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      03-12-2013, 05:29 PM   #1
beems
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Negotiating prices on a BMW

Hey guys,

so basically i've been in the search for a 335i coupe 6m/t and have finally found one at a bmw dealership. its a 2010 335i coupe manual with about 26k miles and has a listing price of $38k.

I've already requested more information and what not. the question is, how should have you guys negotiated your prices down? i'm not too familiar with negotiating and would like advice on how to start the negotiating.

any responses would great! thanks!

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      03-12-2013, 05:56 PM   #2
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Give him a firm price and tell him make it work out the door.. Don't know what options this one has but value of a simple one would be 36k I'd tell him 36k out the door I don't care about your dealer fee or taxes w.e make it work
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      03-12-2013, 06:02 PM   #3
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ok, i'll play 50% of my job is negotiating but you have to understand each negotiation is different and depends on several factors including the Salesman's attitude (body language and facial expressions). In addition, you rarely get to negotiate with the decision maker (GM or Sales Mgr) so it does make it a bit more difficult. That said, here are general rules for negotiating for a used car and keep in mind one style does not fit all so I am certain others will make different recommendations.

1) The first rule is don’t fall in love with a car and be assured that it’s not the only one for sale.

2) Confirm the estimated price of the car you’re interested in and start @ 25% lower than this figure.

3) Negotiate one thing at a time and never make a decision under pressure.
- EG; someone is coming in right after you and wants to buy the car.
- settle on the purchase price of the vehicle.
- then, discuss your trade-in if you have one. Never let them focus on a monthly payment or tie them together. That limits your negotiating room.

4) Don't get upset if they come back with a different number as a counter offer, remain professional, and hold your price for now.
- if you must move up do it in small increments. 5-10% at a time.

5) State clearly when you have reached your final offer and be prepared to walk out if the seller is not budging.

GL and have fun.
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      03-12-2013, 06:09 PM   #4
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I just did a quick lookup on kbb.com, and without plugging any options in, but in excellent condition, the car is listed at $34,347, so after adding options and packages in, that number could go up.

That's basically how I negotiated my car last month. You're only going to get a ball park figure, as there are many factors that play into how much you pay. It's more about what you're comfortable with after you know the ballpark figure. Several factors I can think of right now are:

1) Geography. Looking at your profile, you're from SF, so being a big city, the supply might be greater than, say Bakersfield. I live in Fresno, and I was ready to travel to LA, OC, SF, and San Diego for the right car. Ironically, I found mine in Modesto. Because you're in SF, and there's traffic and hills, MT may not be as popular? So you might want to throw that out there. I know 335i MTs are hard to find, but see if you can find more around the state, and find out what they want for each. Pit the dealers against each other.

2) How does the Carfax look? Does it look like it's got two or three owners before you? Was it a personal lease? I'm assuming from a BMW dealership, the chances of having a salvaged car on their lot is zero, so you don't need to worry about that. My car was a personal lease, and only one owner before me, so I was happy with that. Leased cars are generally pretty well-cared for, as the penalty for going over the mileage allotment is pretty hefty, and maintenance is included with the lease (usually). The car was also a local car, so there's not too many unknown history to it.

3) Let them know you're interested, but not interested enough to pull the trigger immediately. Let them come to you. Ask them if they can call you if other people are interested in the car. If no one else is checking out the car, you'll get a call every three days like I did with one of the cars on my shopping list.

4) Once you start the negotiating process, be firm. Let them know this is EXACTLY what you want. You're not settling for a sedan, AT, etc. This is it.

5) Do all of the negotiations on the phone. Have a price pretty much hammered out before you even set foot into the showroom. On the phone you are in control. In the showroom, they are in control. They'll say they need to go ask their manager to see if it's doable. Let them, and then have them call you back. My price was set before I walked into the showroom, but I told them I'm not even going to start the loan process until I have a chance to check the car out and test drive it. They can respect that. At least, if they want your business, they will.

My car had an asking price of $23,590. I talked them down to $20k even before taxes/license. They sold me CPO with the car, so out the door I paid $23,470. But I have a 328i AT, which is run-of-the-mill, much more common than the 335i you're looking for. So it might be tougher to talk them into lowering the price. Just be firm, but don't be an asshole. They deal with assholes on a daily basis. You're not dealing with Bubba from "Joe's Used Car Shack." If they work at a BMW dealership, they have proven sales records, so they're pretty damn good at what they do, and chances are they didn't get there by being a slime ball sales guy.
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      03-12-2013, 07:00 PM   #5
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It is a good idea to get the deal done on the phone. Like the guy said before you have much more control.
Also I like to work with one final number, tax and tabs, misc dealer fees etc... plus the cost of the car.
If possible have proof of a comparable car, lie that you love the comparable.
Next lowball an amount that would make you happy to drive off today. You have to be a bit flexible or they will not work with you. Hopefully you can stick to your guns and get a great price.
If not, go down there to see the car again. Look the car over and explain the comparable is really the right car for you. They will not let you leave the lot, stick to your price. Let them know you need to see the comparable again and leave. The salesman will call you back maybe an hour later or sometimes two days later, regardless at this point he is ready to deal.
Normally I get it done on the phone, but I do love a good deal and if it takes more work so be it.
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      03-12-2013, 07:26 PM   #6
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I'm not a professional or educated negotiator, but I've had good experience with the following 2 simple rules:

1) Know what you're willing to pay before you arrive.

These aren't the good 'ole days where you didn't know much until you arrived at the retail/sales location. Today, you can get virtually all information about an item AND the market demand before you show up, on the internet. Do comparisons with similar feature/packaged cars around the country to see what seems like a reasonable price, and if you still want to go lower than that, so be it. But know your top dollar amount before you walk in, and find a reasonable-but-not-disrespectful amount below that to offer as your starting point.

2) Be prepared to walk away.

That's it...that's the most important rule for me. If you're not prepared to walk away, you're going to lose the negotiation unless you get lucky. Don't haggle...don't complain, and don't try and outsale the salesman (i.e., talking about your Mom's bad hip that you just had to pay to have replaced, etc)...if they aren't willing to come down to your price, say thanks with a smile, handshake, and walk away. The less emotional and disingenuous you are about it, the more likely they are to view you as a calculating person of action...who is likely going to purchase if the right price is offered. If they stop you or contact you afterwards, they're willing to talk, if they don't, they were never willing to come down to that price to begin with.

I recently purchased my 2011 BMW 335i coupe for $35k. I got the lady to come down $2.7k off list price. As soon as I mentioned I liked the car but I needed them to come down on price, she basically said there was no way they could come down more than $300. "There's just not thousands of dollars off list prices like there were before the downturn."

I said okay with a smile, I understood, and I didn't want to waste her time. She gave me a few excuses and sorta pouty looks. I said I understand, and that if they can't come down, then they can't...and that it just wasn't meant to be. Eventually she said that $35.3k was the lowest she could go (off a list price of $37.8k). My top dollar price going in was $35k, so I budged on the last $300. She said she'd have to get approval on that price and that it wasn't guaranteed. I said if she could get approval on that price, I'd walk away with the car today. That was that, and I own the car.

One last thing for you to consider: you stated that it's a manual transmission, which is rare these days. Some of your leverage is lost in negotiations because of that. Simple supply/demand factors there. How much is hard to quantify, though.
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      03-12-2013, 08:02 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by itwinturbo View Post
Hey guys,

so basically i've been in the search for a 335i coupe 6m/t and have finally found one at a bmw dealership. its a 2010 335i coupe manual with about 26k miles and has a listing price of $38k.

I've already requested more information and what not. the question is, how should have you guys negotiated your prices down? i'm not too familiar with negotiating and would like advice on how to start the negotiating.

any responses would great! thanks!

some great advice here- so i'm gonna throw out another option- why arent you leasing? for the amount your paying you could lease a brand new car and order it from the factory just the way you want it...I know I know your throwing away money if you lease and the usual arguments..but I would ask you two questions- how long do you plan on keeping the car and do you intend to mod it. If you plan on keeping the car 3+ years or intend to heavily mod it to the point your not going to want to return to stock- then buy. If less than 3 years and you have good credit- theres no reason other than you have 40k burning a hole in your pocket that it makes sense to buy. with lease rates the way they are- its much less of a burden to lease and you dont have to worry about selling it after 3 years. If your going to drive more than 12000 a year it could be an issue too, but you can buy discounted additional miles...something to think about. If your dead set on buying i would research how long that car has been sitting there- chances are with a manual theres not that many people willing to buy that car and most people in that price range are going to lease a new car- i would offer them 36k at most. if the price is any higher i'd lease a new one...
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      03-12-2013, 08:09 PM   #8
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Well said, Brandon. Sales people deserve to be respected. They get kicked around by others who don't know any better as is. If you treat them with dignity and no bullshit, they usually will return the same favor.
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      03-12-2013, 08:10 PM   #9
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And don't be an ass. They are people too.

I've bought my last few cars over a few days. Went looked got their price, then texted back and forth until we got a deal. Gives me time to think out all the details. I feel like i got a great deal on my 330i.
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      03-12-2013, 08:14 PM   #10
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$369/mo 335i coupe

heres an example of a crazy lease deal- this is even cheaper than the family hookup price i got a few years ago! There is the 4k down but the low monthly makes up for it!


Current 335i Coupe Special Offers
Here's an idea: a performance coupe that comfortably seats four.
The 335i Coupe is so conscientiously designed, its 300-hp, inline six delivers the perfect combination of power and fuel efficiency for an enthralling experience from front to back of its spacious interior.
2013 Financing Offer 2013 Lease Offer
Well equipped including features such as Premium Package (Leather, Lumbar Support and more), Automatic Transmission, Moonroof, Hands-free Bluetooth, iPod/USB adaptor, Alarm, Power Seats and Destination charges.
$369*/month for 36 months. $1,500 Lease/APR Credit and $750 Loyalty Cash included in payment.
Vehicle Registered outside N.Y.
• $369 First months payment
• $3,000 Down payment
• $0 Security Deposit
• $725 Acquisition fee
• $4,094 Cash due at signing
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      03-12-2013, 08:29 PM   #11
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I just bought my wife an X3 this past weekend and went in knowing everything there was about the vehicle we had interest in.

Do your research and verify true market value of similar vehicles for sale in your area. Don't go based on the advertised price or 'internet price' that you see these days.

Make sure you realize the value of the options as that can really change the value. In this case, the car you are looking at has a stick, which believe it or not is becoming a 'value added benifit' because getting a M/T is not an easy find. I turned the tables on them and said 'ya, and how many people want a M/T these days?' By turning it around on them, I now took back some advantage. However, my 2008 335i coupe was 3 years old when I got it and had 22k miles and was seeing asking prices for around 37K when I was looking. Knowing what I paid for my car, you should work towards high 33's to low 34's before you sign the papers.

For my wife X3, which is pretty much loaded also, but many of them are, we walked away $2500 under 'internet price' and $3800 under their list price, just because there is tons of inventory available at competing dealers.

The key thing, keep your cool and ignore the comments you get back from the saleman when they return from their discussion with the manager.

One really good tip if you can, go on a rainy day. Sure you might get wet but most people don't want to shop for cars in the rain. When they had a slow day at the dealership, they are more willing to make a deal.
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      03-12-2013, 09:42 PM   #12
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It's just like dating:

1. Don't be too interested up front
2. Very subtly let them know you have alternatives
3. Be prepared to walk away
4. Don't fall in love

If it's a rare breed and you are very particular, the same rules above apply, but this time you're bluffing which is hard to do. Otherwise expect to pay close to asking price. For my 335i, it was exactly what I wanted and took me 3 months to find it, so I bluffed for as long as I could. Didn't get the best deal but got a decent amount off of asking. Probably paid a little more than a sharp negotiator would have but it was worth it.

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      03-12-2013, 11:43 PM   #13
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There are a lot of good suggestions here and I will offer my thoughts and experience while trying to not rehash what has already been mentioned.

It is difficult to offer an opinion on price because I do not know what options the car has or if it is a CPO or not. Outside of that, used car purchases are about leverage, and judging by what you are looking for you will need some. The best thing to use IMO are (as others have said) comparable other options. You will also want to look at how long the car has been at the dealer, this will tell you how flexible they might be on price (you can get this from the car fax and, if it has been there for a bit, a site like cargurus.com. Don't worry about distance, look within say 500 miles, you can easily say I'll take a drive to save $1k or whatever.

Judging by the list price, I'll bet it hasn't been there that long so you may have some resistance. Dealers tend to soften up after 20-30 days or so. Take a look at bmwusa.com under cpo/model search and cars.com or cargurus.com and find other MT 335s with similar miles and get the details. For example, there is this one:

http://nitra.bmwcpodealer.com/cpo/Ve...-CA/1940055723

2010 29kmi CPO for $34,662 with M-Sport, and it is a recent acquisition. This is a pretty good comp to use because the M-sport package is sought after. It doesn't have premium pkg, but that doesn't matter, even if you really want it, they don't need to know this, just tell them that it isn't that important to you if they ask.

This one:
http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invento...sting=51118712

is very similar to what you described. 2010 25kmi sport, CPO at $38k. However, it has been listed on cargurus for 58 days... in other words it is over priced. They haven't even budged on the asking price, interesting...

Now, to your direct question: Call some comps that you find first and ask them about the car. Let them do their sales stuff so they feel better about themselves, and then tell them that you are looking at a few 335i 's and that you are planning to make a decision soon and simply ask them for their bottom line price. You could even come right out and ask them if they are at all flexible on that number because you saw a couple similarly optioned 335s for less but have something to back this up because they may ask about them. See what they say and thank them give them your information. Do this for all of your comps and then call the dealer with the one you are most interested in and do the same thing, and this time offer them the details about the prices you just got because they are lower of course.

Don't be afraid to thank them and hang up. They will call you back in a day or so. I personally wouldn't commit to anything on the first call, if you really want the deal, call them back after a bit and offer them something under what you are comfortable with and say something like this is what I am willing to pay. See what they say if they take it great, if not say thanks but you are going to call the other guys back. Unless the car has been there for a week or less, they will call you back. There is always the possibility that they will sell the car to someone else, this is the risk you take. If you are close on price, tell them that you are not sure, but you would like to see the car and take if for a test drive. Keep your chin up and don't be afraid to say no. Your only leverage once you walk into the dealership is to walk out.

good luck and let us know how things go.
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      03-13-2013, 04:26 AM   #14
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Well said, Brandon. Sales people deserve to be respected. They get kicked around by others who don't know any better as is. If you treat them with dignity and no bullshit, they usually will return the same favor.
I guess you've had good experience with salesman, because a majority of the ones i have run into are pretty rude. I've walked out on many cars that I liked alot but the salesman was so greedy with the sale. Took me a couple years of getting raped when buying cars to realize a couple things.
1. i won't lease- it's almost impossible to get a good lease deal at most places
2. salesman won't bother with you unless you are at least acting serious to buy the car that day.
3. I won't buy a car unless I have a good downpayment. once they know they will get their commission that day, the deal will get nice.
4. i think it's best you go in their with financing already taken care of also, because that's another spect of the sale i've gotten raped on before too. I havent gotten a great price for the car then my 800+ credit score isn't good enough to get the good financing deal somehow. I learned that one 2 cars ago on a sale when they wanted like 8% interest on loan.
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      03-13-2013, 10:06 AM   #15
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I guess you've had good experience with salesman, because a majority of the ones i have run into are pretty rude. I've walked out on many cars that I liked alot but the salesman was so greedy with the sale. Took me a couple years of getting raped when buying cars to realize a couple things.
1. i won't lease- it's almost impossible to get a good lease deal at most places
2. salesman won't bother with you unless you are at least acting serious to buy the car that day.
3. I won't buy a car unless I have a good downpayment. once they know they will get their commission that day, the deal will get nice.
4. i think it's best you go in their with financing already taken care of also, because that's another spect of the sale i've gotten raped on before too. I havent gotten a great price for the car then my 800+ credit score isn't good enough to get the good financing deal somehow. I learned that one 2 cars ago on a sale when they wanted like 8% interest on loan.
I have dealt with good sales people and bad sales people. I work in the sales industry, so I can pretty much sniff them out within the first five minutes of talking to them. I like the ones that actually know about the cars they're selling. The ones that are gearheads and can name off some great features and explain what they do right off the bat, or the history and focus of the company. Part of being great in sales is to be able to explain to people what they're buying, in terms they understand.

Another part of being great in sales is you have to be passionate about what you're selling. If you're just in it for the commission checks, you're going to suck at it.
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      03-13-2013, 10:59 AM   #16
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I bought my car and negociated about $3K. They listed the car for $25K plus tax etc coming out to be $28K. I bargained and got the car for $25 OTD. Before I walked in, I knew I dont want to pay more than $25K OTD and was ready to walk away a few times but in a professional manner.

I started with $22K, then increased $500-$1K on each counter-offer. They tried to sell me the maintenance plan for $2300 till May-2014, I got that for $1300 and made them give me the second key(car only had one key).
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      03-13-2013, 11:48 AM   #17
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Look, people can't negotiate and argue facts. Look at the market for that car... find similar ones and see what other sellers are asking for it. Compare it to yours. Sometimes, the dealer knows what he has and knows that he has the best price for hundreds of miles... if that's the case, you're up shit creek.

In your case though, this car is overpriced when compared to the market (where I live). The post by KEN1137 is good. Combine that with research on what you SHOULD pay for this car and you will be set.

Remember, be ready to walk away.

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      03-13-2013, 12:28 PM   #18
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hey thanks guys, i really appreciate the input. i'm doing more research and have scheduled to check it out on friday! they did mention about how it automatically goes into a cpo after the standard insurance goes out next year.
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      03-13-2013, 12:30 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by E902009 View Post
I have dealt with good sales people and bad sales people. I work in the sales industry, so I can pretty much sniff them out within the first five minutes of talking to them. I like the ones that actually know about the cars they're selling. The ones that are gearheads and can name off some great features and explain what they do right off the bat, or the history and focus of the company. Part of being great in sales is to be able to explain to people what they're buying, in terms they understand.

Another part of being great in sales is you have to be passionate about what you're selling. If you're just in it for the commission checks, you're going to suck at it.
Oh definitly, I hate when you go for a test drive and the salesman is either acting like he's discoverting things in the car for the first time and its so cool or he's just dumb about the car.
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      03-13-2013, 12:31 PM   #20
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some great advice here- so i'm gonna throw out another option- why arent you leasing? for the amount your paying you could lease a brand new car and order it from the factory just the way you want it...I know I know your throwing away money if you lease and the usual arguments..but I would ask you two questions- how long do you plan on keeping the car and do you intend to mod it. If you plan on keeping the car 3+ years or intend to heavily mod it to the point your not going to want to return to stock- then buy. If less than 3 years and you have good credit- theres no reason other than you have 40k burning a hole in your pocket that it makes sense to buy. with lease rates the way they are- its much less of a burden to lease and you dont have to worry about selling it after 3 years. If your going to drive more than 12000 a year it could be an issue too, but you can buy discounted additional miles...something to think about. If your dead set on buying i would research how long that car has been sitting there- chances are with a manual theres not that many people willing to buy that car and most people in that price range are going to lease a new car- i would offer them 36k at most. if the price is any higher i'd lease a new one...
i wasn't really looking to mod heavy. if anything the plug and play tunes, tint, some wheels to go with it.
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      03-13-2013, 12:58 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by itwinturbo View Post
they did mention about how it automatically goes into a cpo after the standard insurance goes out next year.
I'm not really sure what this is supposed to mean, but I highly doubt any car "automatically goes into a CPO" at any point. They have to do a thorough inspection for it to go into a CPO.
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      03-13-2013, 01:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itwinturbo View Post
hey thanks guys, i really appreciate the input. i'm doing more research and have scheduled to check it out on friday! they did mention about how it automatically goes into a cpo after the standard insurance goes out next year.
Do you mean that the CPO warranty kicks in once the factory warranty expires?
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