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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > M3 V8s - no torque!



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      03-14-2013, 10:27 PM   #111
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I used to race an FSAE race car, with Formula SAE. Not racing anything now. I don't have a car worth tracking. I was thinking about buying an M3 at the end of the year, provided things go well for me financially. I just don't know which generation. I'd love to have an E92 for mixed track/street use but, an E36 or an E46 would be cheaper and, I could really turn them into track "beasts".
Nice, What school did you run with?
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      03-15-2013, 11:49 AM   #112
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Nice, What school did you run with?
Cornell.
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      03-15-2013, 02:11 PM   #113
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My son-in-law was in the Duke U program while at their Pratt School of engineering.
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      03-15-2013, 02:39 PM   #114
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My son-in-law was in the Duke U program while at their Pratt School of engineering.
Nice. They have an aggressive aero package on their latest car.
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      03-15-2013, 04:08 PM   #115
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Yeah, looks like a dirt track car
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      03-15-2013, 09:27 PM   #116
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Those are the two exact cars on my list of replacement for e92 335i tuned when it retires. Are you a mind reader.


[quote=BEAR-AvHistory;13627871
Choice for my next DD will be the M4 or Stingray even though it looks like a Camaro from the back.[/QUOTE]
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      03-16-2013, 11:37 AM   #117
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Yes, def S65's are trash. We should leave them in junkyards and drive back in a N54-powered car. I don't know why race teams use S65 in their race cars. In ALMS BMW use S65 in their Z4! L O L They must be stupid that they replaced the almighty N54 with that weak engine. If they kept the N54 and spent $2000 in mods they would get a car with more WHP than what S65 makes at crank. That car would totally rock in a drag strip. Drivers would really enjoy the 10 second of not doing anything but mashing the pedal. Hell even they would be able to start in 2nd gear! because of that TQ down there. Can a S65 do that? Hell no. Who cares if up top the snails run out of breath honestly? N54 has TQ. We don't care if TQ has nothing to do with acceleration. Carol Shelby said TQ wins races, he must be right. Gearing? What's that? Sorry i didn't hear you... You said M3 puts more TQ to the ground due the gearing? Nonsense. I don't care if your car spins up to 8250RPM, with a $450 JB4 i can smoke your car....

Gentlemen, The N54 is a great engine. But talking down on the S65 just because it doesn't have the same tuning potential as the N54 is just silly. If you bought your cars because of tuning potential or how cheap aftermarket mods for your car are, you got the wrong car. LSx powered cars are for you. And as for the TQ, i invite to check both cars gear ratios and then decide which car makes more sensible torque.
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      03-16-2013, 01:53 PM   #118
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Yada yada yada, Same old but my M3 is better on the track even though 99% will never see a track view. Guess that is important to some because the typical street view sucks.

Its really great that BMW is greatly improving its street view with the M4. Cuts my choices down to M4 or StingRay
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      03-16-2013, 02:22 PM   #119
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2JZ > all
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      03-16-2013, 04:07 PM   #120
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You're right, all of the engineers knew that someone would build a 650whp+ single turbo upgrade for the N54...
Technically, it has been done with many other 6 cylinder engines..lol...so it's nothing new.Like the dude before posted, Supras have been doing it for decades..and so have skylines and others.
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      03-16-2013, 06:19 PM   #121
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The new M4 will make all this noise a moot point, straight 6 with twin turbos and 450BHP stock. Add a tune if you wish(aren't happy) and it's all over. Looks like BMW learned their lesson with leaving so much on the table with the N54.
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      03-17-2013, 03:30 PM   #122
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I wonder if there will be any parts from the new M4 N54 that can be swapped onto our N54? Easy cam upgrade? Intake mani? Turbos! I like the idea of cross-model compatibility. Just imagine the easy power potential of the N54, except it begins at 450hp. I wonder if BMW is counting on the M4 becoming the next tuner car? GT-R killer? Price is probably going to go up tho.
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      03-17-2013, 04:14 PM   #123
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They are calling it a different N number but saying its a 3 liter. I don't think any real specs have come out yet so there is no way to tell. Being a tuner car will depend on how they choose to lock down the ECU. I expect their warranty claim experience with the N54/54 will have something to do with that.

My opinion is not locking up the ECU is what I would do to get a lot of free marketing buzz on the car & yes the price will go up. M5 = $108K, M6 coupe same options = $120K. Don't think the spread will be the same but there will be a spread.
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      03-17-2013, 06:20 PM   #124
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Yep. N54 rules all and S65 sucks. You all win. Happy?? I'm happy with my low low tq and that stupid high revving engine. What a shitty sound it makes. I mean what was the M division thinking making this stupid track car? Why??? Stupid idiots. I should have picked the superior, cheap and easy to modify engine!! Oh well, I guess I will live with it.....it's only a stupid M3. I mean it's not what the ultimate driving machine is.... The ultimate driving machine is a straight 6 with 2 snails right? Go drive it and then come back.
Not saying that it's not a great car, it is but you people basr everything on daily driving, low end tq, and easily modifiable engine, NOT driving pleasure. I'll take that over fast straight line monster any day. My 335 never put a smile on my face from driving it as much as my M3 puts just walking to it. That's what it's about, not fast. If fast is what I wanted, would have bought a civic and put a big ass turbo in it and smoked every 335i, M3, Ferrari....etc

