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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > My 335d: Injectors, Carbon, DDE



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      02-20-2013, 09:24 AM   #23
Thud
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Originally Posted by Dunkinvenn View Post
I found a nice Jetta
Hah.... and you think BMW's are unreliable....


The prevailing theory I've been reading in other threads is that if you have the EGR recall service done while the car still has low mileage, then you're much less likely to experience carbon buildup-related problems later on.
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      02-20-2013, 09:43 AM   #24
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Sold my '86 Jetta diesel before moving overseas after 20 years and 300k miles. Did most work myself including overkill on Mobil 1 changes every 3500 miles. Granted it was not a TDI.
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      02-20-2013, 10:11 AM   #25
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I am still back and forth on mine. Its a 2011, all recalls done under 20k miles. My lease is up this year, and I would like to buy it out. But I am seeing a few stories about carbon build up that worry me. As well have had it in three times for SES and EGR issues.

My wife cant take me buying yet another car (on the third since we met four years ago) and I actually really enjoy this one.
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      02-20-2013, 10:14 AM   #26
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My thoughts.....keep the 335d and keep racking up miles. You'll take a bath if you trade it in. Besides....a Jetta may be nice...but it is not even the same ballpark as BMW nice. Why take a bath for a step down?

Worst case....if the 335d starts acting up down the road, then your hand is forced to trade it in and take a bath. But for now, with a good running car...I say keep it and keep racking up miles on it.
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      02-20-2013, 10:22 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M
My thoughts.....keep the 335d and keep racking up miles. You'll take a bath if you trade it in. Besides....a Jetta may be nice...but it is not even the same ballpark as BMW nice. Why take a bath for a step down?

Worst case....if the 335d starts acting up down the road, then your hand is forced to trade it in and take a bath. But for now, with a good running car...I say keep it and keep racking up miles on it.
Amen. My sentiments exactly. I am even going out on a limb and investing some of my nest egg on expensive mods. I have owned some semi-nice cars in the past but this 335d is the most interesting combination of fun. But hey, I am retired and may not have the same life concerns as others who are troubled by some of the forum posts.
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      02-20-2013, 05:05 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thud View Post
The prevailing theory I've been reading in other threads is that if you have the EGR recall service done while the car still has low mileage, then you're much less likely to experience carbon buildup-related problems later on.
Good thought. I want to follow it for a minute based on my evidence because I'm not sure it supports a linked relationship between carbon, injector failures and DDE failure.

My EGR recall was done after injector failures started, and injector failures continued. Same with my carbon cleaning. The evidence would support carbon build-up happening largely before the EGR recall, and could support carbon build-up being reduced by the EGR recall; but my injector failures seem to be an unrelated issue based on their persistence throughout.

BMW's theory is that my DDE failed, causing it to mis-fire the injectors, which caused rough idle and the DDE mis-diagnosing injector failures. Is it possible that something about the original EGR valve design could cause the DDE to fail? I'm sure you guys understand common rail diesels better than I do, but understanding electronics this would surprise me.

The one thing that I can definitely say about my EGR/SCR recall is that DEF use went down. I was filling the DEF tank every 4,000-6,000 miles before the recall. After recall, I make it to expected service intervals.

I really don't know how prevalent injector failures are but it sounds like a number of us are having them. Failures could be related to the low-lubricating nature of the US ULSD fuel; or in fact related to failure-prone DDEs; or in fact related to something else that is causing injector or DDE failures. Either way, the evidence suggests there is more than the EGR issue at play here.
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      02-20-2013, 06:02 PM   #29
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I am due tomorrow to take my car to the dealer. This is my 3th injector failure on the same cylinder.

I now think it could be carbon or it could be a software issue with the DDE mixture adaptation after the last update. Twice, the SES did turn ON after a long trip on the highway (~200 miles, 37 mpg) and with some idle hesitations. Three to four days later, driving in the city (25 mpg) with spirited driving, the SES light did turn itself OFF and the idle hesitations are gone.

Either, the spirited driving clear up the carbon in the intake or the mixture adaptation after driving in the city clear the problem.
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      02-20-2013, 06:16 PM   #30
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I am due tomorrow to take my car to the dealer. This is my 3th injector failure on the same cylinder.

I now think it could be carbon or it could be a software issue with the DDE mixture adaptation after the last update. Twice, the SES did turn ON after a long trip on the highway (~200 miles, 37 mpg) and with some idle hesitations. Three to four days later, driving in the city (25 mpg) with spirited driving, the SES light did turn itself OFF and the idle hesitations are gone.

Either, the spirited driving clear up the carbon in the intake or the mixture adaptation after driving in the city clear the problem.
Your symptoms sound like mine. I would routinely see rough idle come and go, and SES was usually persistent but once or twice disappeared before I got it to the dealer.

My post just above got long so the TL;DR is that my experience suggests the carbon issue and injector issues are not necessarily related.

You might suggest to your SA that you've heard on e90post of cases where repeated injector failures were ultimately diagnosed as a DDE failure, and ask they open a PUMA case with BMW for advice. It took me a year to get the DDE fix.
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      02-20-2013, 06:26 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunkinvenn View Post
Your symptoms sound like mine. I would routinely see rough idle come and go, and SES was usually persistent but once or twice disappeared before I got it to the dealer.

My post just above got long so the TL;DR is that my experience suggests the carbon issue and injector issues are not necessarily related.

You might suggest to your SA that you've heard on e90post of cases where repeated injector failures were ultimately diagnosed as a DDE failure, and ask they open a PUMA case with BMW for advice. It took me a year to get the DDE fix.
In fact, the SA told me that they are planning to open a PUMA case and I should be patient (the car could be at the dealer for many days). At least, I will get alternate transportation for the duration of the service.
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      02-20-2013, 06:33 PM   #32
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In fact, the SA told me that they are planning to open a PUMA case and I should be patient (the car could be at the dealer for many days). At least, I will get alternate transportation for the duration of the service.
Amen to that! I drove a brand new 5 series from Thanksgiving to New Years!

Please share with us what happens next.
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      02-20-2013, 06:44 PM   #33
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Thanks for the reply, I'll try and get to the post limit so I can pm, whatever that is.... This forum is great so far.
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      02-20-2013, 06:44 PM   #34
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      02-20-2013, 06:48 PM   #35
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As I mentioned in another thread, my car is still at the dealership. They are replacing the complete engine harness. I'd be damned if this is the source for all the injector, DDE, electronic failures...They should be done with the repair end of this week, lets see how it goes.

This diagnosis came from the Regional BMW Engineer. It is a very laborious job from what I understand. I would think to authorize such an expensive repair requires some "proper diagnosis".

From what I know, I would be the first 335d (reported on forums) to have the engine harness repair.

Regarding the carbon build up/soot build up, the new EGR valve + cooler should help; I would still consider a tune. Remember, Tune = More fuel = Less EGR = Less soot, less carbon; (the M57 has a lot of potential, but of course to meet clean diesel standards, BMW had to turn down the power to meet emissions standards).

Meanwhile, I am enjoying the 2013 328xi. Great car, but would never consider it over the 335d. Now that I have tasted the 335d, I am unable to size up any other car that is comparable.
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      02-20-2013, 08:38 PM   #36
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That's the same loaner I got. Even though that engine is wonderful, I was longing for my power, and economy.
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      02-20-2013, 10:52 PM   #37
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2011 335d with 29k and similar issues

I recently had my SES light on over the course of two weeks with the zero quantity adaption code for cylinders 2 and 5 (code for cylinder 2 was 4AE6). Car had rough idle, and noticeable shake when revving engine in neutral.

Vehicle is a 2011 335d with 29,500 miles. I have used premium diesel (Shell 45 or higher cetane rating) for most of its life. Aside from the unavoidable stop and go traffic in the DC area, I do try and drive the car hard. No mods.

Took to dealer and was told there was a software error. Excerpt from warranty repair:

SIB 13 04 12 Programming
Cause: SI B13 04 12
0060995 SIB 130412
28854 SI B13 04 12 Applies at this time (W) - Defect - 00 13 13 02
00 Program / Encode Complete Vehicle W/CAS - 00 60 995 (9FRU)

Received vehicle back a few weeks ago, and have noticed the rough idle is somewhat better, but still there. Had a friend scan the car again (no SES light on) and found code 4593. I searched the net for this code, and have not found anything.

As the car is still in warranty, I was waiting for the SES light to come back on before pressing the dealer.

Does anyone know what code 4593 relates to?

Ian
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      02-20-2013, 10:59 PM   #38
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Closest code I could find is:

4590 - Rail Pressure not Plausible
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      02-21-2013, 11:37 AM   #39
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My latest SES was for the MAF throwing plausibility faults as part of the EGR process. This is two weeks after having the EGR cooler replaced. And six months after having them replace a metering valve.

Maybe my car is destined to run better now with the updated cooler, software, MAF.
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      02-21-2013, 01:14 PM   #40
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Does anyone know what code 4593 relates to?
Welcome to the spiral. I had 4592 ,4593, 459B faults in cylinders 4, 2 and 5. That visit they replaced my metering valve. Later they replaced all 3 injectors and cleaned out carbon. Ultimately they replaced the DDE.

My guess is it's a smooth running fault or injector failure in that cylinder.
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      02-23-2013, 12:00 PM   #41
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Why is it so hard to find out what our codes mean? I mean dealers and their mechanics all accross the world must be able to find them, are they under penalty of death if a leaked code list for 335ds comes out on the internet and is traced back to them?
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      02-23-2013, 03:44 PM   #42
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Why is it so hard to find out what our codes mean? I mean dealers and their mechanics all accross the world must be able to find them, are they under penalty of death if a leaked code list for 335ds comes out on the internet and is traced back to them?
OEMs scream "proprietary info" and force Indy's to buy the 10k computer or quit. Perhaps the Owns see this as a way to lessen the difference in shop rates between the dealers and Indy's.
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      02-23-2013, 03:51 PM   #43
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go to BMWtis.com pay $30 for access for the day and search the codes.
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      02-23-2013, 05:26 PM   #44
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I really want to sell my car too. With almost $18,000 dollars in repairs over the life of my car (Warranty) worries me. No other car excites me right now. Plus my wife would kill me if I started switching cars right before we have our kid.

After all the crap my 335D has given me there is no way I'd buy the new BMW diesel's coming to the states.

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