E90Post
 


Extreme Power House
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Alignment after Vorshlag Install



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-14-2013, 09:53 AM   #1
Youngbp04
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2010 Space Gray 335i M-Package
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

Alignment after Vorshlag Install

Had my vorshlag camber plates put on along with apex 17x9.5" arc-8 and with 255/40 nitto r compound all the way around with 5mm spacers up front. I have no rubbing so far.

Install seems to have gone mostly smoothly and cost around $580 with alignment (seemed a little high but oh well). Vorshlag sent the wrong perches even though I order the oem perches, they overnights the correct ones for Saturday delivery. I am very happy with their customer service.

My question is, I expected there to be more negative camber adjustment than there was. Up front they told me they could only get to -2.2 on the front left and -1.8 on the front right (L .03 and R .05 toe). I thought they would be able to dial up much more negative camber for the front on m-sport suspension. Also find it odd that it is different by .4 degrees. What do you all think? Also, what about the toe? Is that where you would suggest it? This car will be tracked a lot and DD. I am going to get m3 control arms, should increase my camber by -.75 correct?

The rear is at L -1.8 degrees and R -1.3 degrees. Should these be closer together or is this fine? Toe is at L .09 and R .12

I am by no means a suspension geometry expert.

Thanks!
Youngbp04 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2013, 02:48 PM   #2
Autobahn335i
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Autobahn335i's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Luxembourg

Posts: 1,568
iTrader: (5)

-2.2 sounds right without M3 control arms. I have -3 which is the maximum as the strut opening is the limiting factor and doesn't allow to move the damper top nut further.

The difference you have between right and left is strange though. Rear should also be closer.
__________________
Performance Seats, Exhaust, Splitters, Pedals, Steering Wheel / RB Turbos / M3 CF Roof / Brembo GT BBK 355/345 / Rollcage / Forge FMIC / Quaife LSD / Bilstein PSS10 / M3 Suspension Parts / Powerflex Bushings / Vorshlag Camberplates / RE Toe Links / LeatherZ Gauges / Extended M3 DCT Paddles / ER Sports OC / AR OC / Aux Radiator / AR DPs / Alpina TCU Flash / COBB Pro-Tune
Autobahn335i is offline   Luxembourg
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2013, 03:49 PM   #3
GreekboyD
Colonel
 
Drives: 2009 BMW 335d
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

Posts: 2,284
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335d  [4.00]
I find it very odd that they can't dial up equal front camber angles after your Vorshlag camber plates were installed.
GreekboyD is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2013, 04:44 PM   #4
Youngbp04
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2010 Space Gray 335i M-Package
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

I checked and it looks like both the plates are maxed out. Their explanation was that there are variances from the factory. To me that sounds a little odd given that the camber plates remove any factory camber adjustments. That is the purpose of them.

What could be causing this?

Originally they called me telling me they bent a spring compressing it to put it in. Then called me back saying that they hadnt and that it was because vorshlag sent the wrong perch and was making it look like it was bent. They said everything was fine and that it wasnt bent at all, but now that has me wondering.

Not sure what a spring would have to do with camber adj though
Youngbp04 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2013, 05:17 PM   #5
jetbill
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: E90 335 M-Sport
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: tampa

Posts: 373
iTrader: (3)

I can get 2.8 with the same setup. Lowered half inch.
__________________
Check out my stuff for sale!BMW Performance Exhaust M3 Competition Reps -Avante Garde M35 Rims with Michelin Pilot Super Sport Tires, E9X Track Rim & Tire Setup-Toyo R888 & Avante Garde M359,Ohlin's Road & Track & KW coilovers, M3 Upper and Lower Control Arms, Vorshlag, H&R, Front Sway bar with bushings, VRSF Intercooler andCatless Downpipes, Cobb, AFE DCI http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...8#post14547968
jetbill is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2013, 06:00 PM   #6
Youngbp04
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2010 Space Gray 335i M-Package
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetbill
I can get 2.8 with the same setup. Lowered half inch.
Lowered on what?
Youngbp04 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2013, 06:39 PM   #7
MrTerryliu
Brigadier General
 
MrTerryliu's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: bay area

Posts: 3,216
iTrader: (6)

Send a message via AIM to MrTerryliu
how low is the car? im trying to do the same with similar spec wheels
MrTerryliu is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2013, 06:47 PM   #8
335iSSA
Captain
 
Drives: 07' E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Frederick, MD

Posts: 603
iTrader: (10)

Did they put the plates on the correct side? To my recollection there is a right and a left plate and if on the wrong side you won't be able to get max camber.
335iSSA is offline   Poland
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2013, 07:11 PM   #9
cleex024
Major
 