Peace I'm out.…
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      03-17-2013, 08:33 PM   #125
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Yeah, looks like a dirt track car
Yep! Did your son-in-law get any seat time in the car?
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      03-17-2013, 09:41 PM   #126
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Not that he mentioned
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      03-17-2013, 09:47 PM   #127
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Yep. N54 rules all and S65 sucks. You all win. Happy?? I'm happy with my low low tq and that stupid high revving engine. What a shitty sound it makes. I mean what was the M division thinking making this stupid track car? Why??? Stupid idiots. I should have picked the superior, cheap and easy to modify engine!! Oh well, I guess I will live with it.....it's only a stupid M3. I mean it's not what the ultimate driving machine is.... The ultimate driving machine is a straight 6 with 2 snails right? Go drive it and then come back.
Not saying that it's not a great car, it is but you people basr everything on daily driving, low end tq, and easily modifiable engine, NOT driving pleasure. I'll take that over fast straight line monster any day. My 335 never put a smile on my face from driving it as much as my M3 puts just walking to it. That's what it's about, not fast. If fast is what I wanted, would have bought a civic and put a big ass turbo in it and smoked every 335i, M3, Ferrari....etc

Peace I'm out.…
Sorry everybody is not as impressed with your car as you are but such is life. I don't expect people to be impressed with my M4 when it comes out but that's just me.

I buy my cars for me not for what someone else on a web site might think of it.
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      03-18-2013, 01:58 AM   #128
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Yada yada yada, Same old but my M3 is better on the track even though 99% will never see a track view. Guess that is important to some because the typical street view sucks.
This my 3rd E9x M3 and this car does get tracked regularly. By regularly i don't mean once a year or something like that, twice a month is more like it. Recently i added a new toy to my garage so M3 gets less touch with track's surface than it used to get, however it's not retired yet. Only in this car i've blown 2 diff's. So you get the idea that i don't baby the car in tracks.

But again i'm saying, if you guys think S65 sucks because there is no Terry in our community that offers $500 piggyback which adds 200hp, you are out of your minds. According to that logic the Ferrari F136FB must be the worst engine in the world because tunes only give 20hp and they cost a few thousand.
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      03-18-2013, 02:26 AM   #129
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Funny this debate has been going on for years. I have friends from BMW meets and the N54 community. Through out the years they said all the same generic statements in this thread. But the amusing part is a lot them are now driving second hand E9x M3's. I usually give them a little ribbing when I see them at events.
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      03-18-2013, 10:23 AM   #130
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Yes & they really get pi**ed when some dares to mention a Mustang Laguna Seca or Shelby in the track car debate.

I did the going to the track every weekend back in the dark distant past but always trailer-in because I am not a big fan of street/track cars. That being said if I did, I even though its my current intention to buy a M4, there are a number of other cars I would buy for a dual purpose car before the BMW.
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      03-18-2013, 11:56 AM   #131
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Yes & they really get pi**ed when some dares to mention a Mustang Laguna Seca or Shelby in the track car debate.

I did the going to the track every weekend back in the dark distant past but always trailer-in because I am not a big fan of street/track cars. That being said if I did, I even though its my current intention to buy a M4, there are a number of other cars I would buy for a dual purpose car before the BMW.
With 4 doors...what?
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      03-18-2013, 12:08 PM   #132
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Yep. N54 rules all and S65 sucks. You all win. Happy?? I'm happy with my low low tq and that stupid high revving engine. What a shitty sound it makes. I mean what was the M division thinking making this stupid track car? Why??? Stupid idiots. I should have picked the superior, cheap and easy to modify engine!! Oh well, I guess I will live with it.....it's only a stupid M3. I mean it's not what the ultimate driving machine is.... The ultimate driving machine is a straight 6 with 2 snails right? Go drive it and then come back.
Not saying that it's not a great car, it is but you people basr everything on daily driving, low end tq, and easily modifiable engine, NOT driving pleasure. I'll take that over fast straight line monster any day. My 335 never put a smile on my face from driving it as much as my M3 puts just walking to it. That's what it's about, not fast. If fast is what I wanted, would have bought a civic and put a big ass turbo in it and smoked every 335i, M3, Ferrari....etc

Peace I'm out.…
Calling all PROUD M3 OWNERS...

No one can really say the M3 sucks, out right. At least, I cant, and for the reasons mentioned. Most are saying, the rush of power from a N54 is more pleasurable and cost effective, so it seems to be the better choice for this consideration.

I've driven both, and was initially shocked at how dull the power in the M3 felt. It was boring, granted in the twisties it's a thrill. But, since I drive in the city, I like to be safe an go fast in a straight line. Driving an M3 encourages you to go fast around turns, which is when major accidents can happen.

An M3 is purpose built. I have no purpose for an M3. That is all.
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