E90Post
 


PYSPEED
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Help with Problem on Startup, Day After Getting Car Valeted



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-30-2013, 05:10 PM   #1
pits200
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 09 335i X-Drive Black Sapphire
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh

Posts: 1,898
iTrader: (0)

Help with Problem on Startup, Day After Getting Car Valeted

Don't want to get into the back story now but the car was running great and had it valeted yesterday. Guy commented on how much faster it was than other 335s he's driven when he gave it back.

Car was sounding funny driving home on the 10 minute trip, this morning I go to start it up and it sounds horrible. It would have to be one hell of a coincidence. Any help appreciated.

I am getting codes 10924 10739(Whatever lpfs is) 12234 and 12250. I just changed the low pressure sensor and nothing in regard to the sound.

Anyone have any help with INPA if I can read anything. Thanks

pits200 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-30-2013, 05:26 PM   #2
psmitty95
Brigadier General
 
psmitty95's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E90 335i xDrive
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Greenwich, CT/ Dallas, TX

Posts: 3,610
iTrader: (8)

Did you take the car to this guy?



Edit: Wish I could have found the clip of him jumping the ferrari, much better than them just giving him the car. Anyways wish I could help but that sounds terrible and I have no idea what it could be... Hopefully one of the other guys has an idea
__________________
< Click picture for photoshoot
E90 335i xDrive 6spd, Nav, Prem, Cold Weather, & Sports package - Msport Conversion
Mods: FBO + Meth JB4 ISO, BB flash, VRSF DP/FMIC, ER CP, Stett, SteveAZ LPFP & more
More Pictures: Build Thread /// Shop I use: Aci Dynamix 408AWHP/ 483AWTQ Uncorrected Mustang Dyno
psmitty95 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-30-2013, 06:42 PM   #3
cstavaru
Brigadier General
 
cstavaru's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 335i M Sport Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Posts: 3,235
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
Guy commented on how much faster it was than other 335s he's driven when he gave it back.
Vanos and possible fuel pump codes.

Wtf...did the guy have the chance to drive the car when it was cold ? If he redlined your car when it was cold he could do some damage.

It's your fault, anyway.
cstavaru is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-30-2013, 06:45 PM   #4
pits200
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 09 335i X-Drive Black Sapphire
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh

Posts: 1,898
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
Vanos and possible fuel pump codes.

Wtf...did the guy have the chance to drive the car when it was cold ? If he redlined your car when it was cold he could do some damage.

It's your fault, anyway.
I dropped the car off with him on the front end so it was obviously warm and on the pickup end I saw him drive it from the lot after the cold start and he drove it normal.

Trust me, I don't like leaving my car with valet but you have to trust people in the world and sometimes there is no choice but to valet.

So hopefully your only being sarcastic on the last part.
pits200 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-30-2013, 06:46 PM   #5
pits200
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 09 335i X-Drive Black Sapphire
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh

Posts: 1,898
iTrader: (0)

And that squeal at the beginning is what is scaring me the most its not from the serpentine belt, it sounds like its from near the firewall.
pits200 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-30-2013, 06:56 PM   #6
GmoBmw
Captain
 
GmoBmw's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: California

Posts: 645
iTrader: (8)

I always just turn my turbos off. make it NA before getting valet.
__________________
2007 BMW 335I- JB4 G5,DCI,VRSF DPs,NT555r Drag Radials Daily Driver
GmoBmw is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-30-2013, 07:07 PM   #7
X1 Trojan
Go Dodgers?
 
X1 Trojan's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 BSM X1 xdrive35i Msport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 1,561
iTrader: (13)

if you didn't make a claim before you left, I doubt they would honor anything if you approach them now. good luck with the process and getting car fixed.
__________________
X1 Trojan is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-30-2013, 07:12 PM   #8
pits200
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 09 335i X-Drive Black Sapphire
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh

Posts: 1,898
iTrader: (0)

Trust me, i'm not looking to place blame, it's a losing battle. I'm just curious what the issue might be.


After starting it, there is a ton of raw fuel coming out of the exhaust. It's actually dripping, is it possible it can be an o2 sensor?
pits200 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-30-2013, 08:39 PM   #9
BMWM.D.
Stupid Idiot
 
BMWM.D.'s Avatar
 
Drives: E90 335i & C6 Grand Sport
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Santa Barbara

Posts: 686
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
Trust me, i'm not looking to place blame, it's a losing battle. I'm just curious what the issue might be.


After starting it, there is a ton of raw fuel coming out of the exhaust. It's actually dripping, is it possible it can be an o2 sensor?
Probably a leaking injector. The fault codes you posted don't mean anything to me (generic codes), but usually raw fuel out the exhaust is an injector failure. Usually you will get various misfire codes, as well as either low/high pressure fuel sensor codes.

Be careful, as I've had N54's almost hydro-lock on me from fuel leaking into the cylinders from injector failure.
__________________
BMWM.D. is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-30-2013, 08:49 PM   #10
pits200
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 09 335i X-Drive Black Sapphire
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh

Posts: 1,898
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWM.D. View Post
Probably a leaking injector. The fault codes you posted don't mean anything to me (generic codes), but usually raw fuel out the exhaust is an injector failure. Usually you will get various misfire codes, as well as either low/high pressure fuel sensor codes.