Drives: 2008 BMW 335i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia Beach

Posts: 1,403
iTrader: (2)

maybe check to see if the alignment shop had their machine calibrated recently...their machine could be off
__________________
Space Gray l 6MT l OSG LSD w/ VAC Race Diff Cover l Cobb e30 l Morr vs8.2 l UUC SSK w/ DSSR l VSRF Catless Dps l RPI Intercooler l CDV Removed l HID AE 8000k l ETS Catback l AST 5200 w/ Vorshlag Camber Plates l ER Dual Oil Coolers l Rear Camber and Toe Arms l K&N Drop In l Solid Tranny/Diff/Subframe Bushings l Bridgestone RE-11
cleex024 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2013, 07:38 PM   #10
jetbill
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: E90 335 M-Sport
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: tampa

Posts: 373
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngbp04
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetbill
I can get 2.8 with the same setup. Lowered half inch.
Lowered on what?
Ohlins R&T. With the M3 front suspension components I just installed I can now get 3.5 degrees (I mostly just AutoX)
__________________
Check out my stuff for sale!BMW Performance Exhaust M3 Competition Reps -Avante Garde M35 Rims with Michelin Pilot Super Sport Tires, E9X Track Rim & Tire Setup-Toyo R888 & Avante Garde M359,Ohlin's Road & Track & KW coilovers, M3 Upper and Lower Control Arms, Vorshlag, H&R, Front Sway bar with bushings, VRSF Intercooler andCatless Downpipes, Cobb, AFE DCI http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...8#post14547968
jetbill is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2013, 12:09 PM   #11
Youngbp04
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2010 Space Gray 335i M-Package
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iSSA View Post
Did they put the plates on the correct side? To my recollection there is a right and a left plate and if on the wrong side you won't be able to get max camber.
This could be a possibility. Is there a way I can tell what side is the left side vs right side, while it is installed on the car?

Thanks again guys for all your help!

BPY
Youngbp04 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2013, 12:37 PM   #12
swifty
Major
 
Drives: FO M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: canada

Posts: 1,203
iTrader: (5)

I went through similar issues with my vorshlag and tcklines cuz shops said this is the best they could do but I couldn't understand why there was a massive difference between one side and the other. Some said I must've hit some thing etc.

Finally went to a proper race shop and got the setup right. May take a little more than an hour or two to get it right the first time when you are working with both plates and coils.

Good luck.
swifty is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2013, 12:38 PM   #13
neoduffer
Fast In, Slow Out
 
Drives: 06 E90
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SoCal, SGV

Posts: 511
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
Did you get a Thrust value to go with your Toe settings? This will indicate if the combined left and right toe settings are pointing straight or inline with the vehicle centerline.

I think the camber left and right should be closer. On the order of 0.2, if possible. I'd prefer dead on if it were my car.
__________________
: Ken
neoduffer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2013, 01:08 PM   #14
Youngbp04
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2010 Space Gray 335i M-Package
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by neoduffer View Post
Did you get a Thrust value to go with your Toe settings? This will indicate if the combined left and right toe settings are pointing straight or inline with the vehicle centerline.

I think the camber left and right should be closer. On the order of 0.2, if possible. I'd prefer dead on if it were my car.
My thrust angle is -.01 degrees and steer ahead is -.01 degrees.

It took 5 hours to get the install done $550 or so plus alignment. I am thinking i will have to take it back and get it redone. I am getting control arms and coils so probably wait until then unless it is something that needs to be addressed asap.

Any way to tell if they are installed on the proper side. ie left plate is on the left
Youngbp04 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2013, 05:53 PM   #15
modernbeat
Private
 
modernbeat's Avatar
 
Drives: Caged
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 65
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngbp04 View Post
...Any way to tell if they are installed on the proper side. ie left plate is on the left
I can't find a good photo of it in our gallery, but the E36/E90 plates are engraved with the Vorshlag logo, the application (E36/E90), and the position. The position should look like "LF" and arrow and "F". The "LF" means Left Front from the driver's perspective and the "arrow F" points toward the front of the car.

I'll get a phone pic and link it.
__________________
Jason McDaniel at Vorshlag
modernbeat is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2013, 05:57 PM   #16
modernbeat
Private
 
modernbeat's Avatar
 
Drives: Caged
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 65
iTrader: (0)

Pic of the markings on an E36/E90 camber plate. These should be visible through the top of the strut tower.

__________________
Jason McDaniel at Vorshlag
modernbeat is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2013, 06:35 PM   #17
Chrisred
Captain
 
Chrisred's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 335xi coupe
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Montreal, Canada

Posts: 738
iTrader: (0)

Have -2.5 camber up front matched on both sides. Drop is about 3/4" from fender to top of tire. I believe it's 5" from ground to front side rocker panel. It's an xi btw. On TC Klines. But my toe is zero as xi needs less toe. Either way if u gonna lap just loosen strut bolts and jack both sides up and add more camber.
__________________
JB4 cp-e IC AMS exhaust BMS DCI AR DP's METH
19" VMR VB3 Stoptech BBK TC KLINE VORSHLAG
Chrisred is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2013, 07:06 PM   #18
justpete
Private First Class
 
Drives: 328i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: DFW

Posts: 136
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by modernbeat View Post
Pic of the markings on an E36/E90 camber plate. These should be visible through the top of the strut tower.

Is the front of the car at the bottom of the picture?
__________________
2011 E90 328i ZSP 6MT PI+3IM+AA, SS+CI528+ThermoTec+PE, AKG eng/UUC trans mnts, CM 850, HPA clutch pedal, CAE shifter, AKG DSSR, PG 3.73 LSD, HVT 3-way, TMS Delrin diff/RS, BW inner spring arm, LFCA, & trailing arm spherical bearings, M3 arms/links, RE toe arms, Vorshlag CPs, HPA M3 brace, 18x8.5 ARC-8, R1R 255/35sq, 135i calipers+ST kit, ST Sport rotors, ST lines/RT700, F30 shields, Safecraft, Schroth, OMP HTE-R, RT DL1Mk3/CAN/DASH3
justpete is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2013, 07:26 PM   #19
335iSSA
Captain
 
Drives: 07' E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Frederick, MD

Posts: 603
iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Is the front of the car at the bottom of the picture?
Yes, the arrow points toward the front of the car.
335iSSA is offline   Poland
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2013, 07:32 PM   #20
justpete
Private First Class
 
Drives: 328i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: DFW

Posts: 136
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iSSA View Post
Yes, the arrow points toward the front of the car.
Sorry, now I'm confused. If the arrow points at the front of the car then it'd be at the top of the picture instead of the bottom.

Reason I ask is the arrow "points" toward the back of the car in mine and the strut is up against the front of the groove for caster adjustment. That is, the caster can be adjusted more positive than it is now.

The alignment numbers are all right though both for street and track but I swear they're in backwards....
__________________
2011 E90 328i ZSP 6MT PI+3IM+AA, SS+CI528+ThermoTec+PE, AKG eng/UUC trans mnts, CM 850, HPA clutch pedal, CAE shifter, AKG DSSR, PG 3.73 LSD, HVT 3-way, TMS Delrin diff/RS, BW inner spring arm, LFCA, & trailing arm spherical bearings, M3 arms/links, RE toe arms, Vorshlag CPs, HPA M3 brace, 18x8.5 ARC-8, R1R 255/35sq, 135i calipers+ST kit, ST Sport rotors, ST lines/RT700, F30 shields, Safecraft, Schroth, OMP HTE-R, RT DL1Mk3/CAN/DASH3
justpete is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2013, 07:45 PM   #21
335iSSA
Captain
 
Drives: 07' E92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Frederick, MD

Posts: 603
iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Sorry, now I'm confused. If the arrow points at the front of the car then it'd be at the top of the picture instead of the bottom.

Reason I ask is the arrow "points" toward the back of the car in mine and the strut is up against the front of the groove for caster adjustment. That is, the caster can be adjusted more positive than it is now.

The alignment numbers are all right though both for street and track but I swear they're in backwards....
I don't see how you can say the above in bold. The picture is too close to make that statement.

Jason works at Vorshlag so I'd take his word for it. I have Vorshlag plates on my Mustang and they are marked the same way and I can tell you the markings are toward the front of the car with the arrow pointing toward the front.

I also put them on the wrong side b/c I put them on from the perspective of looking at the driver, which is why I know that when you put them on the wrong side you don't get the camber you are looking for as they maxed out about the middle of the strut tower opening.

As to your situation I don't see how you could have them in with the arrow facing backwards, given the three point mounting they would have to point away from the centerline of the car and the adjustment would be not perpendicular to the centerline of the car.
335iSSA is offline   Poland
0
Reply With Quote
      05-15-2013, 07:50 PM   #22
GreekboyD
Colonel
 
Drives: 2009 BMW 335d
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

Posts: 2,284
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335d  [4.00]
Damn so that's Jason? He's helping me with my current dilemma of Vorshlag plates not fitting my KW V3s properly.

Great help from him on the matter.
GreekboyD is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:49 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST