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      02-17-2013, 01:30 PM   #1
DunkinV
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My 335d: Injectors, Carbon, DDE

I promised in another thread to detail my 335d experience with carbon and injector failures. Here's the whole thing:

I bought my new 335d in June 2010. I have a 160-mile round trip daily commute, and wanted to balance power with fuel economy. Due to the high expected mileage I bought a third-party 100k extended warranty recommended by my dealer as part of the initial deal.

My first year and a half were great. The car broke in well and was very comfortable to drive in all weather conditions. My 50,000 mile warranty expired without event about a year and a quarter after purchase.

A few months after that, at 57,000 miles, the engine lost power and went into limp mode while accelerating onto a motorway. I was able to make it to the side of the road, and after an engine restart the SES light remained lit.

My dealer could see stored faults but not determine any repairs to make. About 4 months and 10,000 miles later I started getting a rough idle and since that time it's been in the shop an average of every 5,000 miles. I've had multiple injectors replaced, some more than once. Interspersed in the injector failures I've had the EGR & metering valve recall done and carbon cleaning. Injectors continued to fail and last November the Digital Diesel Electronics unit was replaced. No problems since, but it's only been a few thousand miles.

Notes on driving style: I tend to accelerate somewhat aggressively but 90% of my driving is on the interstate using cruise control, roughly around 2000 RPM so my average aggressiveness is probably 1.5 on the 1-5 scale. When cruising around the backroads near home I’ll get her up over 4000 but that only happens maybe 1-2 times every other month. Low RPMs and low load may be a contributing factor to the injector failures.

For fuel I started using a mix of Koch and BP Diesel. Once I started having injector issues I switched to Shell. I used no additives based on BMW's recommendations, though I started some last month based on what you all have shared here on e90post.

I'm honestly torn on what to do with my 335d. I love the car, but don't know if I can trust it. My warranty covered the vast majority of the $8000 in repairs last year. I'll be over 100,000 miles and out of my extended warranty in the next 7 weeks.

I will put my complete service history in the next post in case someone else sees their own pattern. I'm happy to explain anything further if it matches to what you guys are seeing or you want to compare experiences.
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      02-17-2013, 01:32 PM   #2
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Service history:

24 SEP 2010 – 11626 miles
* Engine oil service, oil filter, DEF

01 MAR 2011 – 25225 miles
* Standard service: Oil, oil filter, DEF
* Repl Microcabin Filter
* Repl wiper blades

06 JUN 2011 – 35399 miles
* I complained of Low DEF message coming on, dealer said normal usage
* Standard service: Oil, oil filter, DEF, washer
* Repl fuel filter
* Intake silencer service

06 SEP 2011 – 44686 miles
* I complained of Low DEF message coming on
* DEF low
* Repl Rear brake pad & sensor

09 DEC 2011 – 53836 miles
* Standard service: Oil, oil filter, DEF
* Brake fluid service
* Repl Microcabin filter

20 JAN 2012 – 57531 miles
* SES light: Rate Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) control deviation; could not find fault or reproduce condition. Possibly extreme cold temps caused valves to briefly deviate from normal values.
* Top off DEF

24 APR 2012 – 67102 miles
* SES: Smooth running faults on cylinders 2 and 4. Fault cyl 2 injector.
* Repl cyl 2 injector

01 MAY 2012 – 67677 miles
* SES: Smooth running fault on Cyl 4.
* Repl cyl 4 injector

24 JUL 2012 – 76665 miles
* SES: Fault 4D35 reducing agent metering valve and 4687 throttle actuator. Smooth running faults 4 2 5.
* Repl metering valve.
* Recall performed: SCR mixer and EGR valve and program with CAS

10 AUG 2012 – 77420 miles
* SES: Smooth running fault on 1 2 4 5. Zero quantity adaptation injector 5.
* Repl cyl 5 injector
* Standard service: Oil, oil filter, DEF
* Repl intake air filter
* Repl fuel filter

26 NOV 2012 – 87659 miles
* Standard service: Oil, oil filter, DEF
* SES: Zero quantity adaptation injectors 2 and 4.
* Repl cyl 2 and 4 injectors
* Inspect intake, carbon build up in valves. Removed intake manifold and valve cover to clean carbon build up
* Non-warranty Charges: $1,114.20

28 DEC 2012 – 88187 miles
* SES: Fault codes 4B06 and 459C
* Repl cyl 4 injector, inspected intake, test drove with rough idle
* BMW contacted, PUMA test plan and BMW NA test, SCR test failed
* Repl Digital Diesel Electronics (DDE)
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      02-17-2013, 05:25 PM   #3
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WHY can't these cars be reliable. It's like having a 20 year old BMW...in for repair too damn much. I got my first P20EE service engine light yesterday after driving to the local mountains. I had my wife and two children in the car and couldn't help but think 1. this F-er better not break down. 2. How much am I going to eat on trading this car in. I do like the car alot. Good luck.
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      02-17-2013, 06:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunkinvenn View Post
My warranty covered the vast majority of the $8000 in repairs last year. I'll be over 100,000 miles and out of my extended warranty in the next 7 weeks.
As far as I'm concerned, you have the answer in your own words. At least with this particular car, I think it would be wise to move on to greener pastures.
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      02-17-2013, 08:33 PM   #5
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As I'm sure you already know there may never have been an injector issue, it may have been the DDE all along. You will find out soon enough. Running at low RPMs is easier on the injectors than high so that has nothing to do with it. Remember these injectors can actually inject as many as 5 times per compression cycle.

As the carbon has just been cleaned out, and if no more major issues after replacing the DDE, myself, I would keep the car (have the trans fluid changed). YMMV.
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      02-17-2013, 09:20 PM   #6
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Crap. Your mileage looks like my mileage, and I see you didn't have many issues before 57k. I'll be at 50k by mid-march, and I've been trying to convince myself not to extend the warranty because it really only buys me a little over 1 year of risk aversion. Stuff like your story scares me, though.
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      02-17-2013, 10:16 PM   #7
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I have 41K miles on my 2010 335d. This weekend, the SES light is ON again. The OBD code is the same as before P02CE, injector for cylinder #2. The injector has been replaced twice. Am I due for a third injector replacement on cylinder #2 in less than 2 months? This is fustrating.

Note: The BMW fault code is #4AE6 #2 Fuel injector
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      02-17-2013, 10:19 PM   #8
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Hello all! I just bought a 2010 335d 3 weeks ago, and it's already on the shop for an injector #6 failure. At least it's a CPO with 3 years left on warranty. Dunkinvann, I live in Chicago. What dealer do you take yours to? I bought mine at Elmhurst BMW and it was serviced there since new. I would like to bring it to the BMW dealer that you do since that dealer is familiar with 335d carbon & injector problems. I absolutely love my car but I'm a little nervous after reading these threads
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      02-17-2013, 10:19 PM   #9
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So lets talk brass tax. What do you owe? What other make model are you interested in? Your in a position to not feel guilt or remorse about gettin rid of a fantastic car. Besides your warranty is almost up.
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      02-17-2013, 10:32 PM   #10
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I really want to sell my car too. With almost $18,000 dollars in repairs over the life of my car (Warranty) worries me. No other car excites me right now. Plus my wife would kill me if I started switching cars right before we have our kid.

After all the crap my 335D has given me there is no way I'd buy the new BMW diesel's coming to the states.
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      02-17-2013, 11:27 PM   #11
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      02-18-2013, 01:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunkinvenn View Post
...No problems since, but it's only been a few thousand miles...
Looks like they fixed all the known problems with this car, hopefully they were the necessary fix.

I personally do wish you keep your car (would love to hear about your future experiences), however I do agree no car is worth the mechanical + financial burden...especially a 335d.

Also keep in mind, there is no guarantee the next new car you get will be less problematic.

Get a tune and enjoy the next 100k!

Good luck with your decision.
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      02-18-2013, 05:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i_vs_ View Post
Looks like they fixed all the known problems with this car, hopefully they were the necessary fix.


Also keep in mind, there is no guarantee the next new car you get will be less problematic.

Get a tune and enjoy the next 100k!

Good luck with your decision.



good points
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      02-18-2013, 06:09 PM   #14
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I wonder if the DDE is the issue and not the injectors. BMW will sort it out.
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      02-18-2013, 10:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
I wonder if the DDE is the issue and not the injectors. BMW will sort it out.
Hard to tell; I had 2 more injectors replaced under warranty after BMW replaced the DDE.
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      02-19-2013, 11:30 PM   #16
DunkinV
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Wow, thanks for all the replies. Forgive me for responding in multiple posts, I'm limited on my iPad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselDiner View Post
As far as I'm concerned, you have the answer in your own words. At least with this particular car, I think it would be wise to move on to greener pastures.
So I've been exploring my options here. BMW is not interested to buy this car back. The problems started too late for Lemon Law protection so I have no cards in my hand, other than saying this will be my last BMW. They can't be bothered despite my youth and disposable income.

