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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Upgrade 328I brakes to 335 specs?



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      11-26-2012, 12:41 PM   #23
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If you do the shoe mod it should work like stock, you would only add the additional "pad" layer to the stock shoe. No other parts necessary. Unless you want to use the e-brake for drifting on the interstate it should work fine for keeping the car stopped while parked. Here's the post on the mod.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=604481
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      11-26-2012, 01:26 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by kiwi29 View Post
I need my ebrake even if the design is retarded for being a drum style system.
I'm curious as to why people think the drum style emergency brake is retarded when it's actually the better way to make an emergency brake.
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      05-16-2013, 08:59 PM   #25
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Would it be fine just to upgrade the front brakes only from 328 to 335i?
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      05-17-2013, 12:31 PM   #26
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BBK's (i.e. Stoptech) do not include bigger master cylinders for a reason.
Huh. Must have missed this little nugget.

StopTECH BBKs have SMALLER Piston area than OEM piston surface areas. Go ahead. Look them up.

Piston area is calculated for each side that does the pushin', StopTECH front caliper kits are designed so that the two (if you're going with the 4 piston kit) pistons pushing on each pad totals up to a slightly smaller surface area than your OEM piston.

In fact, ANY BBK that sells you on a bigger overall piston area than stock should be SHOT (or at least not to be trusted). I once installed a 4 piston kit on someone's car. The overall piston sizes were LARGER in total than the OEM piston size. We "chased" a soft pedal for months and months and multiple bleed and flush of the system, until I consulted an expert on all things brakes and he immediately identified the soft, mushy pedal as a result of us installing larger than OEM piston surface area.

Sure enough, getting the right sized pistons (smaller) immediately firmed up the pedal to OEM and/or better feel.
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      07-09-2013, 11:02 PM   #27
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^----- is the smaller piston surface area in order to create more pressure than stock?
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      07-10-2013, 01:36 AM   #28
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^----- is the smaller piston surface area in order to create more pressure than stock?
No. Most of the time it's done to maintain brake bias. A typical front only kit with larger diameter rotors will generate significantly more brake torque due to moving the leverage out further, thus shifting brake bias unnecessarily forward to the front axle. In order to alleviate the problem, a well engineered front only kit SHOULD include slightly smaller piston area to restore proper brake bias.

A side benefit to said smaller piston area is increased stiffness of the pedal. But it doesn't necessarily generate more brake pressure because the increased pressure is spread out over a larger pad/friction surface (most fixed calipers use a larger brake pad surface area).
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      07-10-2013, 08:09 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Huh. Must have missed this little nugget.

StopTECH BBKs have SMALLER Piston area than OEM piston surface areas. Go ahead. Look them up.

Piston area is calculated for each side that does the pushin', StopTECH front caliper kits are designed so that the two (if you're going with the 4 piston kit) pistons pushing on each pad totals up to a slightly smaller surface area than your OEM piston.

In fact, ANY BBK that sells you on a bigger overall piston area than stock should be SHOT (or at least not to be trusted). I once installed a 4 piston kit on someone's car. The overall piston sizes were LARGER in total than the OEM piston size. We "chased" a soft pedal for months and months and multiple bleed and flush of the system, until I consulted an expert on all things brakes and he immediately identified the soft, mushy pedal as a result of us installing larger than OEM piston surface area.

Sure enough, getting the right sized pistons (smaller) immediately firmed up the pedal to OEM and/or better feel.
Agreed. Still, in our case the 328 and 335 master cylinders are the same part number, meaning that we shouldn't get a soft peal feel after retrofitting 335 brakes into a 328. Neither should we get a soft pedal feel after retrofitting BMW performance brakes or BBK's specifically designed for the 328, as these kits are designed to work with the stock master cylinder specs.
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      07-10-2013, 12:50 PM   #30
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I'm curious as to why people think the drum style emergency brake is retarded when it's actually the better way to make an emergency brake.
it may be a better way to make them, but it's definitely not a better way when it comes to working on them. If you've ever changed the shoes on a drum brake, you'll see what I mean
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      07-10-2013, 10:46 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
No. Most of the time it's done to maintain brake bias. A typical front only kit with larger diameter rotors will generate significantly more brake torque due to moving the leverage out further, thus shifting brake bias unnecessarily forward to the front axle. In order to alleviate the problem, a well engineered front only kit SHOULD include slightly smaller piston area to restore proper brake bias.

A side benefit to said smaller piston area is increased stiffness of the pedal. But it doesn't necessarily generate more brake pressure because the increased pressure is spread out over a larger pad/friction surface (most fixed calipers use a larger brake pad surface area).
Thanks for the input.
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      07-11-2013, 04:54 AM   #32
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Anyone know how much more 335i brakes weigh over 328i brakes. Calipers, pads and rotors included.
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      07-12-2013, 01:11 PM   #33
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I track my 328i. Preempting any comments, yes I know I should be driving an M3... It's only money - right?

Anyway, I can tell you from personal experience that the E90 sedan uses rear pads faster than the front when both are the same compound! I normally run with the DSC off so that is not leading to excessive rear wear. The implication is the 328i has a rear brake bias. And that is not optimal for track driving where to brake hard you want the front brakes doing more of the work where the weight of the car is.

So, for me, I am contemplating changing out just the front calipers and parts to the 335i dual piston setup to see if I can shift the bias a bit more forward. Especially if I can find a 335i owner that wants to sell the parts after upgrading to a BBK. I see that the whole 3 series has the same master cylinder and the same front suspension knuckles which almost ensures that the pedal feel would be proper and that the 335i caliper carriers would bolt on with no problems.
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      07-12-2013, 06:13 PM   #34
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Quote:
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I track my 328i. Preempting any comments, yes I know I should be driving an M3... It's only money - right?

Anyway, I can tell you from personal experience that the E90 sedan uses rear pads faster than the front when both are the same compound! I normally run with the DSC off so that is not leading to excessive rear wear. The implication is the 328i has a rear brake bias. And that is not optimal for track driving where to brake hard you want the front brakes doing more of the work where the weight of the car is.

So, for me, I am contemplating changing out just the front calipers and parts to the 335i dual piston setup to see if I can shift the bias a bit more forward. Especially if I can find a 335i owner that wants to sell the parts after upgrading to a BBK. I see that the whole 3 series has the same master cylinder and the same front suspension knuckles which almost ensures that the pedal feel would be proper and that the 335i caliper carriers would bolt on with no problems.
There's no shame in tracking a 328. Its a great car to drive on street or track. Have you considered buying the BMW performance brakes instead of getting ones from a 335?
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      07-12-2013, 08:57 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkee View Post
I track my 328i. Preempting any comments, yes I know I should be driving an M3... It's only money - right?

Anyway, I can tell you from personal experience that the E90 sedan uses rear pads faster than the front when both are the same compound! I normally run with the DSC off so that is not leading to excessive rear wear. The implication is the 328i has a rear brake bias. And that is not optimal for track driving where to brake hard you want the front brakes doing more of the work where the weight of the car is.

So, for me, I am contemplating changing out just the front calipers and parts to the 335i dual piston setup to see if I can shift the bias a bit more forward. Especially if I can find a 335i owner that wants to sell the parts after upgrading to a BBK. I see that the whole 3 series has the same master cylinder and the same front suspension knuckles which almost ensures that the pedal feel would be proper and that the 335i caliper carriers would bolt on with no problems.
check out member ianlu or the like in the suspensions sale sub forum. He is selling all four calipers and carriers for $300. He is also selling the rotors and brakes for the front about half used with them for that price.

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There's no shame in tracking a 328. Its a great car to drive on street or track. Have you considered buying the BMW performance brakes instead of getting ones from a 335?
This is my plan exactly. You can also use the 135i brakes. They are the same brembo kit from the performance line. Just note that the phelonic plaster buffer on the pistons breaks apart with track usage. A piston upgrade is available for $500 for the fronts and $250 or so in the back.
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      07-12-2013, 10:57 PM   #36
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This is my plan exactly. You can also use the 135i brakes. They are the same brembo kit from the performance line. Just note that the phelonic plaster buffer on the pistons breaks apart with track usage. A piston upgrade is available for $500 for the fronts and $250 or so in the back.[/quote]

I think neither the Performance nor the 135 rear brakes fit a 328 though, only the front ones. The rears only fit on sport wagons or 330's.
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      07-13-2013, 01:02 AM   #37
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I think neither the Performance nor the 135 rear brakes fit a 328 though, only the front ones. The rears only fit on sport wagons or 330's.
They fit the 328xi as they have the bigger drum as well. It's not hard to mod the brake shoe to fit. Just cut the 328i and 335i shoes and tack weld them together. bada bing bada boom. Member avocet did it.
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      07-13-2013, 08:48 AM   #38
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They fit the 328xi as they have the bigger drum as well. It's not hard to mod the brake shoe to fit. Just cut the 328i and 335i shoes and tack weld them together. bada bing bada boom. Member avocet did it.
Yeah but that's when you want to retrofit the 335's into the 328 right? I thought there's something that doesn't align between the caliper and disc when retrofitting the rear performance brakes. I'll have to double check. It's in this thread I think.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=576647&page=2
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      07-13-2013, 12:46 PM   #39
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Yeah but that's when you want to retrofit the 335's into the 328 right? I thought there's something that doesn't align between the caliper and disc when retrofitting the rear performance brakes. I'll have to double check. It's in this thread I think.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=576647&page=2
I went through the thread. It seems unclear about the rears. I thought it was a drum issue like the 335i. I guess if we can find a 335i that retrofitted it would be a better point of reference.
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      07-13-2013, 12:56 PM   #40
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I went through the thread. It seems unclear about the rears. I thought it was a drum issue like the 335i. I guess if we can find a 335i that retrofitted it would be a better point of reference.
I found the thread, you were right, the 135 rears need either a e-brake mod or a custom rotor.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=339956&page=2
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      07-13-2013, 01:24 PM   #41
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I found the thread, you were right, the 135 rears need either a e-brake mod or a custom rotor.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=339956&page=2
I think this sums it up.
  • 135i rear caliper will fit
  • 135i rear rotor will not fit
  • 135i brake pads will not fit as they were intended
  • 3 series performance brake rotor can be purchased and possibly used with no mods other than drum
  • brake drum modification needed

Last edited by mapleridge; 07-13-2013 at 08:16 PM.
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      07-19-2013, 12:48 PM   #42
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There's no shame in tracking a 328. Its a great car to drive on street or track. Have you considered buying the BMW performance brakes instead of getting ones from a 335?
The only problem is watching all the other cars totally blow by my 328i in the straight. The car handles really well in the corners, especially with its new Eibach Sportline Plus Kit suspension and Direzza ZII tires.

And, yes, I am looking at that kit. It is being sold at a pretty good price on GetBMWParts. It looks like a more expensive proposition than trying a 335i brake upgrade, but probably would be a better result in the end for what I want to accomplish. Also looks like it would make front pad swaps a lot easier at the track.

I also spent a lot of time looking at the BMW Performance rear brakes wondering why they would not fit. They work on a 128i, and that car shares the same knuckle and caliper bracket part #'s as mine. It must be the hub or emergency brake setup as you and MapleRidge are discussing. The 128i hub has a different part #. Thanks for the link to the other thread.

I really need to do something because the stock brakes are really marginal. One project that is upcoming is building some front brake ducts to keep things cooler. But that is off topic here...
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      07-19-2013, 02:29 PM   #43
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The only problem is watching all the other cars totally blow by my 328i in the straight.
Here in the Pacific Region we have an instructor who drives a 2002Ti with the original Ti engine that has about 500,000 HARD driven miles on it (the engine was rebuilt about 100,000 miles ago) that would blow the doors off of M5s and M3s on the track.

I've only recently worked up enough speed to pass him occasionally in my MZ4 Coupe.

There's no shame in tracking a 328i. Unless the horsepower difference is GINORMOUS and it's a notorious HP track like Auto Club Speedway or Willow Springs, the 328i can probably hang with quite a few of the big boys.

The most satisfying pass I ever earned in my entire driving career was done in my Z4 3.0i at Buttonwillow where a 996 Turbo S begrudgingly let me by going into the braking zone at Star Mazda, after being hounded for 2 laps with my $40,000 roadster stuck to his $120,000 coupe's bumper.
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      07-19-2013, 04:03 PM   #44
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Hack - I am not ashamed - it is a great if not a bit underpowered car.

For me the last time was at Watkins Glen (IMO a fabulous course), and yes that is a notorious HP track. 2 of the 3 big straights are uphill. Coming up out of the toe you wish you had 1000HP. There were at least 10 cars out there with me that had at least a third more HP than me (e.g. a Porsche GT3 RSR, two Z4Ms - like yours I guess, several E9x M3s, E46 M3s, ...). And there were a couple of 2002's too, they go around corners like they are on rails. But, we are drifting way off topic.

The next way for me to go faster is to be able to brake better and that is why I am on this thread exploring options.
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