Be careful, as I've had N54's almost hydro-lock on me from fuel leaking into the cylinders from injector failure.
Thanks bmwm.d, I know from your posts you're extremely knowledgeable. I was getting a misfire on cylinder 4 multiple times it was only that cylinder. I had the car towed to the dealership and at minimum I'll pay the diagnostic fee and hopefully that will narrow down the issue.

What about the squeal at first? And is there any possibility of 02 sensor? I thought the 09s and laters had the updated injectors and less prone to issues.
pits200 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-30-2013, 11:26 PM   #11
E92mech
E92
 
Drives: 2010 E92 Le Mans M-Sport
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Maryland

Posts: 117
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
Vanos and possible fuel pump codes.

Wtf...did the guy have the chance to drive the car when it was cold ? If he redlined your car when it was cold he could do some damage.

It's your fault, anyway.
I dropped the car off with him on the front end so it was obviously warm and on the pickup end I saw him drive it from the lot after the cold start and he drove it normal.

Trust me, I don't like leaving my car with valet but you have to trust people in the world and sometimes there is no choice but to valet.

So hopefully your only being sarcastic on the last part.
I don't trust anyone with my BMW.
E92mech is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-30-2013, 11:58 PM   #12
Tiago@VRSF
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Tiago@VRSF's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i, F30 328i, F82 M4
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hudson, MA

Posts: 7,061
iTrader: (94)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to Tiago@VRSF
Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
Trust me, i'm not looking to place blame, it's a losing battle. I'm just curious what the issue might be.


After starting it, there is a ton of raw fuel coming out of the exhaust. It's actually dripping, is it possible it can be an o2 sensor?
What makes you think it's fuel vs condensation coming from the exhaust?
Tiago@VRSF is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2013, 02:33 AM   #13
pits200
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 09 335i X-Drive Black Sapphire
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh

Posts: 1,898
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post
What makes you think it's fuel vs condensation coming from the exhaust?
It's black and when I wipe it on my finger it smells horribly like unburnt fuel.
pits200 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2013, 10:25 AM   #14
Tiago@VRSF
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Tiago@VRSF's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i, F30 328i, F82 M4
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hudson, MA

Posts: 7,061
iTrader: (94)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to Tiago@VRSF
Thick & black usually ends up being oil
Tiago@VRSF is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2013, 12:03 PM   #15
BMWM.D.
Stupid Idiot
 
BMWM.D.'s Avatar
 
Drives: E90 335i & C6 Grand Sport
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Santa Barbara

Posts: 686
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
Thanks bmwm.d, I know from your posts you're extremely knowledgeable. I was getting a misfire on cylinder 4 multiple times it was only that cylinder. I had the car towed to the dealership and at minimum I'll pay the diagnostic fee and hopefully that will narrow down the issue.

What about the squeal at first? And is there any possibility of 02 sensor? I thought the 09s and laters had the updated injectors and less prone to issues.

I rarely see 02 sensor issues on these cars. Doesn't mean one can't go bad, but my bet is on something else. If the exhaust smells like raw fuel, it's sure to be an injector issue.

I'm not exactly sure what that noise was when it first started -- but it could be something to do with the fuel system that's related to the root cause of your problem (injector, high-pressure fuel pump, etc.). I'd be chasing the performance/driveability issue first, and wouldn't be too concerned with the noise for now.

Just keep in mind, IF it is a leaking injector (and raw fuel is entering the exhaust system), you can have a bunch of secondary faults that can throw you. A while back I repaired a car with a leaking injector, and for quite a while afterwards I was still getting oxygen sensor and fuel trim faults from the residual fuel in the exhaust. The good news is you don't seem to be driving the car around like an idiot, so that's good. The last one I had actually melted a primary cat from extended driving with the injector failure.

I think I've posted this before, but most of the badly leaking injectors I see these days are on '09+ cars. I'm not sure why.... but the older style injectors don't seem to do this. Sure, they cause rough running on cold-start and misfires, but I don't think I ever saw an '07-08 car fail like that.

Good luck getting it taken care of....
__________________
BMWM.D. is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2013, 09:27 AM   #16
pits200
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 09 335i X-Drive Black Sapphire
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh

Posts: 1,898
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWM.D. View Post
I rarely see 02 sensor issues on these cars. Doesn't mean one can't go bad, but my bet is on something else. If the exhaust smells like raw fuel, it's sure to be an injector issue.

I'm not exactly sure what that noise was when it first started -- but it could be something to do with the fuel system that's related to the root cause of your problem (injector, high-pressure fuel pump, etc.). I'd be chasing the performance/driveability issue first, and wouldn't be too concerned with the noise for now.

Just keep in mind, IF it is a leaking injector (and raw fuel is entering the exhaust system), you can have a bunch of secondary faults that can throw you. A while back I repaired a car with a leaking injector, and for quite a while afterwards I was still getting oxygen sensor and fuel trim faults from the residual fuel in the exhaust. The good news is you don't seem to be driving the car around like an idiot, so that's good. The last one I had actually melted a primary cat from extended driving with the injector failure.

I think I've posted this before, but most of the badly leaking injectors I see these days are on '09+ cars. I'm not sure why.... but the older style injectors don't seem to do this. Sure, they cause rough running on cold-start and misfires, but I don't think I ever saw an '07-08 car fail like that.

Good luck getting it taken care of....

Great call, so the dealership did some work on the car and swapped the 4th injector to cylinder five and the code moved to the 5th cylinder. So they're gonna look over things with the remainder of the diagnostics time but it seems to be a slam dunk that it's the injector.

What is your recommendation in regard to changing just one of the injectors? So 4 options.

A.) Swap 1 with the same model injector as the other 5
B.) Swap 1 with the newest model injector from BMW
C.) Swap 3 on the same bank with the same model injectors
D.) Swap 3 on the same bank with the newest model injectors.

Thanks again for your help, it made it an easy phone call to handle from the dealership knowing what to expect. And for the $100 diagnostics fee it saves me the time that I don't have to troubleshoot.

Also, does this probably mean it was just a coincidence that the injector went after the valet drove it. It doesn't seem like excessive driving would lead to an injector issue?
pits200 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2013, 01:03 PM   #17
DJtoad
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2010 535i M Sport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ellicott City, MD

Posts: 387
iTrader: (1)

You can't mix the new style injector with the old and it's doubtful the dealership will even have the old style in stock (most got sent back to BMW). I'm afraid they're going to have to swap out all six and it's not going to be cheap -- probably at least $1500.
__________________
2010 535i M Sport - Platinum Gray/Dakota Black/Anthracite Bamboo
Premium, Value, Cold Weather, Sport Auto, Navigation, Satellite, Logic 7, Comfort Access, Park Distance, Fold Down Rear Seats, Heated Rear Seats, Rear Side Airbags, JB4 Stage 3, BMS DCIs, BMS OCC, Proform Clear Bra, LUX H8 LED angel eyes
DJtoad is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2013, 01:15 PM   #18
pits200
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 09 335i X-Drive Black Sapphire
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh

Posts: 1,898
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJtoad View Post
You can't mix the new style injector with the old and it's doubtful the dealership will even have the old style in stock (most got sent back to BMW). I'm afraid they're going to have to swap out all six and it's not going to be cheap -- probably at least $1500.
Just talked to the dealership and they have the 261s in stock which I think is the version right after the original. They have them for 120 each, I'm not even sure if that is my injector model being an 09 with an 01/09 build date.
pits200 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2013, 01:22 PM   #19
DJtoad
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2010 535i M Sport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ellicott City, MD

Posts: 387
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
Just talked to the dealership and they have the 261s in stock which I think is the version right after the original. They have them for 120 each, I'm not even sure if that is my injector model being an 09 with an 01/09 build date.
That's good the hear -- they can simply replace the failed injector then. 261 is the one you want.
__________________
2010 535i M Sport - Platinum Gray/Dakota Black/Anthracite Bamboo
Premium, Value, Cold Weather, Sport Auto, Navigation, Satellite, Logic 7, Comfort Access, Park Distance, Fold Down Rear Seats, Heated Rear Seats, Rear Side Airbags, JB4 Stage 3, BMS DCIs, BMS OCC, Proform Clear Bra, LUX H8 LED angel eyes
DJtoad is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-03-2013, 08:50 PM   #20
BMWM.D.
Stupid Idiot
 
BMWM.D.'s Avatar
 
Drives: E90 335i & C6 Grand Sport
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Santa Barbara

Posts: 686
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
Just talked to the dealership and they have the 261s in stock which I think is the version right after the original. They have them for 120 each, I'm not even sure if that is my injector model being an 09 with an 01/09 build date.
I haven't logged on in a couple days.....what did you end up doing?

If it were my car, I'd probably replace all with the updated design, but I like to do things the right/best way on my cars. You could just replace the 1 injector with a "261" part number (index number 10 or lower on injector) as a cheaper solution; if available. The earlier style injectors are all compatible with each other, so it doesn't matter what you have now as long as they aren't the updated 13 53 8 616 079 part number.
__________________
BMWM.D. is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-04-2013, 05:14 PM   #21
pits200
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 09 335i X-Drive Black Sapphire
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh

Posts: 1,898
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWM.D. View Post
I haven't logged on in a couple days.....what did you end up doing?

If it were my car, I'd probably replace all with the updated design, but I like to do things the right/best way on my cars. You could just replace the 1 injector with a "261" part number (index number 10 or lower on injector) as a cheaper solution; if available. The earlier style injectors are all compatible with each other, so it doesn't matter what you have now as long as they aren't the updated 13 53 8 616 079 part number.
Haven't got the car yet, been traveling this week for work so I'm going to get it tomorrow. I'm not one to usually go cheap on fixing something but $1200 to get all the new injectors vs. $120 for just the one. If another one craps out down the road, I'll probably then spring for 6 new model ones.

I'll keep you updated and thanks again for the help.
pits200 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:32 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST