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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > M3 V8s - no torque!



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      03-12-2013, 04:04 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Jonjt View Post
Is that their standard positon? Deny the existance of aftermarket products, until the point when someone comes in with coilovers and downpipes? I would think that people interested in tuning are not going to find out about it by reading the warranty agreement. They will either already know or, will know where to find out.

But, I'm just some name and number on some papers somewhere. What do I know about warrantying millions of vehicles?


IMO, if you decide to mod, always have the funds to deal with the conseqences, if something goes boom. Always have a beater, because those commute miles can have a much more detrimental effect that most think.
Who knows what their official or standard position is? But to your last point, its obvious dealers will do anything they can to weasel their way out of work if they suspect or can at least claim some mod had something to do with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
What % of the E9X based M3's have ever been close to a road course?
Who knows and do I even care? Just because someone else hasn't seen a road course is not of my concern. I bought the "ultimate driving machine" for a reason, and it wasn't to sit hard parked. All I know is if I were to choose MY next track car and it came down n54 and s65, it's a no brainer, S65 hands down.


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Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Why the N54 is a pain in my ass at track events.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412156


S65 will just make those weekends so much more fun.
exactly...
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      03-12-2013, 04:47 PM   #90
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That 7-0 has to be on drag strip. On track it would be 0-7 against even stock M3.

The 335i or is are way more easy and cheaper to modify for straight line acceleration. However, this advantage does not mean that S65 is not a better engineered engine for track purposes. Neither does it over come the fact that 335i or is suspension wise or brakes wise or overall transmission technology wise are inferior.

Either way I love both cars but for different reasons.


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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Nice theory, explain this from a few weekends back? The top end with the low RPM crappy gear multiplication N54 against the high RPM excellent gear multiplication ESS supercharged M3 is very interesting.

http://www.esstuning.com/products/E9...er-System.html

BTW I am 7-0 against stock or close to stock M3's at Rockingham & Mexico with a light tune + FMIC 375whp/414ftlbs for about 1K all in.
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      03-12-2013, 04:50 PM   #91
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How many e90/e92 M3s have been sold? How many 335s have been sold?

Compare that to the total enrollment of every message board about these cars.

We are <1% of the owners of these cars that actually come online and talk about them. I bet if you polled every owner you see what the engine designation is in their car they would have no clue. We don't mean shit to BMW corporate in effect of sales numbers.

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      03-12-2013, 05:35 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by DSC_OFF View Post
Who knows what their official or standard position is? But to your last point, its obvious dealers will do anything they can to weasel their way out of work if they suspect or can at least claim some mod had something to do with it.




Who knows and do I even care? Just because someone else hasn't seen a road course is not of my concern. I bought the "ultimate driving machine" for a reason, and it wasn't to sit hard parked. All I know is if I were to choose MY next track car and it came down n54 and s65, it's a no brainer, S65 hands down.




exactly...
Weasel their way out of warranty work. They will however, be glad to charge you the full labor rate for any work they think they can get out of you.
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      03-12-2013, 05:37 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
That 7-0 has to be on drag strip. On track it would be 0-7 against even stock M3.

The 335i or is are way more easy and cheaper to modify for straight line acceleration. However, this advantage does not mean that S65 is not a better engineered engine for track purposes. Neither does it over come the fact that 335i or is suspension wise or brakes wise or overall transmission technology wise are inferior.

Either way I love both cars but for different reasons.
Yes, Fayetteville & Rockingham, just some fun on test & tune nights, also a few in Mexico. As for the other post about never seeing a track my first time out for a pretty consistent 10 year stretch was at Bridgehampton on Long Island in the early ‘60s.

IMHO BMW advertising made up the ultimate driving machine as a sales tool which has worked well even though an infinitesimal number of BMW have ever actually been run.

Personally if I was serious about racing & was going out as much as I could I would not pick a BMW for Drag, Track or both. This is a topic for old threads & has been beaten to death.

Its pretty oblivious I do like BMWs, have 3 of them sitting in my driveway. Its nothing against the M3 & happy to see BMW making some serious adjustments for out of the box power with the upcoming M4. Choice for my next DD will be the M4 or Stingray even though it looks like a Camaro from the back.
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      03-12-2013, 05:51 PM   #94
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      03-12-2013, 09:43 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Good old Juice box! This is my favorite 335I vs Modded M3 vid:

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      03-12-2013, 09:44 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
IMO the S65 is a far overrated engine and doesn't respond as well to mods as most like to believe. I honestly do not car about road racing(if you do, good for you but it's just not my thing) how fun the car is to drive on the street is all i care about.

I will tell you this, i ran a FBO m3 vs my FBO+ meth setup and I was easily 3-4 cars ahead at 140mph and he was not magically closing the distance.
Prove it..
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      03-12-2013, 11:37 PM   #97
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Good old Juice box! This is my favorite 335I vs Modded M3 vid:

Nice vid.

Thinking about it now, it would cost a cool 20k to properly mod an M3 to put down ~560whp. At that price, you are better off just buying a used Turbo S, a ZR1 or a GTR. But, the aesthetic appeal of the S65 M3 can't be matched by those cars, IMO. I'm CLEARLY biased but, gotta accept the facts. It's VERY expensive to make an M3 fast, in a straight line.
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      03-12-2013, 11:38 PM   #98
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Different strokes for different folks, I love my 335, great power potential, good gas mileage, cheaper maintenance, m3 is a great but it lacks power. Track wise m3 is great but I never go to the track so it's pointless. But new m3 with twin turbos... Can't wait for that....
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      03-13-2013, 11:18 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjt View Post
Nice vid.

Thinking about it now, it would cost a cool 20k to properly mod an M3 to put down ~560whp. At that price, you are better off just buying a used Turbo S, a ZR1 or a GTR. But, the aesthetic appeal of the S65 M3 can't be matched by those cars, IMO. I'm CLEARLY biased but, gotta accept the facts. It's VERY expensive to make an M3 fast, in a straight line.
??? I hit 567 RWHP uncorrected with the ESS VT2 625 ($12K) and an x-pipe ($1.2K) on pump gas.

And if you look at the compilation vid posted in this very thread, I put 2-3 cars on a 996 turbo which had a turbo upgrade, exhaust, GIAC tune. Put 2-3 cars on a stock 2013 GTR, and previously at Shift-Sector, tied Robert/Vishnu's built Z06 with heads/cam/exhaust and lightened making 585 RWHP.

I paid a lot less for my M3 plus mods than what these guys have in their cars.
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      03-13-2013, 01:51 PM   #100
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If you really want to go fast, get serious...

$13,995!
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      03-13-2013, 04:59 PM   #101
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      03-13-2013, 06:26 PM   #102
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for the past few weeks i have been driving a 1M around and my cousin just bought a M3. both cars have bolt on exhaust. Stock to stock, the M3 would slightly edge out the 1M from 40-140. Then the 1M owner tuned the 1M. Last night i put at least 4-6 cars on the M3. I personally own an M3 but there is no denying the potential of the N54. Would i trade my M3 for a 335i, no. Would i trade my M3 for a 1M, most likely.
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      03-14-2013, 09:40 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
??? I hit 567 RWHP uncorrected with the ESS VT2 625 ($12K) and an x-pipe ($1.2K) on pump gas.

And if you look at the compilation vid posted in this very thread, I put 2-3 cars on a 996 turbo which had a turbo upgrade, exhaust, GIAC tune. Put 2-3 cars on a stock 2013 GTR, and previously at Shift-Sector, tied Robert/Vishnu's built Z06 with heads/cam/exhaust and lightened making 585 RWHP.

I paid a lot less for my M3 plus mods than what these guys have in their cars.
Well, when I said properly mod, I didn't mean just induction and exhaust mods.

I'm not the kind of person that cares to drag race against other cars. All those kill vids you posted are nice but, you won't find me driving at those events. I much prefer tracking my car, as the forces and sustained speeds (over time) are much higher. As such, I'm not going to take a 500+whp sports car to the track without the proper chassis mods.

Brakes, wheels, tires, coilovers, suspension setup, additional cooling, seats, maybe a partial roll cage, maybe a new diff and maybe chassis stiffeners are all going to add up quite fast.

The cars I mentioned are better suited to track duty than an M3. I'd even think that you could mod all three to produce around 500whp and track them safely and successfully with minimal chassis mods (compared to an M3). The numbers may well be much closer, in that case.


Edit: if drag racing was my only concern, I'd forget the M3 and buy an N54 135i. I'd buy a single turbo from Shiv, all the necessary chassis mods, spend even less money than you did and still beat everyone. But, that's just not my style.

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      03-14-2013, 11:42 AM   #104
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$13,995!
Would get pwned in a long distance drag race. Those things have such ridiculous drag coefficients. Cars are much more aerodynamic.

They are built for track riding.
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      03-14-2013, 11:52 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjt View Post
Well, when I said properly mod, I didn't mean just induction and exhaust mods.

I'm not the kind of person that cares to drag race against other cars. All those kill vids you posted are nice but, you won't find me driving at those events. I much prefer tracking my car, as the forces and sustained speeds (over time) are much higher. As such, I'm not going to take a 500+whp sports car to the track without the proper chassis mods.

Brakes, wheels, tires, coilovers, suspension setup, additional cooling, seats, maybe a partial roll cage, maybe a new diff and maybe chassis stiffeners are all going to add up quite fast.

The cars I mentioned are better suited to track duty than an M3. I'd even think that you could mod all three to produce around 500whp and track them safely and successfully with minimal chassis mods (compared to an M3). The numbers may well be much closer, in that case.


Edit: if drag racing was my only concern, I'd forget the M3 and buy an N54 135i. I'd buy a single turbo from Shiv, all the necessary chassis mods, spend even less money than you did and still beat everyone. But, that's just not my style.
My M3 IS a track car and requires nothing else to be extremely capable at the track. Car is only 6 months over and I have over 150 laps at WSIR.
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      03-14-2013, 12:24 PM   #106
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Quote:
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My M3 IS a track car and requires nothing else to be extremely capable at the track. Car is only 6 months over and I have over 150 laps at WSIR.
I never said your car wasn't capable. I just said that I would do things differently. Lots of people who have supercharged M3s believe the benefits of upgrading the suspension, brakes, wheels, tires, etc, are remarkable. Having driven an M3 hard, I can say that while it's a great car, improvements can still be made. And, I can also say that if I were to build a supercharged M3 with the same modifications you have, I woudn't drive it anywhere near the limit without first modifying all the things I mentioned.


Remember, I cannot speak for you, I can only share my opinion about how I would do things. Obviously, what works for you will not work for me. The idea of what works is a subjective idea, because no one here modifies and tunes their cars with all the tools and procedures that engineers use to asses the performance of their designs. Therefore, what works for someone is basically whatever feels good.
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      03-14-2013, 12:29 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjt View Post
I never said your car wasn't capable. I just said that I would do things differently. Lots of people who have supercharged M3s believe the benefits of upgrading the suspension, brakes, wheels, tires, etc, are remarkable. Having driven an M3 hard, I can say that while it's a great car, improvements can still be made. And, I can also say that if I were to build a supercharged M3 with the same modifications you have, I woudn't drive it anywhere near the limit without first modifying all the things I mentioned.


Remember, I cannot speak for you, I can only share my opinion about how I would do things. Obviously, what works for you will not work for me. The idea of what works is a subjective idea, because no one here modifies and tunes their cars with all the tools and procedures that engineers use to asses the performance of their designs. Therefore, what works for someone is basically whatever feels good.
What do you road race in?
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      03-14-2013, 12:43 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjt View Post
I never said your car wasn't capable. I just said that I would do things differently. Lots of people who have supercharged M3s believe the benefits of upgrading the suspension, brakes, wheels, tires, etc, are remarkable. Having driven an M3 hard, I can say that while it's a great car, improvements can still be made. And, I can also say that if I were to build a supercharged M3 with the same modifications you have, I woudn't drive it anywhere near the limit without first modifying all the things I mentioned.


Remember, I cannot speak for you, I can only share my opinion about how I would do things. Obviously, what works for you will not work for me. The idea of what works is a subjective idea, because no one here modifies and tunes their cars with all the tools and procedures that engineers use to asses the performance of their designs. Therefore, what works for someone is basically whatever feels good.
To each his own I guess. I ditched my FBO/meth n54 335 with coils and an LSD as it sucked at the track and in a straight line, comparatively.
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      03-14-2013, 12:57 PM   #109
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What do you road race in?
I used to race an FSAE race car, with Formula SAE. Not racing anything now. I don't have a car worth tracking. I was thinking about buying an M3 at the end of the year, provided things go well for me financially. I just don't know which generation. I'd love to have an E92 for mixed track/street use but, an E36 or an E46 would be cheaper and, I could really turn them into track "beasts".
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      03-14-2013, 12:58 PM   #110
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To each his own I guess. I ditched my FBO/meth n54 335 with coils and an LSD as it sucked at the track and in a straight line, comparatively.
Definitely agree about the 335's chassis not being an M3 rival on the track. But, those single turbo N54s are ridiculous in a straight line.
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