E90Post
 


MaxcySpeed & Company
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > 1st Track Day = N54 Engine Failure :(



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-03-2013, 07:25 PM   #67
SneakyDeeky
Major
 
SneakyDeeky's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 E90 335i 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA

Posts: 1,320
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Audi SQ5  [0.00]
2007 BMW 335i E90  [4.83]
UPDATED 3/3 with pics of replacement N54 (see first page). Will continue to update and post pics throughout week
__________________

6MT | JB4 G5 | E60 | Walbro 392 | NGK 5992 | Spec2+ | ER Dual Oil Coolers | ER CP | Synapse BOV | ETS FMIC | 3.46 Wavetrac LSD
BMS DCI | AR DPs | Magnaflow | BSH OCC | KW V1 | M3 Bits | Advan RS | Michelin PSS | LS3 AEs | P3 Boost Gauge | DIY Track Aero Pics | COTM Pics
SneakyDeeky is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2013, 10:17 AM   #68
DallasBoosted
Captain
 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas

Posts: 843
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyDeeky View Post
UPDATED 3/3 with pics of replacement N54 (see first page). Will continue to update and post pics throughout week
Good luck man. Let us know what happened particularly so we can learn from it.
DallasBoosted is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2013, 10:22 AM   #69
135Pats
Ridin around and gettin it
 
135Pats's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Maryland

Posts: 4,443
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
Good luck man. Let us know what happened particularly so we can learn from it.
this thread makes me sad but subscribed for updates. Hope this works out OK for you OP.
__________________
E88 FBO N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Meisterschaft Race/Berk Resonated/Macht Schnell 3"/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/FFTEC LPFP/HFS-4 DO Stainless Lines/BMS DCI/BMS Thermostat Delete/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/BMS OCC/PTF E50/ST Coilovers/M3 Front Control Arms + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/Macht Schnell Studs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance/Cyba
135Pats is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2013, 10:36 AM   #70
jippii ensio
Major
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: On the road

Posts: 1,144
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyDeeky View Post
UPDATED 3/3 with pics of replacement N54 (see first page). Will continue to update and post pics throughout week
Did you read the codes?
jippii ensio is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2013, 02:52 PM   #71
crypticc
Lieutenant
 
Drives: e92 M3 DCT + Comp
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London, UK

Posts: 444
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
Did you read the codes?
No good trying now.

N54FCK = engine missing

Lol
crypticc is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2013, 03:12 PM   #72
Mike@N54Tuning.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: 07335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Earth

Posts: 13,899
iTrader: (83)

Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticc View Post
No good trying now.

N54FCK = engine missing

Lol
Its too early for that kind of humour

Mike
__________________
BEST PRICES GUARANTEED - New N54 Performance Line Downpipes!!
JB4 **G5** On Sale - FREE Shipping Click Me - NEW JB4(N55) & DCI's $95.00
NEW F30 N20/N55 ER Downpipes and Chargepipes - BMS OCC (On Sale)
Mike@N54Tuning.com is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2013, 03:28 PM   #73
SpartanGA
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: TBD
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA

Posts: 388
iTrader: (0)

Oh that sucks. Good luck.

I cannot imagine all involved in swapping the engine in these cars and getting every little connection back.

Time to go to Shiv single big turbo
SpartanGA is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2013, 05:20 PM   #74
crypticc
Lieutenant
 
Drives: e92 M3 DCT + Comp
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London, UK

Posts: 444
iTrader: (0)

Yeah sorry
crypticc is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-04-2013, 05:25 PM   #75
SharkBait
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2010 E92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lost Angeles

Posts: 297
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Subscribed for details on the teardown. I doubt it was an injector issue. And even not knowing anything about the oiling of this engine, I'd still doubt oil starvation. You'd have to be on slicks and killing it plus you'd hear some pretty awful rod knock first.

Did you break the clutch? If you were WOT and your clutch shattered, that could cause some dramatic changes in load on the crank. Maybe the engine over-revved? When's the teardown?

Side question: Does anyone know if you can get real-time oil pressure using the torque app? Is there an oil pressure sensor or just an oil pressure switch?
SharkBait is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2013, 01:17 AM   #76
Ænema
Captain
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Arizona Bay

Posts: 961
iTrader: (0)

SUB'd for teardown pictures/details.

Just a little thinking out loud here: I doubt it was a tune or meth related failure. Even on ACN the DME can handle 14psi@stock timing like a champ. I've seen more than a couple logs of cars having multiple cylinders making 7+ degree corrections at a time and zero issues as a result. In no way am i ever suggesting relying on the DME as a failsafe but shit happens and the DME programming probably saves engines on a daily basis.

The injector stuck open sounds plausible. Large amounts of raw fuel could easily result in a loud explosion, plume of white smoke and engine failure. I actually had the same thing happen to a F150 i had a few years back.

