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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N55 Turbo Engine Tuning and Exhaust Modifications - 335i Tuning > taking n55 335xi in to dealer - car seems slow



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      03-30-2013, 02:17 PM   #1
blk335xi
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taking n55 335xi in to dealer - car seems slow

I don't know where to begin, but my '12 335xi coupe just seems to not be building the boost it should. My car is bone stock with 10k on the clock, and I don't have the time/expertise to run a boost pressure test. I want to take the car into the dealer and have them check it out, but my issues are just so vague. I'm not sure if they will actually test things out or turn me away because nothing is actually 'wrong' with the car.

It definitely feels noticeably slower than even 5k miles ago.

Here are my observations:

-When the motor is cold, the car is ungodly slow.
-The BOV hiss sound seems to kick in at odd times even under full throttle
-At over 5k rpms under load the power band seems to die



Do you think it's worth a trip to the dealer?
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      03-30-2013, 02:50 PM   #2
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1) You shouldn't be putting more than a feather's touch on the motor when it's cold - keep it under 3k rpm's until the motor warms up. Wait until temps have risen to 200 degrees or higher.
3) the max hp/tq in the 335 N55 comes very early. Max Torque is at 1200rpms for example.
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      03-30-2013, 09:09 PM   #3
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Stock 335i x-drive is very slow. You're probably used to the power and need more. Time to get your car tuned.
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      03-30-2013, 11:17 PM   #4
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Can't say anything helpful other than on number 3. You can thank the small single twinscroll turbo for that one. The turbo's efficiency basically dies past 5k Rpms, and you're actually losing boost pressure at that point.
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      04-01-2013, 08:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Wingman-
Can't say anything helpful other than on number 3. You can thank the small single twinscroll turbo for that one. The turbo's efficiency basically dies past 5k Rpms, and you're actually losing boost pressure at that point.
Always the bashing on BMW...

Did you guys ever think about the concept of the N55? BMW mounted a small turbo because they wanted a lag-free response of the engine! They have a max torque curve starting at 1200 RPM and ending past 5000 RPM. That is the RPM you would normally use in a daily drive base...

They did NOT design the engine to be tuned past 400 hp and they did NOT design it for people driving it like bogus...

They really did an excellent job on the engine and they need respect for this!!!
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      04-01-2013, 04:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elinstylez View Post
Stock 335i x-drive is very slow. You're probably used to the power and need more. Time to get your car tuned.
"very slow?"
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      04-01-2013, 04:58 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by elinstylez View Post
Stock 335i x-drive is very slow. You're probably used to the power and need more. Time to get your car tuned.
Um, no.
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      04-09-2013, 04:40 PM   #8
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Definitely NOT slow...
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      07-03-2013, 01:18 PM   #9
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LOL so defensive... my car felt really slow stock but that's compared to my previous Evo 9. With JB4 it's better but there's no violent acceleration like the Evo has.
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      07-03-2013, 03:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elinstylez
Stock 335i x-drive is very slow. You're probably used to the power and need more. Time to get your car tuned.
Last two sentences are truth. First sentence is rubbish.
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      07-03-2013, 04:30 PM   #11
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To the OP... if you can feel a difference from your butt dyno, than I would take it in. The mechanic should know what the car feels like accelerating and can run logs to make sure the boost is hanging in there and pushing the power it should. its a $55k car, its definitely worth it to make sure your 335 runs like a 335 and not a 328!!

If you get a tune (JB4 FTW!!), its only 300 or so bucks now a days, and you can easily tell if there are issues using that software. You can even make one of your gauges a faux boost gague!

The XI should make zero difference in speed. Maybe handling... but definitely not speed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_Belgier View Post
Always the bashing on BMW...

Did you guys ever think about the concept of the N55? BMW mounted a small turbo because they wanted a lag-free response of the engine! They have a max torque curve starting at 1200 RPM and ending past 5000 RPM. That is the RPM you would normally use in a daily drive base...

They did NOT design the engine to be tuned past 400 hp and they did NOT design it for people driving it like bogus...

They really did an excellent job on the engine and they need respect for this!!!

the n55 is a bigger turbo than the twin turbos on the n54. the n54 definitely spools up faster and IMO is a better engine... however!!... the "twin scroll" of the bigger n55 turbo helps eliminate some turbo lag that bigger turbos usually have by restricting the airflow and pressure thus getting higer boost quicker, which leads to great torque at ~1500 rpms.

no bashing for sure! N55 is a great engine! but bigger turbos have their positives and their negatives regardless of the nameplate on the car.
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      07-03-2013, 06:36 PM   #12
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This might be stupid, but have you ever looked at your chargepipe? Even with a stock engine, they are still known for cracking.
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      07-04-2013, 07:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRT14PimPin07 View Post
This might be stupid, but have you ever looked at your chargepipe? Even with a stock engine, they are still known for cracking.
good point....I had a similar issue with my ER charge pipe not being installed properly...car felt 10 times better once that was fixed.
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      07-07-2013, 09:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWysong View Post
The XI should make zero difference in speed.
This idea is entirely wrong, as are all the naysayers in this thread spreading misinformation. The XI's are significantly slower than the RWD versions. AWD saps a good amount more power due to additional parasitic loss, the figures are 10-18% drivetrain loss for RWD cars and 17-28% for AWD. FWD cars have much shorter drivetrains and lose 10-15%.
Additionally, auto cars lose 2-5% more than manual cars. You'll never see an X-drive car put down as much power mod for mod as a RWD model, and they're also a bit heavier.

On the bright side you can launch the hell out of them and they do extremely well in adverse road conditions.
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      07-07-2013, 09:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hetzle View Post
This idea is entirely wrong, as are all the naysayers in this thread spreading misinformation. The XI's are significantly slower than the RWD versions. AWD saps a good amount more power due to additional parasitic loss, the figures are 10-18% drivetrain loss for RWD cars and 17-28% for AWD. FWD cars have much shorter drivetrains and lose 10-15%.
Additionally, auto cars lose 2-5% more than manual cars. You'll never see an X-drive car put down as much power mod for mod as a RWD model, and they're also a bit heavier.

On the bright side you can launch the hell out of them and they do extremely well in adverse road conditions.
Good for you. Now put it back into the context it was used and you wasted a lot of time typing that.
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      07-07-2013, 10:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divisionbell77 View Post
Good for you. Now put it back into the context it was used and you wasted a lot of time typing that.
"The XI should make zero difference in speed. Maybe handling... but definitely not speed."

That's the context, his thoughts couldn't be clearer- he thinks that the XI option only affects handling, and not speed. He, and anyone else who believes that is flat out wrong, XI cars are significantly slower in a straight line than RWD cars. Sure is a lot of butthurt going around, maybe you ought to read better
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Last edited by hetzle; 07-07-2013 at 10:20 PM.
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      07-08-2013, 09:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hetzle View Post
This idea is entirely wrong, as are all the naysayers in this thread spreading misinformation. The XI's are significantly slower than the RWD versions. AWD saps a good amount more power due to additional parasitic loss, the figures are 10-18% drivetrain loss for RWD cars and 17-28% for AWD. FWD cars have much shorter drivetrains and lose 10-15%.
Additionally, auto cars lose 2-5% more than manual cars. You'll never see an X-drive car put down as much power mod for mod as a RWD model, and they're also a bit heavier.

On the bright side you can launch the hell out of them and they do extremely well in adverse road conditions.
That is old information on AWD systems, you will find that newer AWD systems are actually pretty close to the RWD counterparts. I would be shocked if it was more than a 5% difference between the 2. 15 crank hp isn't going to make a significant difference. Look at the trap MPH between the 2 and you can tell the HP is very similar.
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      07-08-2013, 10:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by JETmn View Post
That is old information on AWD systems, you will find that newer AWD systems are actually pretty close to the RWD counterparts. I would be shocked if it was more than a 5% difference between the 2. 15 crank hp isn't going to make a significant difference. Look at the trap MPH between the 2 and you can tell the HP is very similar.
They tend to dyno a bit more than 5% lower since most xi's are automatics, also they have a significant amount of added weight. Stock weight for a 335xi is 3825lbs, which is 200+lbs extra. There aren't any N55 xi trap speeds that I can find on here or dragtimes, and then we would have to find a RWD model with the same mods.
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      07-11-2013, 04:12 PM   #19
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XI is slower, but dont tell me they are 20% slower. I run high 12's with a JB4 and DCI only, trapping about 106-107 mph which is only about .5 or less seconds off a similarly tuned rwd. Slower car yes, due to some loss of power through the AWD system, but they are not significantly slower. I also have auto trans, which loses even more power, and still am right along side manual 335i's
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      07-11-2013, 06:58 PM   #20
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At what distance does the loss of power become noticeable? I know the rwd is quicker in the 1/4 mile but which one is quicker 0-60 and by how much?
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      07-11-2013, 09:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hetzle View Post
They tend to dyno a bit more than 5% lower since most xi's are automatics, also they have a significant amount of added weight. Stock weight for a 335xi is 3825lbs, which is 200+lbs extra. There aren't any N55 xi trap speeds that I can find on here or dragtimes, and then we would have to find a RWD model with the same mods.
You will notice that I didn't say anything about car speed, just HP. The times I saw the AWD was 2-3 mph slower in the 1/4 than a RWD for a stock car, most of that would be accounted to the extra weight.
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      07-11-2013, 11:31 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by CWysong View Post
XI is slower, but dont tell me they are 20% slower. I run high 12's with a JB4 and DCI only, trapping about 106-107 mph which is only about .5 or less seconds off a similarly tuned rwd. Slower car yes, due to some loss of power through the AWD system, but they are not significantly slower. I also have auto trans, which loses even more power, and still am right along side manual 335i's
I never said 20% slower, I said they have more drivetrain loss. If you got 20% slower out of the numbers above, you need to check your math. Ex. RWD manual 335i has ~15% loss, AWD auto has ~22%. RWD auto has ~17%, AWD manual has ~20%. So the difference can be anywhere from ~3-7%, this is why 5% is a fair number to use just keep in mind that it all depends on which 2 cars you're comparing.

On the 1/4 mile stuff- Your ET is lower because you can launch better, but you'll be trapping 2-3 MPH lower than RWD cars (assuming equal drivers/mods). That's the difference between a stock 335i and a tuned one. 2-3 MPH is roughly a car length, which is a significant, every-day measurable amount. Maybe you and I have different definitions of "significant"


Quote:
Originally Posted by JETmn View Post
You will notice that I didn't say anything about car speed, just HP. The times I saw the AWD was 2-3 mph slower in the 1/4 than a RWD for a stock car, most of that would be accounted to the extra weight.
Are you not reading the same stuff I am? You said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JETmn
Look at the trap MPH between the 2 and you can tell the HP is very similar.
Trap MPH measure's a car's speed, so unless you're measuring Mustache Pie Heat or something... See above for why 2-3 MPH is a big deal.
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