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      03-04-2013, 08:21 AM   #89
MEGA
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Hi Mak.

The HO box is ported, not sealedd.

The mids to tweets (4" door ML300 and HT28 tweeter) are crossed over by Audison Voce crossover at 4KHz.

The midbass under the seat is wired active to the amp, but the bit one bandpasses it at HPF70 LPF 350

The sub I have HPF at 200 but with a 24dB crossover curve which means a dramatic reduction in volume fro mabout 160Hz onwards. I have increased this cut off through equalisation so that it doesn't even try anything above 180 or so. However this was required to provide even amplification at the midbass ranges near the top of this number. I did start with a 170Hz cutoff and 12dB crossover curve but was not satisfied with performance in certain songs. I feel better about it this way.

The sound stage is pretty balanced due to the tweeters doing such a good job at producing the 4kHz ranges but also due to the mid getting the extra 500 Hz when compared with alot of crossovers.

I have had to drop down the tweeters at the top end by about 20% as the 165 HSK XL
based HT28 were just too dominant and a bit harsh when paired with the mid from the 163.4 (non XL ) range.

See below:

This is a feed to the crossover, which is split into the mid and tweet:



This is the feed to the underseat 6.5" mids, which I've done very little tuning with, except for increasing a small part of the band due to it "seeming flat"


Lastly this is the sub with the bandpass and explanation to the dramatic equalisation..


I use have the master input set at 0 on my DRC when I want to blast. This is because master input also overrides subwoofer control due to the single input I had. With a seperate input for the sub channel you can truly keep these separated out but it's not a big issue for me.

Sub overrides the master of course, and as you've seen my bass is set to hit HARD at any volume, how I like it. When the other half is in the car though I can take up to 11.5dB off this to make it just a background pump and not a smash in all the senses as it is when full.

I have my balance set in lieu of time delay (which I'm not confident to really tinker with yet). This is set to feed +8, out of a possible 20. This would seem to drag the sound stage quite dramatically to the driver but for whatever reason the BMW input is not equal. The feed from the left door is much stronger than the feed from the left door. So the bit one is taking care of that. I might investigate hifi coding in the future.






Oh yeah, RMS

I have the Hertz HDP4 and Hertz HDP1 as discussed before.
This is FROM MEMORY I MIGHT BE WRONG.. But HDP1 is 2 ohm stable to 600 and 3 ohm stable to 1000, so I imagine it gives the sub about 800 altogether due to the regulated power supply. The sub being a 10W7 is 3 ohm DVC hence the number in the middle.

The front is all powered by the HDP4, with all 4 channels being used:

ch1: Left door
ch2: Left underseat
ch3: Right door
ch4: Right underseat

This is putting out 150w x4 at 4 ohm. Each underseat mid, with the amp gained just below the point of clipping (only tested by ear though, not scoped) - I imagine gets 130-135w. They can take over 200 but I can't provide more!
The crossover recieves the same, which both speakers easilly drink up when pushed to capacity. The HDP4 was specced to match the HSK 165XL series directly.




!

Dave
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      03-04-2013, 08:24 AM   #90
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I'm hoping to hear this beast later on this evening.
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      03-04-2013, 08:31 AM   #91
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Exicintg stuff! Definitely want to hear this later on tonight
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      03-04-2013, 08:35 AM   #92
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MEGA, the install looks insane. Would like to hear this in person but the ACE Cafe is out of the question for me.
Perhaps a video demo ?
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      03-04-2013, 08:46 AM   #93
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I wish I'd had a chance to finish the sound deadening. But for sure if you want to heat the bi-axis of audio quality see sawing around the carpark I'm more than willing to blast it!

On the "see" we have some proper bass and a great front end
On the "saw" we have about 10 quite annoying rattles, but moreover, the entire exhaust attempting to remove itself from the body of the car on every low note.



If I keep the boot open, the audible bass in the cabin drops tremendously but it's much less nasty from outside :P

But it's great in the cabin. Almost painfully loud bass and pretty good top end as well.

Look forward to playing it!

Next step will be the custom Full install going in with the rattle rattle rattle rattles sorted
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      03-04-2013, 08:47 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzle View Post
MEGA, the install looks insane. Would like to hear this in person but the ACE Cafe is out of the question for me.
Perhaps a video demo ?

Dizzle,

Love to - but vid wouldn't do it justice as I won't be able to capture the sound well enough to do it justice

Sooner or later you'll get to see it. Hopefully once finished!

Dave
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      03-04-2013, 11:28 AM   #95
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Dave
Well done. Not to discourage you but so many things going on wrong there. You have two mid drivers, and one of them falls in mid bass + mid range. Mid bass + sub is sharing 1/4 of your under seat mid frequencies and killing the quality of your sound. You sub is playing high frequencies (not sub) and will be overpowering the rest of the system.
You may have loud system but your SQ will be all over the place.

Subjectively, there are fundamental physic laws which define what to expect from different drivers, how they should be set up and hence they are named after their dedicated frequencies. However, at the end of the day, Sound is very subjective. If you like that kind of Sound,
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      03-04-2013, 05:27 PM   #96
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Mate - one thing to understand is that the midbass is directly under the seat and 70% of it is lost due to the positioning. I am fully aware that most would consider it to be set too high ie playing too much of the mid ranges but I felt the sound far too tweet heavy without it.

Hear it some time (ideally once I've sorted the rest of the sound deadening) and I expect you to agree.

HOWEVER. I can see what you're saying about the sub. Rationale is I like it loud. Simple as that. But I can remove up to 11.5 dB from the amp whenever I want.. So when not in shootout mode so to speak, it's not at all overpowering ;-) It simply isn't. But I am after SPL first with the sub.

I wonder if you realise that this is my third massive system, always tuned by myself, and that the last 2 have been magazine featured - but we'll meet some time once I've gotten my sound deadening done


On DSP preset C I have sub at 150Hz cutoff with 12db curve using butterworth which means a sharper taper and less crossover. however I personally feel it sounds significantly worse. but to each their own. I will keep tinkering
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      03-04-2013, 07:04 PM   #97
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WooooooooooW, just jaw dropping, mouth watering, holly crap !!!
Would love to hear it one day =]

Well done for the amount of work and the idea mate...

Here was a bloke at Modified Live in Oulton Park a few years ago :



It was so bloody loud, the guy was revving the diesel engine all the time to keep the charge lol
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      03-04-2013, 07:06 PM   #98
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Matrez - that is something else entirely. "Hair trick" cars are great but it's one biiiig black hole of money for no return

I like the thump from mine but it's a different league to that one

Although, that car is truly hideous to look at.
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      03-04-2013, 07:14 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEGA View Post
Matrez - that is something else entirely. "Hair trick" cars are great but it's one biiiig black hole of money for no return

I like the thump from mine but it's a different league to that one

Although, that car is truly hideous to look at.
Still you have the boot space and rear seats to be used so I prefer your implementation to be honest Its every day living car, not just for showing off lol Instead having your mates on the rear seat, you are having a wall lol

How much did all of that cost if you dont mind asking ? Including labour - if I wanted to do something like that.

This is just exaggeration lol :
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      03-04-2013, 07:26 PM   #100
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That question hurts

Parts were approximately 1600 with most parts at least 40% discounted from new as well, due to various means.

Box and sub alone retailing at 800! With each amp 450, DSP 700, and it just adds up very fast.

Labour was done by a mate (who happens to be a professional audio fitter) along with myself and was just 20/hour. It was 4 full days of 8-9 hours to get to this point. Usually he'd charge 55-60!

Retail cost of everything including labour I've spent is over 3k already, glad I got some good deals!

Total install cost once we do stage 4 (The final stage) which will involve alot of labour and materials could still top 3k But it' been over 4k with 100% retail prices.

Ouch. I hate to think of it in those terms...


There are of course much cheaper routes to get great bass and good sound quality. If I'd have gone for a more sensible route I think 1000 could cover a pretty nice system. I just struggle to make logical choices and compromise sometimes!

Dave
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      03-05-2013, 05:25 PM   #101
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Thats quite a lot, but once again its a dream for some people to have such audio system Every time you turn the music on the money matters dissapear forever. Its worth every penny mate. Ive seen your previous BMW, the E90 320d where you installed fantastic system ! How would you compare previous to the current one ? I suppose the previous one was as expensive as your new one ?
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      03-06-2013, 05:06 AM   #102
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i can personally vouch for how awesome this system is! when dave gave me one of the first previews i was truly shocked at the clarity and level of sound that the system puts out!

obviously being a massive fan of JL's i was eager to see what the HO box could do and dammmmmm does it sound great! well worth every penny for the sub and box! to get that level of sound from a single 10 is mad!!!

dude, are you still doing the flush look with the box in the boot?
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      03-06-2013, 05:36 AM   #103
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Yes mate I'm going to get on it as soon as I can.

I just not 100% where to have the work done right now. How is yours coming along?

Shame you couldn't make it on Monday night wanted to catch up with you and see your interior.

I've got some plans for mine again, just don't tell the other half

Dave
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      03-06-2013, 05:51 AM   #104
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i know dude i wanted to come but i didnt even have my car...the audio is still being worked on but i am hoping to pick it up either today or tomorrow now!

if you need the cosmetic finishing touches done then take a look at mine when completed and you can maybe get my guys to do it! they did my last install too!

hope you dont mind but here is a lil pic of how its coming along...lol

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      03-06-2013, 05:59 AM   #105
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Looks like a lot of work gone into that Dave, hopefully get to hear it one day.

I'd be happy just to get rid of this utter tosh BMW call a sound system!
Is the HU upto the job if i add a harness plus my amps and sub or is it better to get a decent after market HU ?
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      03-06-2013, 06:22 AM   #106
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Sumil! I saw your name on the list for ace cafe, was a shame not to see you there after we all disappeared at the last show.

Thanks Dave for giving me a testing of this build. I may not be the perfect person to critique it, but I thought the clarity in conjunction to the bass output was great. The bass was not overwhelming over the mods and high, but damn was there power!

See you all soon! Quick meet for a bunch of us in the next couple weeks?
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      03-06-2013, 06:23 AM   #107
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Ah Dave one question... How much weight do you think you would have added after all the sound deadening etc.
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      03-06-2013, 06:37 AM   #108
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Josh! yea i know mate!

would definitely be up for a sunday morning meet at Ace to grab some breakfast maybe and a catch up? always a good time to meet

i will have my car back today for about 3 weeks and then i wont have it again for about a month! lol...
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      03-06-2013, 10:51 AM   #109
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Josh

Wouldn't surprise me if I breech the 100 kilo mark in total.

The box and sub alone add 60 kilos or something ridiculous (I did check specs a while back but dont have them to hand now)

Obviously, a less ridiculous box (which weighs alot more than the sub) would lower this dramatically but it'd also dramatically reduce output

Dave

mini meet? Could be up for that once my paintwork is sorted. Few weeks for me though.
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      03-06-2013, 12:36 PM   #110
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Dave, i also have split folding rear seats so may have to follow what you do re the sub. Can't use my Fi IB3
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