E90Post
 


ECS BMW
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Advice on long cranks post warranty



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-08-2013, 05:43 PM   #1
quasitime
Private
 
Drives: 2007 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 95
iTrader: (1)

Advice on long cranks post warranty

Update 3/5/2013

-50k miles, plugs replaced @ 48kish
-hpfp replaced
-intermittent long cranks still present (seems to crank strong)
-no misfires
-sometimes idles rough around 600, then rises to 700 or so

What should I start looking at next... injectors? coilpacks?

Quote:
So right now I'm having an intermittent long crank issue. It happens both on cold and warm starts, but tends to actually be longer on a warm start. For example, I've had a situation where it took 5 long cranks before it would start after being driven for an hour or so. And even then, I thought the car just plain wasn't going to start... so I waited 10 seconds or so before attempting the 5th crank.

Here are the relevant details:

-Pulled A0B4 code which points to the starter.... however the starter seems to crank fine every time. The engine just doesn't always catch.
-50k miles
-Spark plugs replaced at 48k
-hpfp replaced in 2010 at some point
-battery is questionable, but it's been charged up to full with a trickle charger. Voltage seemed low in INPA even though charged to full.
-LPFP seems to prime fine
-Warranty is up... so if I take it to BMW they are going to charge me for diag and I have to take all my mods out. And knowing their track record, they won't identify anything.

Right now I think I'm going to start with the battery. Seems like other things it could be are the starter, hpfp (again), lpfp, lp sensor...

Any other ideas?

Thanks...

Last edited by quasitime; 03-06-2013 at 02:09 AM. Reason: update
quasitime is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-08-2013, 05:53 PM   #2
MSPORTWORLD
Major
 
MSPORTWORLD's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 M3 MW/FR - '12 M3 FO/SC
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: California

Posts: 1,179
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by quasitime View Post
So right now I'm having an intermittent long crank issue. It happens both on cold and warm starts, but tends to actually be longer on a warm start. For example, I've had a situation where it took 5 long cranks before it would start after being driven for an hour or so. And even then, I thought the car just plain wasn't going to start... so I waited 10 seconds or so before attempting the 5th crank.

Here are the relevant details:

-Pulled A0B4 code which points to the starter.... however the starter seems to crank fine every time. The engine just doesn't always catch.
-50k miles
-Spark plugs replaced at 48k
-hpfp replaced in 2010 at some point
-battery is questionable, but it's been charged up to full with a trickle charger. Voltage seemed low in INPA even though charged to full.
-LPFP seems to prime fine
-Warranty is up... so if I take it to BMW they are going to charge me for diag and I have to take all my mods out. And knowing their track record, they won't identify anything.

Right now I think I'm going to start with the battery. Seems like other things it could be are the starter, hpfp (again), lpfp, lp sensor...

Any other ideas?

Thanks...
HPFP should still be covered right? Otherwise starting with the battery is probably the best plan of attack. Start with the cheapest possible source for the problem and work your way up.
__________________
MSPORTWORLD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-08-2013, 05:54 PM   #3
CUTigers
Captain
 
CUTigers's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Montego Blue 335i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Atlanta/Lawrenceville

Posts: 859
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 Lexus IS F  [5.00]
2008 e90 335i  [4.50]
You have no reason to take mods out if you went to BMW, you have no warranty to lose. Granted I would take it to an Indy shop anyways, it's cheaper.

How old is the battery?
CUTigers is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-08-2013, 06:01 PM   #4
quasitime
Private
 
Drives: 2007 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 95
iTrader: (1)

Yeah hpfp warranty is still in effect. My worry is that I'll void that if I take it in with mods on.

But otherwise, it's a breath of fresh air not having to worry about my mods anymore.

The battery was replaced in late 2009 so it's a few years old at least.
quasitime is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2013, 01:19 PM   #5
quasitime
Private
 
Drives: 2007 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 95
iTrader: (1)

Does anyone know what the battery voltage should read with the car turned on but the engine not running?

Something like 11.7-8?
quasitime is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2013, 01:36 PM   #6
techwhiz
Lieutenant Colonel
 
techwhiz's Avatar
 
Drives: e90 335i Sedan - Arctic
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bay Area, Ca

Posts: 1,624
iTrader: (3)

Injectors can cause long starts.
Injectors are still under recall for most cars.
techwhiz is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2013, 01:44 PM   #7
quasitime
Private
 
Drives: 2007 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 95
iTrader: (1)

Hmm. So if I take everything out and go into BMW to have my hpfp & injectors checked out... any idea how much they will charge to look at it if I'm out of warranty?
quasitime is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2013, 02:40 PM   #8
ChuckD05
NeedsMoarBoost
 
Drives: 08 135i / 06 e90 325xi
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NY

Posts: 511
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
my dealer doesnt care whats on the car , if he needs warranty work requiring pictures to BMWNA they will tell you and let you pull them... id hate to have it any other way... if no pics or reps are sent they do the work
__________________
08 135i 6m - 12.1@120.2 2.0 60ft - JB4/Meth - SOLD
09 335i e92 Mtech - RB FBO
ChuckD05 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2013, 03:01 PM   #9
quasitime
Private
 
Drives: 2007 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 95
iTrader: (1)

Nice. I'm sure every dealer / SA is different though. I'm still wondering how much they charge on a non-warranty vehicle to do the hpfp/injector tests.
quasitime is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-13-2013, 05:22 PM   #10
quasitime
Private
 
Drives: 2007 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 95
iTrader: (1)

So I have the recalled injectors in my car. I double-checked today when I was replacing some filters.