I found a nice Jetta at the dealer I bought this car from. They are low balling me on a trade. I'm not giving up yet.
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      02-19-2013, 11:33 PM   #17
DunkinV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsilver View Post
As I'm sure you already know there may never have been an injector issue, it may have been the DDE all along. You will find out soon enough. Running at low RPMs is easier on the injectors than high so that has nothing to do with it. Remember these injectors can actually inject as many as 5 times per compression cycle.

As the carbon has just been cleaned out, and if no more major issues after replacing the DDE, myself, I would keep the car (have the trans fluid changed). YMMV.
Yes, I thought of this. The question is if the DDE failed on its own or there are other conditions that caused the DDE to fail. As you note, time will tell. So far we have seen 2 cases of the DDE fixing it and 1 of continued issues.

Also worth noting, the dealer network does not know how to treat these repeated failures. My case was ultimately taken to BMW engineering. That tells me root cause is possibly not yet identified, and the DDE may be a diagnostic repair. Or else this is rare enough, or not priority enough, for BMW to package up a service bulletin for the dealer network. Everyone with a 335d who sees a single injector failure should ask your SA to immediately inquire of BMW NA experts on possible DDE failure. We may even be able to help them sort this out faster.

Last edited by DunkinV; 02-20-2013 at 12:04 AM. Reason: Autoincorrect
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      02-19-2013, 11:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i_vs_ View Post
Looks like they fixed all the known problems with this car, hopefully they were the necessary fix.

I personally do wish you keep your car (would love to hear about your future experiences), however I do agree no car is worth the mechanical + financial burden...especially a 335d.

Also keep in mind, there is no guarantee the next new car you get will be less problematic.

Get a tune and enjoy the next 100k!

Good luck with your decision.
Yeah I have to trust they fixed it, or I'll have no confidence to keep it or feel like a jerk trading it in. BMW declined to buy it back so I guess it's either fixed or a solid example of the BMW brand.

I haven't ruled out a tune and another 100k... Will likely depend on residual trade value.
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      02-19-2013, 11:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corbin View Post
So lets talk brass tax. What do you owe? What other make model are you interested in? Your in a position to not feel guilt or remorse about gettin rid of a fantastic car. Besides your warranty is almost up.
I owe enough that I'll have to trade down to a beater unless I want to roll a car payment over. But to not go too low I found a couple Jetta 5-speeds I could live with, pay off the loan and put no cash down if the trade was where Edmunds predicted. Dealer offered me 10k less than that.

So I ran some analytics on residual value of the 335d. It's interesting and I'll start a new thread on it, but it basically confirmed Edmunds. Now getting that will be the hard part: at over 90k miles most dealers want to send it to auction.
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      02-19-2013, 11:59 PM   #20
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Oh, and thanks to the freezey-thawey weather here I hit a pothole and blew a snow tire... that they don't make any more. So now I'm trying to figure this out before it snows again!
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      02-20-2013, 12:02 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael335d View Post
Hello all! I just bought a 2010 335d 3 weeks ago, and it's already on the shop for an injector #6 failure. At least it's a CPO with 3 years left on warranty. Dunkinvann, I live in Chicago. What dealer do you take yours to? I bought mine at Elmhurst BMW and it was serviced there since new. I would like to bring it to the BMW dealer that you do since that dealer is familiar with 335d carbon & injector problems. I absolutely love my car but I'm a little nervous after reading these threads
I was going to pm you but see you're not at the post limit yet. I've been going to Knauz, ask for Jeremy. He'll take good care of you!
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      02-20-2013, 01:47 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunkinvenn View Post
Oh, and thanks to the freezey-thawey weather here I hit a pothole and blew a snow tire... that they don't make any more. So now I'm trying to figure this out before it snows again!
That sucks, now on an "x" model apparently you pretty much have to use the same tire all around, but on our RWD models you would definately have to use the same tire on each side in the back, and probably in the front (normally where you blow a tire). Hope your rim isnt dented or cracked.
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