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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Vishnu ST and Vargas TT BBQ Shootout



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      03-31-2013, 06:47 PM   #133
Vargasturbotech
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Originally Posted by V8bait View Post
Yes, with increased VE, no matter how you accomplish it, you get more air/fuel into the cylinder. But this is a twofold event you are talking about with a larger turbo here in relation to power and heat. Part of the reason you are getting more air/fuel into the engine, is because you are removing more spent gas (and heat) from the engine (you know this very well from your singles great performance on pump even with the same boost/IAT's, due to increased exhaust flow/scavenging). Less volume taken up by old, used gas, more taken up by fresh, cool gas. In fact, from this standpoint alone you can also argue that thermal management (such as octane requirements and water injection) is easier on high VE engines, because spent gas really only serves the purpose of heating up the incoming air, which forces you to reduce timing to prevent knock, and thus increases EGT due to deviating from MBT.

I see what you are saying here though. More air/fuel in a cylinder gives you more potential energy during the combustion event, and this energy must be dealt with somehow. You've made this point throughout the thread and it's critical no doubt. Just remember, that the total (in essence) EGT is a sum of heat leftover from the previous combustion event (decreases with higher VE) + wasted heat from current combustion event (which increases with VE), and that the ladder form is the least destructive to the engine when due to retarded timing. Now if you want to look at it from a turbo life expectancy well there's really no argument there (heat and pressure as you say), but this is looking at safe power for the engine IIRC.

EGT is a number. How it's generated, and thus the analysis, is key for engine life. Some things, like turbo's, O2's, etc really only care about the number, but not everything is about the turbo. On your ST, I would presume EGT plays a much larger role due to the O2 placement and closed loop nature of things. But for this build, EGT is more just a stress for the turbines in this regard.

My $0.02c
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      03-31-2013, 06:51 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
this is now the 3rd thread with my name in the title directly compared to you. I have never made one with your name in it, nor would I.
Shiv didn't make this thread, and to be fair the other two threads were made because of direct comparisons you made to his products first. .
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      03-31-2013, 07:03 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue View Post
Shiv didn't make this thread. .
not sure where I said it was, if you can point it out that would be great. But the last 2 before this on most certainly were.

I will leave you guys with this, as a twist of fate us, FFTEC, and Shiv are all in the bay area. The offer for the dyno day BBQ is 100% out there for Shiv to accept, I will modify a LP line to facilitate draining off fuel and filling up with 91 as Shiv first requested before that thread got deleted. If he wants to run other fuels we can do that too. THIS ENTIRE post was created about the dyno shootout. So lets do this as soon as we finished tuning we are ready. So Shiv go ahead and pick a day, shoot we can even do it at FFTEC, I don't care, I do not need a "3rd party dyno" as you suggested. That's what people need when they are afraid someone might cheat. So go ahead and except the offer in public or continue to dance around it and shove engine theory down people throats and try to confuse them. All anyone who is buying your kit or mine cares about in the end is, power levels, reliability, streetability, and for some time slips, engine theory is reserved for people like you me and select few others. Hopefully we can have a nice friendly Bay Area BBQ and put some cars on a Dyno, if not I understand. Cheers guys, you can write anything else you want. I'll go back to real life for a few days like I did since thursday and not look at any forum. Go be with your families on the holiday.
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      03-31-2013, 07:07 PM   #136
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This thread delivers and has more drama than Jerry Springer and Maury combined.
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      03-31-2013, 07:41 PM   #137
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I think you should travel out of the homeland (bay area) for the shootout and BBQ. May I suggest the mid-atlantic area, perhaps Maryland? You guys on the west coast better appreciate such a high concentration of talent in your vicinity (tuning, performance shops, kit builders).

Signed,
Jealous on this side of the country.
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