Car's warranty is up - should I even bother taking my tune out when I take it in... has anyone had experience with this?

Last edited by quasitime; 01-13-2013 at 05:22 PM. Reason: recalled
quasitime is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2013, 03:08 PM   #11
quasitime
Private
 
Drives: 2007 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 95
iTrader: (1)

Long cranks, 4 or 5 in a row cold, or hot, before it starts.

I think I'm going to pay the $150 diagnostic and just take it in with tune in. I don't see why they would look in the ECU box if they're just doing the hpfp test.
quasitime is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 02:09 AM   #12
quasitime
Private
 
Drives: 2007 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 95
iTrader: (1)

Update 3/5/2013

-50k miles, plugs replaced @ 48kish
-hpfp replaced
-intermittent long cranks still present (seems to crank strong)
-no misfires
-sometimes idles rough around 600, then rises to 700 or so

What should I start looking at next... injectors? coilpacks?
quasitime is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 02:32 AM   #13
BillionPa
Second Lieutenant
 
BillionPa's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA

Posts: 288
iTrader: (0)

how long ago was the hpfp replaced?
if it was a while ago it may not be the most recent revision

and yes, injectors next, if they are under recall, they will still be replaced for free even with vehicle out of warranty since they are part of the emissions system
BillionPa is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 02:53 AM   #14
quasitime
Private
 
Drives: 2007 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 95
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillionPa View Post
how long ago was the hpfp replaced?
if it was a while ago it may not be the most recent revision

and yes, injectors next, if they are under recall, they will still be replaced for free even with vehicle out of warranty since they are part of the emissions system
Well the hpfp was replaced 1 month ago. So hopefully that crosses that off the list.

Hmm injectors. Wouldn't injectors cause misfire issues if they were leaky or defective? Just trying to understand how they could cause start issues and work fine otherwise.
quasitime is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 03:40 AM   #15
BillionPa
Second Lieutenant
 
BillionPa's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA

Posts: 288
iTrader: (0)

they would not all the time, there is another thread regarding rough idle... LOTS of info on bad injectors with no misfires or codes

Other things to check that can cause this behavior in all engines (and some N54 specific):

IAT sensor
Boost pressure sensor
Coolant temp sensor
MAP sensor
Throttle body (electronic, controls idle air flow)
Low pressure sensor (did they replace this with HPFP?)
Intercooler (could be filled with oil blowby)
MAF sensor (clean it with MAF cleaner)
Wastegate position (should be fully closed i think)

Some of the values can be read with INPA, they should be ready with engine "on" but not cranked, and during crank, and after successful engine start, then compared to expected values and behavior



when the spark plugs were replaced was dielectric grease used on the ignition terminals?
BillionPa is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 12:04 PM   #16
quasitime
Private
 
Drives: 2007 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 95
iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure if dielectric grease was used. It was done by an indy shop. I'll have to take a look at that rough idle thread but my idle only stumbles lightly every once in awhile - definitely not bad.
quasitime is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 12:41 PM   #17
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 Z06, GSXR-750, 09 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TopGearSolutions.com

Posts: 16,867
iTrader: (31)

Send a message via AIM to Jeff@TopGearSolutions
Don't forget it could be your low pressure pump too...

Do you have a tool that can read BMW codes (i.e. Bavarian Technic Tool), specifically shadow codes? That might throw you a hint.

Your idle being rough could be fuel related and or could be carbon build up in the intake valves, common over 35K miles.
Jeff@TopGearSolutions is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 01:21 PM   #18
quasitime
Private
 
Drives: 2007 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 95
iTrader: (1)

I have INPA so I can read most of the codes and pressure values. Even the lp sensor reading looks good.

I have a0b4 (starter) but the car cranks pretty hard each and every time. I think it throws that code simply because the car fails to start sometimes even though it is cranking.

Is it possible to "clean" injectors with something like techron? I've been wanting to try something like that forever.
quasitime is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2013, 08:05 PM   #19
BillionPa
Second Lieutenant
 
BillionPa's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA

Posts: 288
iTrader: (0)

I use Amsoil PI, which has the same active ingredient as techron
BillionPa is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2013, 06:19 PM   #20
Royce_335i
New Member
 
Drives: BMW 335i 2007
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: UK

Posts: 5
iTrader: (0)

I think normally the problem with the injectors is that they leak causing excess fuel when starting up, not that they need cleaning.
Royce_335i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2013, 11:43 PM   #21
Greatdane84
Leeeroy Jankins
 
Greatdane84's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i e90 LCI
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SW Florida

Posts: 392
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 335i  [5.00]
Quasi can you update us on what happened in the almost 2months this thread was inactive for? You left off talking about going in to the dealer about the injectors and then almost 2 months later you say a month ago your HPFP was replaced. You obviously went to the dealer. Did they replace your injectors? Did you remove the tune?
__________________
e90 LCI w/ -= VRSF 7" FMIC =-
-= Cobb: Stg1 +FMIC Aggressive ST =-
Last Install: BMS DCI + Caliper/Drum Paint

"If you're not 1st, you're last" -Ricky Bobby
Greatdane84 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-08-2013, 06:07 PM   #22
quasitime
Private
 
Drives: 2007 335i 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 95
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royce_335i View Post
I think normally the problem with the injectors is that they leak causing excess fuel when starting up, not that they need cleaning.
I was researching this a bit. How would this cause long cranks... fouled plugs? I'm going to take a close look at the injectors and see if there are any that look messy or discolored.
quasitime is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:04 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST