surprised at the unjust bashing some of you are giving this car.

People, at least the ones at events I go to, attend HPDEs for the track experience, not the equipment. The equipment factors in but generally isn't an issue as long as it performs at a certain level - and it takes a very good driver to make a 335 inadequate.
Sorry for the 2 months later quote, but I agree 100%. My comment was directed at the "335's suck, get an E36! It's the only way!" crowd.
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      04-02-2013, 06:29 PM   #20
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So OP, have you tracked your IS yet?
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      04-08-2013, 09:00 AM   #21
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So OP, have you tracked your IS yet?
Yes! I've been at the track now at least once a week since purchase. Frequent track access is nice!

Mods so far:
- Cobb AP running stage 1 aggressive map
- 18X8.5 Beyern Spartan Wheels with Michelin Super Sports 255/35/18.
- Burger DCI
- Burger Catch Can (not installed yet)
- Stainless Brake lines and ATE Blue Fluid
- Clutch Delay Value (remove)

Track impressions:
This is a fun car to drive on the street, no question. It's got plenty of power at the track, which also makes it fun. Everyone who rides with me is impressed with it's acceleration but that's no surprise to any of you. I've turned laps in-between every mod, so I have a pretty good feel for the results of each upgrade. I should also note that I run with DTC off. This allows me to rotate the car a little more easily without any full blown surprises.

First, the run flats stink. Changing to the Mich SS made a huge difference, and now I'm running square setup so I can more easily rotate and distribute wear. Also, the stainless lines and fluid are a must and are not too expensive. Brakes were mushy after only a few laps before. Now I can run 5+ lap sessions without worrying about the brakes too much. Brakes are honestly one of this cars biggest weaknesses on the track. However, I'm not inclined to make the upgrade on pads/rotors because of warranty and maintenance preservation.

Another huge weakness I haven't addressed yet is the suspension. This car bounces and rolls all over the place and grip/confidence/stability suffers as a result. I will likely make an upgrade to Coilovers, but not the $3500 options. I'm looking at BC racing and there is a local distributor in the Atlanta area that I'm talking to who knows a lot about setting these up. I will say that "learning" what to do with all this body roll has been a good learning experience. I have experienced understeer and oversteer and knowing when you can apply throttle to steer the car is something I'm still learning (and trusting).

The car has been a tough adjustment for me because I've been spoiled as a result of the business venture I'm involved with. However, those are "business" cars and it's not appropriate for me to take seat time away from clients in those cars. Anyone who has driven the 991 S will tell you that it's simply an amazing track car bone stock. Only a few secs off a 911 4.0 RS and less than half the price. However, it's still almost 3 times what I paid for my 335is and not as practical as a daily driver if you have kids. For what I'm looking to "get" out of this car, I think it's a decent option if you are willing to spend $3000-4000 in upgrades. If you aren't, I think you will just be chasing it all the way around the track.

I will update again after installing coilovers.
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      04-08-2013, 09:14 AM   #22
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First, the run flats stink. Changing to the Mich SS made a huge difference, and now I'm running square setup so I can more easily rotate and distribute wear. Also, the stainless lines and fluid are a must and are not too expensive. Brakes were mushy after only a few laps before. Now I can run 5+ lap sessions without worrying about the brakes too much. Brakes are honestly one of this cars biggest weaknesses on the track. However, I'm not inclined to make the upgrade on pads/rotors because of warranty and maintenance preservation.

Another huge weakness I haven't addressed yet is the suspension. This car bounces and rolls all over the place and grip/confidence/stability suffers as a result. I will likely make an upgrade to Coilovers, but not the $3500 options. I'm looking at BC racing and there is a local distributor in the Atlanta area that I'm talking to who knows a lot about setting these up. I will say that "learning" what to do with all this body roll has been a good learning experience. I have experienced understeer and oversteer and knowing when you can apply throttle to steer the car is something I'm still learning (and trusting).



I will update again after installing coilovers.
If you're worried about warranty, just swap track pads before/after each event. Stock BMW brakes were not meant to handle repeated heavy braking. I view the ability to avoid fade more of a safety issue than performance.

Sorry but I'll take oem sport suspension over BC any day. And you don't need to splurge $3500, there are many options that price in between BC and JRZ/Motons that are much more trackworthy than BC.
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