Also, can't really rule out a failure in the top end. Valves are dropped all the time, we're just blessed to have an engine that is mechanically a tank and we don't see that stuff happening(yet...)
__________________
"I'm not surprised you get along well with all the other neighbours. If you put fifty children with Down's syndrome in a room there is going to be a lot of hugging." David Thorne
Ænema is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2013, 10:49 PM   #77
SneakyDeeky
Major
 
SneakyDeeky's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 E90 335i 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA

Posts: 1,320
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Audi SQ5  [0.00]
2007 BMW 335i E90  [4.83]
-------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE #2: 3/5 - Engine removed and root cause identified; hydrolock caused by methanol injection malfunction


Today the failed engine was removed from the car and the cause was identified without even needing to tear the engine apart... excessive methanol injection caused hydrolock which resulted in a hole blown through the bottom end of the long block on the driver side. CRAZY!

This is what I saw when I walked in the shop on my way home from work...



I hope I never see this again...





Failed engine removed from the car (below)



Note the Lamborghini Gallardo in the background



Hole blown through the driver side of the longblock above the oil pan, near the rear of the engine (closer to cylinder 6, farther from cylinder 1)





Chunks of metal were removed from the oil pan and fragments were found in the oil filter (below).





This means my ER dual oil coolers need to be flushed to ensure there's no remaining metal floating around in my oil lines.





Also, still need to inspect the turbos off my failed engine to ensure they're good to re-use on the new engine. I'd prefer to keep them as they only have 12,000 miles on them, whereas the new engine and turbos have ~27,000 miles. Turbos off of replacement engine and various spare parts shown in picture below as the replacement engine is being prepped for transplant surgery (i.e. - carbon buildup being removed and major cleaning to ensure all metal fragments removed).



Mechanic said there were still puddles of pink "boost juice" (pre-mixed methanol and distilled water in 49/51 ratio) inside the cylinders when he first gained access to the intake manifold. Basically, a smoking gun that the engine failure was caused by excessive methanol injection, which resulted in hydrolock. As far as what caused the methanol injection to malfunction, I have no idea. All I know is that my confidence in the BMS Methanol Injection kit is gone. I plan on ditching methanol completely and switching to a more track-friendly tune once my car is back up and running. Mechanic plans to have my car running by Friday (3/8).

Of all the people using JB4 and its functionality as an integrated methanol injection controller, I guess I'm the first lucky one to have this happen.
__________________

6MT | JB4 G5 | E60 | Walbro 392 | NGK 5992 | Spec2+ | ER Dual Oil Coolers | ER CP | Synapse BOV | ETS FMIC | 3.46 Wavetrac LSD
BMS DCI | AR DPs | Magnaflow | BSH OCC | KW V1 | M3 Bits | Advan RS | Michelin PSS | LS3 AEs | P3 Boost Gauge | DIY Track Aero Pics | COTM Pics
SneakyDeeky is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2013, 10:54 PM   #78
135Pats
Ridin around and gettin it
 
135Pats's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Maryland

Posts: 4,443
iTrader: (1)

Wow I didn't expect that particularly, at least you know conclusively what the issue was. Crazy amounts of material in the oil filter!
__________________
E88 FBO N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Meisterschaft Race/Berk Resonated/Macht Schnell 3"/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/FFTEC LPFP/HFS-4 DO Stainless Lines/BMS DCI/BMS Thermostat Delete/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/BMS OCC/PTF E50/ST Coilovers/M3 Front Control Arms + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/Macht Schnell Studs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance/Cyba
135Pats is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2013, 11:01 PM   #79
E90Company
Major General
 
E90Company's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: FL

Posts: 6,138
iTrader: (2)

Sneaky, you may have better luck with the turbo's from the new motor. Reason I say this is your contaminated oil probably reached the turbo's bearings and screwed them up. Keep this in mind, because I would hate to have you button everything up and have issues.

I'm sorry for the loss. It was out of your control, but things happen and I wish you luck. My buddy just lost a motor in his 6.0 powerstroke, due to a lifter failure. It's amazing how the small things often lead to these types of failures.
__________________
E90 N54 6AT
E90Company is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2013, 11:13 PM   #80
Fully_Bolted
Banned
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA

Posts: 443
iTrader: (0)

Sucks about the meth kit. If you go back to meth, look into Cobb with aqua mist HFS4, it disables methanol injection for under OR overflow condition and dumps boost via the waste gates as an additional fail safe.
Fully_Bolted is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2013, 11:14 PM   #81
SneakyDeeky
Major
 
SneakyDeeky's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 E90 335i 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA

Posts: 1,320
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Audi SQ5  [0.00]
2007 BMW 335i E90  [4.83]
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Company View Post
Sneaky, you may have better luck with the turbo's from the new motor. Reason I say this is your contaminated oil probably reached the turbo's bearings and screwed them up. Keep this in mind, because I would hate to have you button everything up and have issues.
Mechanic and I discussed this today and he's going to do a thorough examination prior to install. Based on how the failure occurred, he thought there was a good chance the turbos stopped spooling prior to any metal shavings circulating through the oil line. Any concern or sign of metal fragments will cause us to use the higher mileage turbos that came with the replacement engine. Who knows, maybe RB turbo upgrade later?
__________________

6MT | JB4 G5 | E60 | Walbro 392 | NGK 5992 | Spec2+ | ER Dual Oil Coolers | ER CP | Synapse BOV | ETS FMIC | 3.46 Wavetrac LSD
BMS DCI | AR DPs | Magnaflow | BSH OCC | KW V1 | M3 Bits | Advan RS | Michelin PSS | LS3 AEs | P3 Boost Gauge | DIY Track Aero Pics | COTM Pics
SneakyDeeky is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-05-2013, 11:18 PM   #82
Wes335XI
Second Lieutenant
 
Wes335XI's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 BMW 335XI Space Grey
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Anchorage, AK

Posts: 226
iTrader: (0)

This is interesting. What controls the methanol flow though, isn't it the BMS Solenoid? I think there must be a specific part in the system that failed to allow this to happen. Would be nice if Shiv or Mike could chime in.

I'm concerned because I am running the same system among probably hundreds of other people and I will have to upgrade parts or change things prior to Vargas stage 2.
__________________

08 E92 335XI AT| TCKR SA Coilovers (Spring)|AR DPs|AE Dual Exhaust|aFe DC Intake|ETS 5 FMIC|JB4 G5|BMS Meth Kit|ER CP Tial Q BOV|BMS OCC|Staggered VMR V718|Burning Blue Muteki lugs|DBA4000 Slotted Front/Rear|AXXIS ULT Front/Rear|Stoptech Steel lines Front/Rear|ATESuperBlue|JG Mods MSport|LightWerkz Custom headlights w/ UmnitzaV4|Best ET 12.5@111mph
Wes335XI is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 09:55 AM   #83
Sniz
Lieutenant General
 
Sniz's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 335 - gone // e36 M3 turbo
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ellicott City, MD

Posts: 10,518
iTrader: (1)

one of the reasons i would never skimp on a methanol system if you choose to run it.

Aquamist or nothing. I paid over $1,000 for my system alone with no tank, its worked flawlessly and Jeff Howerton is a genius with the systems. Doesn't get any better.
__________________
Sniz is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 09:57 AM   #84
ajsalida
Major
 
ajsalida's Avatar
 
Drives: 95 M3, 02 R1150GSA, 09 335xi
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SW USA

Posts: 1,427
iTrader: (2)

Never would have guessed this result. I had no idea a failure mode would push that much meth and then only into one cylinder.
ajsalida is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 10:03 AM   #85
David1
Colonel
 
David1's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 E92 09 X5
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City With No Room For Ludicris Speed!

Posts: 2,365
iTrader: (0)

Just replace the oil coolers, you will never be able to flush them out 100%
__________________
2009 335i CoupeLBM - Black Dakota/Glacier aluminum-6spd|Nav|M-Sport|Premium|Logic7|Heated Seats|CA|BMW Performance Suspension & M3 Control Arms|M3 lip spoiler
2009 X5 3.0-AW-Black Dakota/Bamboo|Premium|Tech|Cold Weather|Ipod Rear Climate|

07 335 coupe - Sold
07 X3 - Sold
David1 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 10:03 AM   #86
Sniz
Lieutenant General
 
Sniz's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 335 - gone // e36 M3 turbo
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ellicott City, MD

Posts: 10,518
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Never would have guessed this result. I had no idea a failure mode would push that much meth and then only into one cylinder.
it wasnt into one cylinder, but thats the one that gave up the ghost and quit firing, i'm sure the others saw crazy amounts of meth too.

oh, by the way guys, have you ever put your meth pumps on 100%DC and flowed into a bottle? My aquamist pump can fill the bottle up in a few seconds.....this gives you an idea of how this can kill an engine thats on decel (not firing).
__________________
Sniz is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 10:07 AM   #87
ajsalida
Major
 
ajsalida's Avatar
 
Drives: 95 M3, 02 R1150GSA, 09 335xi
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SW USA

Posts: 1,427
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
it wasnt into one cylinder, but thats the one that gave up the ghost and quit firing, i'm sure the others saw crazy amounts of meth too.

oh, by the way guys, have you ever put your meth pumps on 100%DC and flowed into a bottle? My aquamist pump can fill the bottle up in a few seconds.....this gives you an idea of how this can kill an engine thats on decel (not firing).
OK that makes more sense. I had no idea those pumps flowed that much.
ajsalida is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 10:17 AM   #88
enrita
Major General
 
enrita's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

Posts: 7,316
iTrader: (0)

so you were using the FSB ?
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash
enrita is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
engine failure, hydrolock, n54 335i, sneaky, track

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:06 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST