[Mk23]

Looking to get my OEM front brake pads changed out with Hawk brake pads (these), was wondering if anyone has any experience with these particular brake pads and did you notice any loss in grip or bite when stopping once they were on. I'd like someone from 09 and prior to chime in if possible due to 2010s and up switching to softer brake pads (Jurid 208 organic compound, from Jurid 422 (semi-metallic I think)) and therefor in comparison will probably feel better than OEM.

Was looking to replace my fronts to ceramics due to an ongoing squeal problem (only when at low speeds and after car is driven for 35-45 mins) and was not wanting to lose the bite and grip I get when braking. I have tested a 2010 335i that had a mushier brake feel and wanted to avoid that with the new pads. Also, will a difference in compounds or grip from front to rear pads (rear being Jurid 208 Organic and the fronts possibly being the Hawk Ceramics) mess with the balance of the car under hard braking? I have heard you aren't supposed to mix and match brake pads due it it possibly changing the braking characteristics of the car. Anyone heard of this?


Thanks a bunch.

[bender rodriguez]

Ceramics don't stop as well when they get hot.

[David1]

A lot less initial bite to. I have them on my X5 and they suck, but the wheels are cleaner!

[Gbiz]

I have these on my 335i and they work well. They throw out significantly less dust than the stock pads. The stopping power is definitely a little less than stock, especially if you're running autocross heating them up; however, they still work well and would work fine for your application.

[bender rodriguez]

Originally Posted by David1

A lot less initial bite to. I have them on my X5 and they suck, but the wheels are cleaner!

Rather have dust and stop on a dime

[e92oholic]

Originally Posted by David1

A lot less initial bite to. I have them on my X5 and they suck, but the wheels are cleaner!

I disagree with a lot less initial bite. I have had them on my 545 and 335 and its very minimal. Wheels stay super clean. and dust just washes off

[Rmk392]

initial bite is not great. I ended up switching back to OEM pads of it.

[Mk23]

Well crap. Not what I was hoping for. And I can't just do OEM due to the squeal. Any other ideas? Want to switch to a different compound in hopes of getting rid of the squeal. Originally was told ceramics were the way to go but I don't want to lose any stopping power or bite. FYI my rears are organics, is this going to be an issue to mix and match?

[idrift4wd]

Originally Posted by Mk23

Well crap. Not what I was hoping for. And I can't just do OEM due to the squeal. Any other ideas? Want to switch to a different compound in hopes of getting rid of the squeal. Originally was told ceramics were the way to go but I don't want to lose any stopping power or bite. FYI my rears are organics, is this going to be an issue to mix and match?

Hawk HPS

[PichaDis11]

Why blame the issue on pads for the squeals? You probably should check your rotors also while you are at all this IMO.

[e92oholic]

Originally Posted by Mk23

Well crap. Not what I was hoping for. And I can't just do OEM due to the squeal. Any other ideas? Want to switch to a different compound in hopes of getting rid of the squeal. Originally was told ceramics were the way to go but I don't want to lose any stopping power or bite. FYI my rears are organics, is this going to be an issue to mix and match?

They are not as bad as everyone says here. You most likely not even notice a difference unless your tracking your car or race between red lights. Just get them, and make sure you follow the bedding procedure on the box.

[Mk23]

Originally Posted by idrift4wd

Hawk HPS

That the semi-metallics? If I wanted semi=metallics I'd just stay with my OEMs, but again... the squeal...

Originally Posted by PichaDis11

Why blame the issue on pads for the squeals? You probably should check your rotors also while you are at all this IMO.

Because I have had every part under the sun thrown at the problem over my 6+ visits to the dealership for this problem, including rotors. Only thing that they didn't change out was different pads (they tried new OEM pads too and they didn't fix it). They did fix one of the rear squeal by changing the rears to an organic compound (2010 model 335i pads) but I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with organics on fronts too (or on the rears for that matter).

Originally Posted by e92oholic

They are not as bad as everyone says here. You most likely not even notice a difference unless your tracking your car or race between red lights. Just get them, and make sure you follow the bedding procedure on the box.

I do drive hard though, not beat the piss out of it, but hard. Round corners at 80%-90%, hard braking when I am driving spirited, and panic braking every few days (Florida drivers...). Hoping the fade is not noticeable since these instances are usually not lined up one after another (like track braking/driving would be)


Anyone know if two different compounds of brake pads from front to rear will play with the handling of the car during braking? Also, can you get aftermarket brake lines or something to get more "bite" with braking? Was thinking if I lose some bite with ceramics I might could try and compensate for it somewhere else.

[335dFan]

Curious how you see such a wide variety of reported results. This can't be something that one just has an opinion on can it? It does have initial bite or not. It does squeal or not. It does stop better when hot or not.

Can this be attributed to other factors like the age of the brake fluid or type, the bed-in process that was used, the brake lines (OEM) or stainless, the rotor type or condition. I know the OP maintains that all other factors were ruled out, but wow.

Seems kinda puzzling that there would be such diametrically opposed results.

[Mk23]

Originally Posted by 335dFan

Curious how you see such a wide variety of reported results. This can't be something that one just has an opinion on can it? It does have initial bite or not. It does squeal or not. It does stop better when hot or not.

Can this be attributed to other factors like the age of the brake fluid or type, the bed-in process that was used, the brake lines (OEM) or stainless, the rotor type or condition. I know the OP maintains that all other factors were ruled out, but wow.

