E90Post
 


Bimmer Retrofit
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > Just amp change from hi-fi to ms-8 a good upgrade?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-15-2013, 12:23 AM   #1
bluewind
Enlisted Member
 
bluewind's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335is, F10 535i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: California, USA

Posts: 31
iTrader: (0)

Just amp change from hi-fi to ms-8 a good upgrade?

Okay - just did it. Switching the hi-fi amp to MS-8 makes amazing improvement. Cannot imagine how good it will get once I do the center speaker later.

Since there was no clear instruction on how to use Technic harness to do the job, I just tried to figure it out on my own.

Can someone please check if the wiring is done correctly? Especially the power/ground cables - and the REM IN piece, too.

Had a difficult time configuring the amp - but now after a few calibration, I love how it sounds.

Last edited by bluewind; 02-16-2013 at 03:48 AM.
bluewind is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-16-2013, 03:45 AM   #2
bluewind
Enlisted Member
 
bluewind's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335is, F10 535i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: California, USA

Posts: 31
iTrader: (0)

Wiring pictures included... Please see if I did it correctly. Thanks!
Attached Images
  
bluewind is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-16-2013, 06:33 AM   #3
Technic
Lieutenant General
 
Technic's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3, 2014 528i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

Posts: 10,849
iTrader: (16)

Garage List
2004 M3  [0.00]
Take a look at your PM... the power/ground/remote are correct.

Note... unplug mic once you finish with the install and setup.
__________________
-2015 F30 320i, Imperial/Oyster, 8AT: August 2014 ED
-2012 E92 M3 Jerez Black/Rust Brown, M-DCT: September 2011 ED
-2008 E90 M3 Melbourne Red/Bamboo, 6MT: Gone
-2007 MK5 GTI United Grey/Grey, DSG: Gone
-2004 E46 M3 Carbon Black/Cinnamon, 6MT: Gone
Technic is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-16-2013, 12:59 PM   #4
kaigoss69
Colonel
 
kaigoss69's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 335i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: JAX

Posts: 2,915
iTrader: (5)

Yes, in god's name, unplug that mic cable, now!
__________________
Mobridge DA2 > JBL MS-8 > JL Audio HD600/4 > (3) Hybrid Audio L3SE & (2) Rainbow Cal25; JL Audio HD900/5 > (2) Morel HCW-10 & (1) IDMax 15
kaigoss69 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-16-2013, 01:14 PM   #5
WilliamS
GoofBall
 
Drives: 2008 E92 N54 Xdrive
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Tampa, FL

Posts: 709
iTrader: (1)

does this remove all the filtering from the stock amp as well remove that amp 100%. At this point do you have actual control of the frequencies or is there still an internal setup that cant be over ridden?
__________________
WilliamS is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-16-2013, 04:54 PM   #6
Technic
Lieutenant General
 
Technic's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3, 2014 528i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

Posts: 10,849
iTrader: (16)

Garage List
2004 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofyguy View Post
does this remove all the filtering from the stock amp as well remove that amp 100%. At this point do you have actual control of the frequencies or is there still an internal setup that cant be over ridden?
Direct/100% replacement of the HiFi OEM amp (not Logic7, not Harman Kardon, not Individual Audio) with JBL MS-8: http://www.jbl.com/images/media/MS_8_OM_EN.pdf
__________________
-2015 F30 320i, Imperial/Oyster, 8AT: August 2014 ED
-2012 E92 M3 Jerez Black/Rust Brown, M-DCT: September 2011 ED
-2008 E90 M3 Melbourne Red/Bamboo, 6MT: Gone
-2007 MK5 GTI United Grey/Grey, DSG: Gone
-2004 E46 M3 Carbon Black/Cinnamon, 6MT: Gone
Technic is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2013, 03:03 AM   #7
KN| BMW
First Lieutenant
 
KN| BMW's Avatar
 
Drives: E90LCI to GTRS5 WideBody M3
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vietnam - HCM

Posts: 374
iTrader: (0)

Can be used for base system? If so, where is the good store to buy? Im seeing on ebay that each vendor sells for different price from 499 , 699 and 899?

I have just replaced my front speakers to Logic7 but still not happy with it..Maybe a better amp will help ?


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40

Thanks!
__________________
KN| BMW is offline   Vietnam
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2013, 03:52 AM   #8
bluewind
Enlisted Member
 
bluewind's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335is, F10 535i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: California, USA

Posts: 31
iTrader: (0)

Thanks much Technic! I am very happy with just ms-8 alone for now and cannot wait until I install the center speaker...

But had I not already bought the center speaker and other pieces, I would have just stopped here. The current setup isn't perfect but ms-8 alone makes so much better sound than stock.

Technic harness made things stupidly easy... Other posts actually confused me much more. For this swap, only thing you need is a screw driver and literally 10 minutes - it took me much longer but it was because I was reading too much and trying to figure things out ;-)

No running wires required. Also I just put the monitor in the trunk and pull it forward thru the rear seat only when I need to make adjustments so didn't need to run any cable at all.

Will pull the mic out! But does it matter? I just thought that mic would be used or turned on only during calibration. Just curious.
bluewind is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2013, 03:55 AM   #9
bluewind
Enlisted Member
 
bluewind's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335is, F10 535i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: California, USA

Posts: 31
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KN| BMW
Can be used for base system? If so, where is the good store to buy? Im seeing on ebay that each vendor sells for different price from 499 , 699 and 899?

I have just replaced my front speakers to Logic7 but still not happy with it..Maybe a better amp will help ?


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40

Thanks!
I bought the factory refurbished one sold by JBL on eBay and it looked like brand new.
bluewind is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2013, 05:21 PM   #10
Technic
Lieutenant General
 
Technic's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3, 2014 528i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

Posts: 10,849
iTrader: (16)

Garage List
2004 M3  [0.00]
The HiFi to MS-8 PnP harness is configured as follows:

- the harness kit includes the main OEM amp to MS-8 output harness, a 3-wire sub harness/pigtail, an optional 12ft 18AWG center speaker cable terminated with OEM terminals at one end, and a set of RCA (Red = right channel) cables. PDC mod (to keep PDC functional with MS-8) is also optional.

- the main harness plugs into the OEM amp connector

- the 3-wire sub harness has a red (12V), black (ground) and blue (remote turn on IN) wires. Connect those to the MS-8 12V, ground and remote IN respectively.

- the optional center speaker cable terminals plug into the OEM amp connector slots 39 (positive) and 40 (negative).



The slots numbers are molded in the OEM amp connector; wires are inserted in the black subconnector inside the OEM amp connector.

- run the center channel cable to the top of the dash and to your center speaker.

- the main harness has 2 RCA receptacles. The red RCA is right channel, the white RCA is left channel. Use the included RCA 3ft cable to connect the main harness RCA with the MS-8 CH1 (Left) and CH2 (Right) input channels.

The PDC option has two red RCA joined into one receptacle, two white RCA are joined into one receptacle. Follow the same connections above to the MS-8 CH1 and CH2.

- plug 3-wire sub connector to main harness

That connects the MS-8 to all your OEM speakers, 12V, ground and remote in.

The MS-8 speaker output configuration is:

- CH1 = Left front
- CH2 = Right front
- CH3 = Left rear
- CH4 = Right rear
- CH5 = Center
- CH6 = Left woofer
- CH7 = Right woofer
- CH8 = Not used unless a separate subwoofer is used (not supported by this harness)

Suggested setup:

- skip input setup
- Sub = 2, subsonic at 50Hz at 18dB slope, low pass at 200Hz at 12dB slope
- Front = 1-way
- Center = 1-way, 160Hz at 18dB
- Sides = 1-way, 160Hz at 18dB

Calibration volume = -25dB

Main volume after calibration = -6dB

Adjust to taste.

Please revise the MS-8 install instructions for a more detailed information about how to configure the MS-8. Only the wiring is taken care of by the harness and not the actual MS-8 setup.
__________________
-2015 F30 320i, Imperial/Oyster, 8AT: August 2014 ED
-2012 E92 M3 Jerez Black/Rust Brown, M-DCT: September 2011 ED
-2008 E90 M3 Melbourne Red/Bamboo, 6MT: Gone
-2007 MK5 GTI United Grey/Grey, DSG: Gone
-2004 E46 M3 Carbon Black/Cinnamon, 6MT: Gone

Last edited by Technic; 03-13-2013 at 09:36 AM.
Technic is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2013, 06:01 PM   #11
sngencarelli
Private
 
Drives: 2007 E93
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Lower Saucon, PA

Posts: 86
iTrader: (0)

This has me intrigued. I have my original hi-if amp, but I'm also powering my stock under seat subs with a JBL amp. That has made a big difference, now I'm wondering if there is any benefit to putting everything back to stock and then replacing the original hi-if amp with the ms-8, letting it power all of the stock speakers. I could also add the center channel at some point. I've got an E93, btw.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Scott
sngencarelli is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2013, 06:46 PM   #12
ctuna
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca

Posts: 4,035
iTrader: (0)

Technic have you tried running the fronts active?

Technic have you tried running the fronts(front doors) active?
Since you have a lot of channels it looks like you could do this in a Hi Fi.
ctuna is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-17-2013, 07:04 PM   #13
Technic
Lieutenant General
 
Technic's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3, 2014 528i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

Posts: 10,849
iTrader: (16)

Garage List
2004 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
Technic have you tried running the fronts(front doors) active?
Since you have a lot of channels it looks like you could do this in a Hi Fi.
The only way of doing that is to not install a center speaker and then run new wires to the front doors.

Which then defeats the purpose of the PnP harness. D
__________________
-2015 F30 320i, Imperial/Oyster, 8AT: August 2014 ED
-2012 E92 M3 Jerez Black/Rust Brown, M-DCT: September 2011 ED
-2008 E90 M3 Melbourne Red/Bamboo, 6MT: Gone
-2007 MK5 GTI United Grey/Grey, DSG: Gone
-2004 E46 M3 Carbon Black/Cinnamon, 6MT: Gone
Technic is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-28-2013, 03:55 AM   #14
bluewind
Enlisted Member
 
bluewind's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335is, F10 535i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: California, USA

Posts: 31
iTrader: (0)

Finally got to install the center speaker! Took me 2 hours but I think it was worth it. I am planning to put a mini DIY for super newbies like me because there are so many good threads on this topic but it was super difficult to put things together without prior experience or knowledge.

My quick impression:

Just with MS8 and stock hifi speakers, they sound better than HK premium sound option for most music but vocal is weaker and talk radio sounds pretty bad. Overall much better than stock hifi but not as all around player as HK.

MS8 + center speaker (DLS 424) sounds absolutely better than HK. Bass isn't so bad, either in my opinion. Vocal gets much better and now talk radio is also very clear and enjoyable. I think I need to fine tune the calibration but I can definitely say that the current setup sounds better than my 2 previous E90s with HK.

I am going to compare with my wife's F10 with HK later. It will be interesting ;-)
bluewind is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-28-2013, 05:34 AM   #15
Technic
Lieutenant General
 
Technic's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3, 2014 528i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

Posts: 10,849
iTrader: (16)

Garage List
2004 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewind View Post
Finally got to install the center speaker! Took me 2 hours but I think it was worth it. I am planning to put a mini DIY for super newbies like me because there are so many good threads on this topic but it was super difficult to put things together without prior experience or knowledge.

My quick impression:

Just with MS8 and stock hifi speakers, they sound better than HK premium sound option for most music but vocal is weaker and talk radio sounds pretty bad. Overall much better than stock hifi but not as all around player as HK.

MS8 + center speaker (DLS 424) sounds absolutely better than HK. Bass isn't so bad, either in my opinion. Vocal gets much better and now talk radio is also very clear and enjoyable. I think I need to fine tune the calibration but I can definitely say that the current setup sounds better than my 2 previous E90s with HK.

I am going to compare with my wife's F10 with HK later. It will be interesting ;-)


Keep messing around with the MS-8 settings for sub or front 2-way. Bass is the #2 weakness of the MS-8 calibration in our BMW's. You may need to use the MS-8 EQ or sub level adjustments instead of just straight calibration.

The HiFi OEM woofers have great bass response with a DSP, so this is just a matter of tuning.
__________________
-2015 F30 320i, Imperial/Oyster, 8AT: August 2014 ED
-2012 E92 M3 Jerez Black/Rust Brown, M-DCT: September 2011 ED
-2008 E90 M3 Melbourne Red/Bamboo, 6MT: Gone
-2007 MK5 GTI United Grey/Grey, DSG: Gone
-2004 E46 M3 Carbon Black/Cinnamon, 6MT: Gone
Technic is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-28-2013, 02:33 PM   #16
bluewind
Enlisted Member
 
bluewind's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335is, F10 535i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: California, USA

Posts: 31
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post


Keep messing around with the MS-8 settings for sub or front 2-way. Bass is the #2 weakness of the MS-8 calibration in our BMW's. You may need to use the MS-8 EQ or sub level adjustments instead of just straight calibration.

The HiFi OEM woofers have great bass response with a DSP, so this is just a matter of tuning.
Thanks Technic! I didn't realize how handy your harness and the center speaker set were until I really tried them out. Out of box, I was baffled, but looking back, it was just my ignorance. Your product simply rocks!

Will play around with settings as you mentioned here and in other threads.
bluewind is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-16-2013, 11:59 AM   #17
rancow
Ah-yuh
 
rancow's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 328xi Sedan MT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Maine

Posts: 9
iTrader: (0)

Bluewind... Still enjoy the sound?

Hi,

This is upgrade is exactly what I am considering... I have an 09 328xi with HiFi, limited budget, but the stock tweeters made me listen to NPR.

Now that you have had the upgrade for awhile what do you think? What center speaker would you recommend?

Thanks!
rancow is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-16-2013, 06:45 PM   #18
yatzee
Retired TDI guy
 
yatzee's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 335D
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Montreal

Posts: 87
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335d  [0.00]
i know technic quite liked the Vibe Slick 4 as being a great speaker for a very modest price. They're no longer listed on Vibe's site - not sure where to find them now? Maybe he could chime in?
__________________
2009 335d - JDB - MS-8
yatzee is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-16-2013, 07:55 PM   #19
Technic
Lieutenant General
 
Technic's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3, 2014 528i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

Posts: 10,849
iTrader: (16)

Garage List
2004 M3  [0.00]
The Vibes coaxials were good for the price and use (center speaker).

Any DLS or Alpine coaxial will do fine as well.
__________________
-2015 F30 320i, Imperial/Oyster, 8AT: August 2014 ED
-2012 E92 M3 Jerez Black/Rust Brown, M-DCT: September 2011 ED
-2008 E90 M3 Melbourne Red/Bamboo, 6MT: Gone
-2007 MK5 GTI United Grey/Grey, DSG: Gone
-2004 E46 M3 Carbon Black/Cinnamon, 6MT: Gone
Technic is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-16-2013, 08:29 PM   #20
rancow
Ah-yuh
 
rancow's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 328xi Sedan MT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Maine

Posts: 9
iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the input!
rancow is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-18-2013, 08:47 AM   #21
romanonj
Captain
 
romanonj's Avatar
 
Drives: X3 and 335is w/DCT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Jersey, Ocean County

Posts: 778
iTrader: (12)

Can you please post mounting location for ms8.
__________________
2014 F25 X3 M-Sport Carbon Black, Technology/Premium/Winter/Driver Assistance
2011 e92 335is DCT - Cobb, ETS IC, AFE DCI, BMW PS kit, M3 control arms, various cosmetic improvements RETIRED!
2007 X3 RETIRED!
2006 e90 330i 132k miles RETIRED!
romanonj is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-18-2013, 11:08 AM   #22
D's Bimmer
Captain
 
Drives: 2011 335i Sedan
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronto

Posts: 821
iTrader: (1)

After allot of research and discussions with various custom audio shops, I decided to start with the addition of the JL Audio HD 900/5 channel amp. It is an amazing night and day upgrade to my otherwise stock HiFi System. Phase two will be the addition of a 10" JL Audio sub with a custom fabricated box in the trunk. For space reasons, I will be going with a 500w flatline sub. Phase three will be replacing my front components with the Focal K2 100's. After that, just listening. Although I will say that the biggest difference comes from the amp in my opinion. I know allot of people like to upgrade their speakers first but I always think its better to start with the amp and then add/adjust accordingly afterwards. With proper amplification and calibration the BMW stock speakers are surprisingly good.
D's Bimmer is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:20 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST