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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Installed G5 ISO a few nights ago and need some help with issues



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      03-30-2013, 07:53 AM   #45
s3ries
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
A properly functioning wastegate should never rattle at any position under any circumstances so maybe they were not adjusted right when replaced? The G5 can do a lot more than the G4 can in terms of masking rattle though. If you are running ISO drop them a note and they can help you sort it out.

Mike
i had no rattle without the jb4 installed on my car, but as soon as the g5 came along, i have a rattle as if they were never replaced... not complaining tho lol
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      06-14-2013, 11:16 AM   #46
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I'm here too. Asking for help. My story goes like this...

A couple of days ago my car was fully stock. It did not suffer wastegate rattle. Well it rattled a bit when starting cold engine but as I drive off my yard the rattle was always gone.

I ordered JB4 G5 ISO from BMS. There was slight misunderstandig and they actually delievered me integrated. I did not check this when I installed it. So I actually installed JB G5 integrated. After installing JB4 I tried if the car started properly. Yep... no fault codes and actually it did not rattle at all (normally it rattles a bit with cold engine at idle)! So I tought this is going well. I took my laptop and installed latest ISO firmware (ISO_23). Started the engine again and my god! It rattled like hell! I asked Terry what's wrong and he asked me if I'm sure it is ISO. So I teared my car apart again and found out I had integrated chip. So I cut off the diodes and uploaded ISO_23 firmware again. The rattle is still there! I adjusted default wg position all the way from 80 to 26 before the rattle was gone. And even at 0-26 it rattles a bit when I accelerate normally (not putting pedal to the medal). So I asked Terry again if he know what's the issue with ISO-firmware making my car rattle, but it looks like he doesn't believe that I did not have this rattle problem with stock or JB4 integrated. He just told me to get some new turbos (which in this case sounds bit stupid from my point of view... as the car was just fine a couple of days ago without the mod). Turbo feels very laggy also with JB4 (G5 ISO). I really have to wait for it to wake up.

So does anyone really know what is going on? It really is not about the G5 board being integrated or isolated as the problem arises with integrated chip also if ISO firmware is installed on it. What differences these firmwares have that could affect rattling?
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      06-14-2013, 11:22 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veeksi View Post
I'm here too. Asking for help. My story goes like this...

A couple of days ago my car was fully stock. It did not suffer wastegate rattle. Well it rattled a bit when starting cold engine but as I drive off my yard the rattle was always gone.

I ordered JB4 G5 ISO from BMS. There was slight misunderstandig and they actually delievered me integrated. I did not check this when I installed it. So I actually installed JB G5 integrated. After installing JB4 I tried if the car started properly. Yep... no fault codes and actually it did not rattle at all (normally it rattles a bit with cold engine at idle)! So I tought this is going well. I took my laptop and installed latest ISO firmware (ISO_23). Started the engine again and my god! It rattled like hell! I asked Terry what's wrong and he asked me if I'm sure it is ISO. So I teared my car apart again and found out I had integrated chip. So I cut off the diodes and uploaded ISO_23 firmware again. The rattle is still there! I adjusted default wg position all the way from 80 to 26 before the rattle was gone. And even at 0-26 it rattles a bit when I accelerate normally (not putting pedal to the medal). So I asked Terry again if he know what's the issue with ISO-firmware making my car rattle, but it looks like he doesn't believe that I did not have this rattle problem with stock or JB4 integrated. He just told me to get some new turbos (which in this case sounds bit stupid from my point of view... as the car was just fine a couple of days ago without the mod). Turbo feels very laggy also with JB4 (G5 ISO). I really have to wait for it to wake up.

So does anyone really know what is going on? It really is not about the G5 board being integrated or isolated as the problem arises with integrated chip also if ISO firmware is installed on it. What differences these firmwares have that could affect rattling?
with ISO23, you can can tune wastegate position when in idle and very low throttle inputs which it seems is what you've already done. but you can also tune the wastegate position in low throttle and that should take care of your rattle. you have to be patient though. check the sticky on n54tech for detailed info on these two menus.

with that said, your lag is caused by the value 26 you entered which leaves the wastegate pretty open and hence turbo needs longer to spool hence the lag.
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      06-14-2013, 12:33 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marv85 View Post
with ISO23, you can can tune wastegate position when in idle and very low throttle inputs which it seems is what you've already done. but you can also tune the wastegate position in low throttle and that should take care of your rattle. you have to be patient though. check the sticky on n54tech for detailed info on these two menus.

with that said, your lag is caused by the value 26 you entered which leaves the wastegate pretty open and hence turbo needs longer to spool hence the lag.
I think you are missing my point.

In integrated the defaul wastegate position is 80. And there was no rattle.

With ISO the default wastegate position is also 80. With hell a lot of rattle. Going to 26 is causing laggy boost.

Is this correct?

If it is, the question #1 is: How come the wastegate rattles in ISO but not in integrated if it is in same position!? There has to be something else going on too?

...and the question #2 is. Is there really such benefits in ISO that it is still better with wastegate at position 26 compared to integrated with wastegate at position 80?

BTW: It is quite hard to find explanations about menu 12 as it is not mentioned in original post...
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      06-14-2013, 12:38 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veeksi View Post
I'm here too. Asking for help. My story goes like this...

A couple of days ago my car was fully stock. It did not suffer wastegate rattle. Well it rattled a bit when starting cold engine but as I drive off my yard the rattle was always gone.

I ordered JB4 G5 ISO from BMS. There was slight misunderstandig and they actually delievered me integrated. I did not check this when I installed it. So I actually installed JB G5 integrated. After installing JB4 I tried if the car started properly. Yep... no fault codes and actually it did not rattle at all (normally it rattles a bit with cold engine at idle)! So I tought this is going well. I took my laptop and installed latest ISO firmware (ISO_23). Started the engine again and my god! It rattled like hell! I asked Terry what's wrong and he asked me if I'm sure it is ISO. So I teared my car apart again and found out I had integrated chip. So I cut off the diodes and uploaded ISO_23 firmware again. The rattle is still there! I adjusted default wg position all the way from 80 to 26 before the rattle was gone. And even at 0-26 it rattles a bit when I accelerate normally (not putting pedal to the medal). So I asked Terry again if he know what's the issue with ISO-firmware making my car rattle, but it looks like he doesn't believe that I did not have this rattle problem with stock or JB4 integrated. He just told me to get some new turbos (which in this case sounds bit stupid from my point of view... as the car was just fine a couple of days ago without the mod). Turbo feels very laggy also with JB4 (G5 ISO). I really have to wait for it to wake up.

So does anyone really know what is going on? It really is not about the G5 board being integrated or isolated as the problem arises with integrated chip also if ISO firmware is installed on it. What differences these firmwares have that could affect rattling?
From the firmware notes:

Quote:
Added menu 12 in dash which allows adjustment of the low part throttle
wastegate position. Together with the default wastegate position
adjustment in menu 10 this allows full adjustment of wastegates during
tip in and partial throttle mapping. The default setting in ISO21 is
32 while previous versions had a default of 26. Values of 25 to 38 are
accepted. In addition to low throttle response this setting also
impacts wastegate rattle during low throttle acceleration. Some cars
rattle less with a higher setting and others rattle less with a lower
setting. So feel free to play around. Going too high on either menu 10
and/or menu 12 will result in uneven low throttle acceleration,
oscillation, and other headaches. If you want to smooth the throttle
response out reduce both values as much as possible. If you want to
put it on edge raise them as much as possible.
Adjust menu 12 for rattle during low throttle and menu 10 for rattle during no throttle. And remember that lowering these values especially menu 10 means the wastegates are more open during cruise, like the factory tuning and G4/G5 integrated, which means slower boost response. It is a trade off. BMW has decided to sacrifice response for less chance of rattle so if you prefer their decision set this value low like 20-30. If you want more response set it higher like 60-80. Good condition wastegates that are properly adjusted from BMW will not rattle with any setting. It's always the older cars or wastegates that were installed by a dealer technician but not adjusted properly that are subject to these rattle headaches.

Mike
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      06-14-2013, 01:07 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
From the firmware notes:



Adjust menu 12 for rattle during low throttle and menu 10 for rattle during no throttle. And remember that lowering these values especially menu 10 means the wastegates are more open during cruise, like the factory tuning and G4/G5 integrated, which means slower boost response. It is a trade off. BMW has decided to sacrifice response for less chance of rattle so if you prefer their decision set this value low like 20-30. If you want more response set it higher like 60-80. Good condition wastegates that are properly adjusted from BMW will not rattle with any setting. It's always the older cars or wastegates that were installed by a dealer technician but not adjusted properly that are subject to these rattle headaches.

Mike
Does JB4 G5 INTEGRATED have default wastegate position 80 or not!?
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      06-14-2013, 01:18 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veeksi View Post
Does JB4 G5 INTEGRATED have default wastegate position 80 or not!?
Integrated uses BMWs default wastegate position whatever it might be for your specific DME version.

Mike
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      06-14-2013, 01:29 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Integrated uses BMWs default wastegate position whatever it might be for your specific DME version.

Mike
OK. Well that explains it. This is the piece of information I needed in first place.

So that means that my wastegate was in 0-26 position as a stock. Or integrated. So it shouldn't be any use to connect the diodes again and go back to integrated JB4. Even tough some people have done exactly that after suffering rattle with ISO. Some even say that going back to integrated has removed the turbo lag as well. But that should not be possible?
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      06-14-2013, 02:15 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veeksi View Post
OK. Well that explains it. This is the piece of information I needed in first place.

So that means that my wastegate was in 0-26 position as a stock. Or integrated. So it shouldn't be any use to connect the diodes again and go back to integrated JB4. Even tough some people have done exactly that after suffering rattle with ISO. Some even say that going back to integrated has removed the turbo lag as well. But that should not be possible?
Menu 12 is relatively new so most of what you've read pre-dates it.

Mike
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      06-15-2013, 04:33 PM   #54
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I finally got all of g5 installed yesterday and all I can say is it pulls way smoother and harder than ever before, can't wait to see the improvements once I add in e85
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      06-16-2013, 10:49 AM   #55
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Today I decided to try map1 (used map5 before).

Map1 seems to work better. Throttle response is better and turbo lag isn't that bad. Car doesn't rattle at idle anymore (even at wastegate position 80)!!! But it still rattles when I have gear in and don't push gas pedal (decelerate). As soon as I'll press clutch or rpm goes below 1200, rattling stops. Would it be possible to adjust wastegate so that it at 0-20 position when deceleration but at 80 when idle or under acceleration? That would solve the rattle for me without that laggy turbo.

Power delivery is weird when accelerating slowly at low rpm. It feels like there's a drop in power curve at about 2000rpm.
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