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      02-20-2013, 11:28 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d
Greek amigo mio what Doc is trying to imply if he can correct me on this is that I beleive that most in the forums are not seeing the scope of the actual build and time that was spent on a product that WAS NOT available for our "D"s whatsover and to infer imply or try to denigrate a company because it does no a a BENCHFLOw or any data avaibale for whatever reasons is to disrespect the company for doing something most of us wanted and DID NOT have. come'on amigo lets be reasonable on this i got the product and trust me the car runs way smoother than before if you beleive me take a trip to my Island and i will let you drive my car and then you can attest for the product. i do understand your plught as well as other but if any person has doubt buy the product and do the data on it. it was recorded at another site that the temp dofferance beteween OEM IC and WAGNER IC was more tham 23 degrees in coolness, if that is not good reason to trust this product w/o benchflow or DATA then I dont know what else to tell you but trust me. gracias
Colder does not by itself mean better.
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      02-20-2013, 11:42 AM   #156
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People asking for data is hardly bashing a reputable company that's advertising a product for sale.

I do see your point about users asking for flow rates, restrictions and so forth, seeming "ungrateful"

Lastly, since you feel neglected, thank you very much for installing and testing the product.
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      02-20-2013, 12:31 PM   #157
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taibanl in some cases true but what I meant was cooler air NOT colder. Which is much the same but in regards to engine mods and where its coming from, anyone can say cooler or colder LOL. For me here in the island 70 degrees F is colder than what it can be construed by you in NY as cooler, u get my drift
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      02-20-2013, 12:34 PM   #158
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Corbin you're absolutly right but instead of bashing out on forums go to the source in this case WAGNER and ALL of you who feel that they have struck out flood CARSTEN WAGNER thru emails as DOC DD myself and others did to have them construct the IC, I guess that would be fair game.
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      02-20-2013, 01:16 PM   #159
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Nobody is saying that Wagner has struck out.
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      02-20-2013, 01:38 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dwagon View Post
Let me ask you all a question about other cars on the road with high quantities of aftermarket parts. For example a Toyota Supra "I have one"! I have never once bought an intercooler based on flow rate etc. I have bought intercoolers before without ever even thinking twice about flow characteristics. For some reason that is all of the negative people in this threads main concern. These cars are not a High Performance from the factory, like a Porsche 911 for example. What is the big deal with bashing Wagner most importantly and not thanking people that actually made this happen?
Since I feel like your post/questions were directed at me I will respond...

First, nobody bashed Wagner, you or anyone else in this thread, in fact I recall that some of us actually expressed appreciation for your efforts, but similarly we expressed disappointment in the fact that Wagner was so quick to go to market with a product they failed to prove its efficacy.

Secondly, irrespective of the fact that you have purchased IC's for your cars based on blind faith, many consumers like to see concrete data to support the fact that what they are buying will actually yield some benefit or to the contrary not have unintended consequences; hence why we are making an issue of the data points or lack thereof - isn't that the entire reason to buy/install a larger IC? A perfect example of this is, the mini owner who reported/documented losing power after installing a Wagner IC.

Let me ask you a question,,, why should anyone spend their hard earned money buying a product without any evidence (other than a butt dyno and some IAT readings) that there is an appreciable benefit?

Like I said before, I REALLY hope this IC works and that someone, whether that be Wagner or someone else, can provide concrete data points such as pressure drop, dyno results etc, because I will gladly pony up the $'s to buy one.
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      02-20-2013, 01:46 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cssnms View Post
Since I feel like your post/questions were directed at me I will respond...

First, nobody bashed Wagner, you or anyone else in this thread, in fact I recall that some of us actually expressed appreciation for your efforts, but similarly we expressed disappointment in the fact that Wagner was so quick to go to market with a product they failed to prove its efficacy.

Secondly, irrespective of the fact that you have purchased IC's for your cars based on blind faith, many consumers like to see concrete data to support the fact that what they are buying will actually yield some benefit or to the contrary not have unintended consequences; hence why we are making an issue of the data points or lack thereof - isn't that the entire reason to buy/install a larger IC? A perfect example of this is, the mini owner who reported/documented losing power after installing a Wagner IC.

