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      05-02-2013, 07:05 AM   #1
wilbur_the_goose
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Question Are BMW's best days (and cars) in the past?

BMW seems to be a victim of the Euro economy. The new 3-series is back to a 4 cyl, and people are complaining about degradation of quality.

Do you think the E9x or even the E46 was the best BMW will ever produce? Or, are BMW's best days in front of it?
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      05-02-2013, 07:12 AM   #2
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I personally feel we have seen the best and things are getting cheap.
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      05-02-2013, 07:54 AM   #3
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After driving an F30 I feel like maybe the 3 series has lost its quality feel. That being said, if you drove a new M5, I think we'd be singing a different tune.
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      05-02-2013, 07:57 AM   #4
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I think the E46 and E39 are the best mainstream cars BMW has made. Even though the d has more than double the power, I still miss how much fun my little 323i was to drive. It was solid, quiet, and totally reliable too.

I actually regret selling it, and might have to start looking for an E39 M5 to fill the void.
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      05-02-2013, 07:59 AM   #5
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I definitely do not miss the E39 problems.

While bmw models are getting cheaper in quality, low end brands are playing cachup in higher quality.
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      05-02-2013, 10:23 AM   #6
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Tough to say at this point. The current F30, which I will confess I have not driven, is still a bit of an unknown. While it is getting overall positive reviews, there is a uniform feeling of loss in ever review(professional or message board) that I read. Whether this is a blip or a trend will take time to work out.

Personally, when I look at the e9x run I have a hard time believing they could top themselves. When it came time to spend my money, I opted for an e90 335i for a variety of reasons, and I don't regret the decision. One day though, I hope to get an M3 from the current generation. It's so astonishingly good, that if you can afford it, I don't think you could do better.
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      05-02-2013, 10:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilbur_the_goose View Post
Are BMW's best days in the past
NO
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      05-02-2013, 10:32 AM   #8
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i think they're getting cheaper and way too mainstream
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      05-02-2013, 11:23 AM   #9
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I get that BMW is selling a 320i in the US to spread the brand to people who otherwise cannot afford a 328 or 335, but it does cheapen the brand. In Europe, it's different, fuel is very expensive. Here, it's dirt cheap.

To sell a 3 Series in 2013, which has less HP and less torque than a 1995 Nissan V6, is simply a joke.

The cars peaked around 2007. Think about it, base price on a E92 335 was $300 over 40k. You cannot really but a 4 cyl 328 for that little. Yet, xenons and Logic 7 were standard.

This illustrates why leasing is stupid--they tell you when to get a new car, instead of the other way around. If you are the original owner of a E92 335 and got it for 41k, and it's still driving, why would you get rid of it, only step down to a 320i?

If the day comes when people cannot simply walk away from homes they overpaid for, etc., I think sensibility will return. Until then, the next step will happen eventually, 4 cyl. cars that top 60k. Dang, the E92 M3 could be had for 58k when it came out...yet people are willing to buy F30 328's for 52k
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      05-02-2013, 11:33 AM   #10
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I must say after looking at the F30s BMW is taking a hit in quality while at the same time jacking up the price.
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      05-02-2013, 11:39 AM   #11
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^^^
Delta0311 - a prescription for serious business problems, IMHO
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      05-02-2013, 12:00 PM   #12
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for the company, no. I bet their sales will continue to rise, particularly in emerging countries.

From my test drive, the new 3 seems more focused on luxury and fuel economy, rather than sportiness, compared to my e90. Some people might like that, just not my cup of tea. But who knows, maybe I'd happy with a future M3 (if I could afford it).
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      05-02-2013, 12:29 PM   #13
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These posts are always funny to me. I'm coming from an E46 M3, and everyone on the M3forums talks about how the E46 was the best car BMW ever made and their quality has been going down ever since.

On these forums it's that the E9x are the best, and the F30 is lacking in quality

I haven't read the F30 forums, but I'm guessing they hate some new prototype because it looks cheap.

In reality, cars continue to get better and better. Maybe something's aren't improved, or don't fit your needs, but the fit and finish in this car as compared to my E46 is night and day. Now, whether it will last as long is another story...
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      05-02-2013, 12:31 PM   #14
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The F30 is a nice improvement over the E90. People are just nitt picking at this point. 4 cylinder power plants are the future like it or not. In about 10 years 90% of vehicles top of the line engine will be a turbo 4 cylinder engine. It is reality guys, thank god BMW realizes this.

The fact of the matter is that the N2O/26 is superior to the outgoing Straight six it replaced but what would we do if we had nothing to bitch about.
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      05-02-2013, 01:00 PM   #15
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The answer to that question depends on the individual. If you just like the badge to show your friends then you will be happy that now they make a car you can buy. If you liked the sport mentality engineering then you better save up for the exclusive models because the base ones will not check that fun box off. The BMW roundel used to mean you were getting something special. Now only a few cars in the line up are actually special. Its like that car maker who originally set out to make the best drivers cars now is now more interested in selling the most cars. To do this they cater to the mass public. There is nothing special about the mass public. I guess cash really does move everything around...

BMW isn't the only company to follow the dollar, look at Ferrari and Lambo. They used to be ultra exclusive but now they produce so many you need to get a Pagani to be in an exclusive circle of enthusiast owners

This is all with out even mentioning politics and the never ending control they try to impose on the people (car company very included) in a false effort of looking out "for your own good" . Which reminds me its been really chilly in the US this year. I better do my part to help with "global warming" speed up summers arrival and drive my M
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      05-02-2013, 01:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuttgartusa View Post
The F30 is a nice improvement over the E90. People are just nitt picking at this point. 4 cylinder power plants are the future like it or not. In about 10 years 90% of vehicles top of the line engine will be a turbo 4 cylinder engine. It is reality guys, thank god BMW realizes this.

The fact of the matter is that the N2O/26 is superior to the outgoing Straight six it replaced but what would we do if we had nothing to bitch about.
+1. The F30 is an improvement over the E90 in almost every category, maybe just lacking the steering response. However, once at speed or put into sport mode, the steering is very similar to an E90. I test drove a fully loaded F30 328i sport line, performance numbers are increased, the interior is more driver-oriented, and the car feels a lot more spacious. Not to mention that I love the new exterior design too especially the M-sports.
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      05-02-2013, 01:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KwlAznKid View Post
i think they're getting cheaper and way too mainstream
Anybody with $300/mo to spend can lease a BMW. I'm pretty sure it has always been that way. It was never a rare brand.
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      05-02-2013, 02:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupes View Post
These posts are always funny to me. I'm coming from an E46 M3, and everyone on the M3forums talks about how the E46 was the best car BMW ever made and their quality has been going down ever since.

On these forums it's that the E9x are the best, and the F30 is lacking in quality

I haven't read the F30 forums, but I'm guessing they hate some new prototype because it looks cheap.

In reality, cars continue to get better and better. Maybe something's aren't improved, or don't fit your needs, but the fit and finish in this car as compared to my E46 is night and day. Now, whether it will last as long is another story...
Exactly!

it is also funny when I read these "diminished quality/reliability" threads that are followed by "should I take all my mods off?"

BMWs are made to be reliable in stock form people, many of the issues people complain about here are caused by what they chose to do to their car!! It is not BMW's fault when your turbos crap out because you are pushing 1.5 bar LOL!

That being said, the E90 M-Sport model is best and all other BMWs are junk
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      05-02-2013, 04:35 PM   #19
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The M135i and upcoming 2-series give me hope, as does the lightening of the new M3/4, but the loss of NA engines and hydraulic steering is of serious concern.

The Cadillac ATS beat the new 3-series in a recent comparison in handling feel and fun-to-drive, fercryinoutloud!
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      05-02-2013, 04:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuttgartusa View Post
The F30 is a nice improvement over the E90. People are just nitt picking at this point. 4 cylinder power plants are the future like it or not. In about 10 years 90% of vehicles top of the line engine will be a turbo 4 cylinder engine. It is reality guys, thank god BMW realizes this.

The fact of the matter is that the N2O/26 is superior to the outgoing Straight six it replaced but what would we do if we had nothing to bitch about.
Substitution of forged aluminum control arms with stamped steel, that's a nice improvement alright, in the accounting dept.

4 cyl. power plants are the future? They're imbalanced, how can they be the future? 90% of top of the line motors will be 4 cyl? Are you posting from a hash bar in Amsterdam?
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      05-02-2013, 04:49 PM   #21
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The Cadillac ATS beat the new 3-series in a recent comparison in handling feel and fun-to-drive, fercryinoutloud!
LOL nah, don't worry, the BMW 3 has been on the 10 Best list for 20 yrs. Just tape the latest C&D issue to the dash as you drive your F30 and keep laughing at American cars...
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      05-02-2013, 04:52 PM   #22
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