Seems kinda puzzling that there would be such diametrically opposed results.

People tend to not notice less initial bite or stopping power if they rarely use their brakes hard. There are people out there who don't drive their cars hard or spirited and tend to not notice a lot of things spirited drivers (or perhaps sensitive drivers) would. I do think it has has to do with your variables mentioned as well. Especially bedding in the brake pads and the wear on the brake lines over time.

[ek99civic]

Squeal sound could also be your brake pad sensors. I took mine in for a squeal while turning and the dealership said the sound is normal.

[335dFan]

Originally Posted by Mk23

People tend to not notice less initial bite or stopping power if they rarely use their brakes hard. There are people out there who don't drive their cars hard or spirited and tend to not notice a lot of things spirited drivers (or perhaps sensitive drivers) would. I do think it has has to do with your variables mentioned as well. Especially bedding in the brake pads and the wear on the brake lines over time.

I guess we should have an unenforceable rule in the forum that no one can post their opinions without clearly stating all their driving parameters.

Because I do know what you mean. It's one thing if you are just poking around town with an occasional panic stop, and entirely another if you are at the track trying to haul yourself down from a bit north of 100 mph to make a hard right turn after you have already put several laps in. And oh by the way, you have an automatic transmission and you aren't downshifting to slow yourself down.

[kaede]

Have never used the ceramics, but they are longer lasting, less dust, and not as performance inclined as the Hawk HPS which i have tried on many of my family's vehicles for different type or purposes. Had it on a Van (Honda Odyssey), my RX-7 (track), and stage 2 modded NSX (garage queen that I unleash once in a while).

Let me sum up HPS for you. I HATED IT!!

I've heard so much good about it that I was willing to try it on three of my vehicles. But it never felt good. Stopping power, yes, it seems to be more, but initial bite of these things sucked!! The OEM pads on my Van had better initial bite before i swapped the HPS in (had around 60k miles on the OEM). I bed in my brakes correctly too for those who is wondering... and new rotors... and fluid. Stopping power increase is not at all noticable on my Van.

On the RX-7, I do very light track and autocross and while it did gave a bit more stopping power than OEM, again, the intial bite sorta sucked.

NSX, forget it, i had less than 5k miles on those and i switched it out the project mu pads.

So why am i talking about HPS when you're asking for Ceramics? Well... as a performance guy, i can only say that HPS shoud be a slight bit better than the Ceramics, and if the HPS don't impress me, i highly doubt the Ceramics will do better. Known to have even less intial bite and stopping power + feel, i will NOT choose the ceramics for sure. All i can say is that it'll work, but in terms of performance it is a significant downgrade from OEM. If you're used to how the OEM grabs, then you'll probably hate the ceramics too. All i can say is the ceramics/HPS is a very linear pad in terms of braking power delivery!

Originally Posted by 335dFan

Can this be attributed to other factors like the age of the brake fluid or type, the bed-in process that was used, the brake lines (OEM) or stainless, the rotor type or condition.

Highly unlikely...all those factors don't suddenly become an issue out of no where just because you changed the brake pads out. The stock pads are very aggressive on first bite; there's no denying it. When you change them out for a an aftermarket pad that requires more progressive pedal effort, you're going to notice a difference and it's going to be an apparent change from what you've been used to. Whether you're beating on it every day or simply driving it to the grocery store...there's just no way around it.

Since brake pads are relatively inexpensive, it's not the end of the world if you buy a set that you don't like. Just try something new until you find a set you feel comfortable with and be done with it.

[Mk23]

Originally Posted by ek99civic

Squeal sound could also be your brake pad sensors. I took mine in for a squeal while turning and the dealership said the sound is normal.

That is most definitely not normal and is exactly what the dealership first told me. I told them that a $55k BMW is NOT supposed to squeal. If it is why aren't the others I see all the time doing it? Even ones EXACTLY like mine that I've test driven don't. They finally started trying to fix the problem.

Don't let them get away with their cheap lip service, it is definitely not normal.

Originally Posted by 335dFan

I guess we should have an unenforceable rule in the forum that no one can post their opinions without clearly stating all their driving parameters.

Because I do know what you mean. It's one thing if you are just poking around town with an occasional panic stop, and entirely another if you are at the track trying to haul yourself down from a bit north of 100 mph to make a hard right turn after you have already put several laps in. And oh by the way, you have an automatic transmission and you aren't downshifting to slow yourself down.

I hear ya. And yes I do downshift when slowing down. I only use "D" when warming up the car (first 5-10 mins under 3k RPMs until oil temp reaches 200 degrees), after that I shift myself unless I hit hard traffic.


Guess I am going to try the ceramics up front and if I'm happy with them I'll swap out the organics on the back with them as well. If I don't like them I may just have to keep searching. Maybe I can get some aftermarket brake lines or something to improve bite.

[ek99civic]

Originally Posted by Mk23

That is most definitely not normal and is exactly what the dealership first told me. I told them that a $55k BMW is NOT supposed to squeal. If it is why aren't the others I see all the time doing it? Even ones EXACTLY like mine that I've test driven don't. They finally started trying to fix the problem.

Don't let them get away with their cheap lip service, it is definitely not normal.

I know what you mean. I once took my car in for service for a HORRIBLE helicopter blade type noise. Was def not normal but they said that too was a normal noise. I waited until the next time for service and brought it back up. Turned out to be all pulleys needed to be changed and ac compressor was going out.