Let me ask you a question,,, why should anyone spend their hard earned money buying a product without any evidence (other than a butt dyno and some IAT readings) that there is an appreciable benefit?

Like I said before, I REALLY hope this IC works and that someone, whether that be Wagner or someone else, can provide concrete data points such as pressure drop, dyno results etc, because I will gladly pony up the $'s to buy one.
I do not think I could have said it any better
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      02-20-2013, 02:06 PM   #162
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Amigo I say that WAGNER has struck out cuase it should of provided the info needed but I am here to save the day i plan to do dyno either tomorrow or friday so that way we can ALL rest assure it works as far a pressure drop out I cannot attest for the MINi albeit a turbocharged engine vice a supercharged i had, great insight Chris I gather DOC felt a little bad that people were not fully aware of WAGNER being the ONLY 335d IC for the USA but I personally Thank DOC DD and you Chris for all the Knwoledge I have ATTAINED mostly in this Post and boost on DIESL's
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      02-20-2013, 02:46 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d View Post
Amigo I say that WAGNER has struck out cuase it should of provided the info needed but I am here to save the day i plan to do dyno either tomorrow or friday so that way we can ALL rest assure it works as far a pressure drop out I cannot attest for the MINi albeit a turbocharged engine vice a supercharged i had, great insight Chris I gather DOC felt a little bad that people were not fully aware of WAGNER being the ONLY 335d IC for the USA but I personally Thank DOC DD and you Chris for all the Knwoledge I have ATTAINED mostly in this Post and boost on DIESL's
What were your most recent dyno results before the Wagner IC?
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      02-21-2013, 08:50 AM   #164
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we posted 307 whp with the upgraded version Flash from RENNtech before this we had clocked 300 whp
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      02-26-2013, 08:43 AM   #165
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Hey friends!

Any more news about stats or dyno performance increase??

Thanks
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      02-26-2013, 08:52 AM   #166
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new dyno 311.29 at 90 degrees fahrenheit
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      02-26-2013, 07:55 PM   #167
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So the question remains, is it a valid upgrade or is it just slightly better than the OEM intercooler?

I know its the only cooler for 335d thats bespoke and designed specificaly but....

There are two types or users that do this upgrade. The ones that just want more power and the ones that want the same power but wiht more reliability because the temperatures are lower.

The users that have them instaled please tell us, is it a MUST buy or just buy it if you must.

Again thanks for the atention and explanations but here is very few information and tecnical specs for this interccoler.

Paulo
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      02-26-2013, 08:21 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d
new dyno 311.29 at 90 degrees fahrenheit
Any 3rd pull data, like pre-ic? Not hasassing, just curious.
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      02-26-2013, 08:23 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tekaefixe
So the question remains, is it a valid upgrade or is it just slightly better than the OEM intercooler?

I know its the only cooler for 335d thats bespoke and designed specificaly but....

There are two types or users that do this upgrade. The ones that just want more power and the ones that want the same power but wiht more reliability because the temperatures are lower.

The users that have them instaled please tell us, is it a MUST buy or just buy it if you must.

Again thanks for the atention and explanations but here is very few information and tecnical specs for this interccoler.

Paulo
In terms of power GAIN, the inprovement appears to be measurable but negligible, from an endurance/heat soak stand point we dont have data but i would bet it is more significant.

The open question is the mpg efficiency gain real, if so this thing could pay for itself!
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      02-26-2013, 08:27 PM   #170
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I must be living in an alternate reality!

Just because a product is the only one on the market, doesn't automatically make it worth buying!

I personally would only purchase an intercooler that has sound proven data to back up it's performance or one that has a proven core such as Garrett (which is the best on the market) or Bell etc.

One thing I never rely on is reports from others that have bought and fitted products, as they are almost always positively biased.
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      02-26-2013, 09:03 PM   #171
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I must be living in an alternate reality!

Just because a product is the only one on the market, doesn't automatically make it worth buying!

I personally would only purchase an intercooler that has sound proven data to back up it's performance or one that has a proven core such as Garrett (which is the best on the market) or Bell etc.

One thing I never rely on is reports from others that have bought and fitted products, as they are almost always positively biased.
Almost all of us are with you.
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      02-27-2013, 06:00 AM   #172
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Tai we did not do any 3rd pull as we assumed we would loose power as we did with OEM, but at Techevo I understand your remarks but I for one have done the test and I tend to be very honest when I write in these forums so people of your kind can understand that ONLY the few like me and others have made jumps noone hasn't, I remember when I did the RENNtech flash and people oohh ahh ahah me but one year later NO problems engine wise or tranny and trust me i beat my car like two cent whore. Carsten WAGNER has notified me and Greek that he has all the data and explained to us the reasons it was delayed. Like I tell everyone if you want to know something get it from the horse's mouth in this case go to WAGNER and email him as some of us have done. I can only attest to my persona i have done dyno runs and tested the products I HAVE on my car and I can truly say it works if ANYONE has any doubts you can fly down her to Puerto Rico and I will gladly let you drive my car ONCE! LOL And believe me I for one would put any PRODUCT out in the street just ask the people from EXECUHITCH in other forums
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      02-27-2013, 06:06 AM   #173
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I forgot PAULO I cannot tell you what to buy it is not ethical in my part I can strongly suggest you look into it and then YOU can buy it. I took a gamble and has paid off pretty well.

Tai as far mpg gain it all depends on the driver if its me then Im fucked Ive been beating this stepchild since I put on the AGNER IC, I can attest that YES there can be some MPG increase but damn it I have a CONCRETE FOOT and cant seem to stop racing but, definetly you can increase a person who can attes to this is TurboEd from german boost he is getting 45-47 mpg at 70-80 mpg in Florida and he is NO SLOUCH when it comes to cars he is openeing his own aftermarket manufacturering company and he is very honest and trustworthy we talk all the time.
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      02-27-2013, 05:30 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d
I forgot PAULO I cannot tell you what to buy it is not ethical in my part I can strongly suggest you look into it and then YOU can buy it. I took a gamble and has paid off pretty well.

Tai as far mpg gain it all depends on the driver if its me then Im fucked Ive been beating this stepchild since I put on the AGNER IC, I can attest that YES there can be some MPG increase but damn it I have a CONCRETE FOOT and cant seem to stop racing but, definetly you can increase a person who can attes to this is TurboEd from german boost he is getting 45-47 mpg at 70-80 mpg in Florida and he is NO SLOUCH when it comes to cars he is openeing his own aftermarket manufacturering company and he is very honest and trustworthy we talk all the time.
TE is running renntech?
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      02-27-2013, 06:31 PM   #175
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No TE is not running Renntech. He ha s done something himself this guy is something else and is a very cool guy
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      03-02-2013, 08:14 PM   #176
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I actually thought the OEM intercooler was pretty good, even in a highly modified 335d. Here's some data that shows comparisons of BT recorded data of the IAT (post intercooler) for pulls done with the OEM intercooler and with an initial setup of water injection, and then the final setup with water injection.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=59

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=62

The OEM setup on a pull on the road (not a dyno, which will have much less air passing over the air to air intercooler than in real world applications) doesn't leave a lot on the table for a highly modified car. And the water injection was able to bring the IAT's below ambient for a time (something no intercooler can do).

Regarding the dyno data provided, since it's on different days, with different fuel, with different DPF loading conditions, is the few hp differences statistically significant? For example, here's a test of the same car, same day, same fuel on several dyno's ... all different results.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/03...ine_dyno_dash/

Regarding the mpg impacts ... my car at 70 mph on level ground isn't using any boost. The flow rate of air moving through the intercooler is pretty low in this state, and the IAT's are basically ambient levels, so I'm not sure what laws of physics could possibly be involved to explain the radical increase in thermodynamic efficiency being described.

Not trying to ruffel any feathers, just trying to give some insight and quantifiable data that was collected in the past.

Peace fellow diesel lovers :-)
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