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      05-20-2013, 11:42 AM   #1
scotlandman
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Methanol Injection pro's and con's

Hi Guys

I would just like to ask everyone. When is the right time too consider having a Methanol Injection Kit installed ?

And what are the Real World benefits for everyday Driving

What are the running cost's involved ?
Does it pose any problems / dangers to your Engine ?
Can it be a problem when you have to get the car serviced at BMW ?

I am driving a 2006 BMW 335i coupé N54B30a with ECU 366 Bhp remap , Quaife LSD , Sports Catalysts , Birds B3 Suspension , Birds Anti Roll Bars , Alcon Front Brakes.

Been thinking about getting the Birds upgrade Turbo s and 430 bhp Ecu remap and want to know if I should bother looking at getting the Methanol Injection Kit and who is the best Company / supplier to deal with in the UK for fitting it.

Thanks Guys

Ross
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      05-20-2013, 11:56 AM   #2
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When is the right time?

Before you consider upgrading the turbos.

If you have a procede tuning device fitted by birds then you should get the Vishnu Meth kit to use in conjunction with it. If not you'll need a piggyback device to control the flow.

Pro's:
Chemical intercooler
Boosts octane
Allows you to run more boost safely (and reduces the likelyhoold of knock events)
Steam cleans the engine (including intake valves)
Meth is very cheap (I bought 100 litres for £30 - will last years!)

Cons:
Fire hazard (get a tank in the boot and decent lines/fittings)
Insurance impact
thats about it..

Best supplier - DIY (so you can problem solve the problems) alternatively Devils Own UK distributor.
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      05-20-2013, 12:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil200tdi View Post
When is the right time?

Before you consider upgrading the turbos.

If you have a procede tuning device fitted by birds then you should get the Vishnu Meth kit to use in conjunction with it. If not you'll need a piggyback device to control the flow.

Pro's:
Chemical intercooler
Boosts octane
Allows you to run more boost safely (and reduces the likelyhoold of knock events)
Steam cleans the engine (including intake valves)
Meth is very cheap (I bought 100 litres for £30 - will last years!)

Cons:
Fire hazard (get a tank in the boot and decent lines/fittings)
Insurance impact
thats about it..

Best supplier - DIY (so you can problem solve the problems) alternatively Devils Own UK distributor.
Hi Phil

Thanks for the quick reply. I had looked on the Vishnu website as I believe you are correct and it is most likely a procede tuning device.

I take it the Vishnu kit will be sent from the USA ?

I can definitely see a lot of good positive results from running the Meth/water kit and there are just a couple of more questions Phil.

Did you buy any more after market parts / components too help the kit run smoother or indeed compliment the performance.

And where exactly do you source you're Meth/water mix when running low ( devils own ? )

I'm guessing it's good for at least a few hundred miles ?

Thanks again Phil your help is always appreciated mate.

Ross
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      05-20-2013, 02:05 PM   #4
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Vishnu kit for the meth pump, integration equipment and failsafe (I use jb4 for this so not familiar with Vishnu kit). Jeff at topgearsolutions may be a good bet for advice..

Devils own uk for the tank, nozzles, SS lines and connectors.

I got lucky and bought 99% methanol from a farmer relatively locally via eBay. He had the remainder of a 1000l carton to get rid of! I bought from bonnymans before this (£50 per 20l iirc)..

With JB4 Meth only flows when you are on a meth map (map 3), over 2,500rpm and WOT. Hence if you drive sensibly most of the time 5litres of mixture would last a month easily enough.

I run a 50:50 mix of meth to water (by weight) for safety. 80:20 would be better for max power but I still have a WW kit.

Factor in clutch slip if you have a Manual. Even with stock turbos I made 512lb/ft of torque on the dyno (With a boost leak!)! My new clutch (spec stg 2+) is inbound.

Ancillaries you'll need at a minimum:

Chargepipe with meth bungs (avoid BMS cp). If considering new turbos go for a cp with two meth bungs.

Forge diverter valves? To go with the above - a dump valve can be dangerous with meth. Stock DV's are liable to leak at high boost pressure but you can do without these until the stock ones leak..
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      05-20-2013, 03:36 PM   #5
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This place seems to sell meth fairly cheap: http://www.trinity-research.co.uk/in...th=21_23_31_46
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      05-20-2013, 03:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil200tdi View Post
Vishnu kit for the meth pump, integration equipment and failsafe (I use jb4 for this so not familiar with Vishnu kit). Jeff at topgearsolutions may be a good bet for advice..

Devils own uk for the tank, nozzles, SS lines and connectors.

I got lucky and bought 99% methanol from a farmer relatively locally via eBay. He had the remainder of a 1000l carton to get rid of! I bought from bonnymans before this (£50 per 20l iirc)..

With JB4 Meth only flows when you are on a meth map (map 3), over 2,500rpm and WOT. Hence if you drive sensibly most of the time 5litres of mixture would last a month easily enough.

I run a 50:50 mix of meth to water (by weight) for safety. 80:20 would be better for max power but I still have a WW kit.

Factor in clutch slip if you have a Manual. Even with stock turbos I made 512lb/ft of torque on the dyno (With a boost leak!)! My new clutch (spec stg 2+) is inbound.

Ancillaries you'll need at a minimum:

Chargepipe with meth bungs (avoid BMS cp). If considering new turbos go for a cp with two meth bungs.

Forge diverter valves? To go with the above - a dump valve can be dangerous with meth. Stock DV's are liable to leak at high boost pressure but you can do without these until the stock ones leak..
Hi Phil

Thanks a lot that is some fantastic information very much appreciated mate.

I think nearer the time I will contact both Jeff at topgearsolutions and the guys at Devilsown uk for the advice they can give.

The ancillaries I will source separately with a view to whom ever does the installation fitting them along with cheers Phil.

I'm driving an automatic with paddle shift sports manual option so hopefully there won't be any issues regarding the clutch.

You've got some seriously impressive figures on dyno and all that with a boost leak phenomenal.

Thanks for all of your advice I'll keep you updated if I go ahead with the modifications.

Regards

Ross
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      05-20-2013, 04:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djgandy View Post
This place seems to sell meth fairly cheap: http://www.trinity-research.co.uk/in...th=21_23_31_46
Nice one Djgandy looks good I've saved the web address cheers mate

Ross
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      05-20-2013, 04:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotlandman View Post
Hi Guys

I would just like to ask everyone. When is the right time too consider having a Methanol Injection Kit installed ?

And what are the Real World benefits for everyday Driving

What are the running cost's involved ?
Does it pose any problems / dangers to your Engine ?
Can it be a problem when you have to get the car serviced at BMW ?

I am driving a 2006 BMW 335i coupé N54B30a with ECU 366 Bhp remap , Quaife LSD , Sports Catalysts , Birds B3 Suspension , Birds Anti Roll Bars , Alcon Front Brakes.

Been thinking about getting the Birds upgrade Turbo s and 430 bhp Ecu remap and want to know if I should bother looking at getting the Methanol Injection Kit and who is the best Company / supplier to deal with in the UK for fitting it.

Thanks Guys

Ross
I buy my meth for about $40 for a five gallon container (not sure how that translated into your currency). If I mix 50:50 with distilled water this is 10 gallons...and it can last about a month, maybe longer (depending how heavy your foot is) as my meth only flows when im giving about 80% throttle....

if you get a trunk mount then the odds of a fire under the hood is alot less likely. But if your using your Windshield washer reservoir for the meth, then you will have to keep a closer eye on it to ensure you never have any leaks.

My biggest inconvenience is going to the shop that is across town to buy my meth and making my own water/meth mixes... but to me its worth is. Plus meth helps keep things cooler and cleaner inside the engine and fights carbon build up i believe.

And if you take your car into BMW for regular service/repairs they will work on your car but if anything major breaks don't look for them to honor any warranty that you may have. im pritty sure this will void your warranty and you would have to pay out of pocket for repairs...
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      05-21-2013, 02:20 AM   #9
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I didn't think it was really worth it in the UK where we have real dino juice..? The yanks do it because they have piss-water 91ron. Or am I getting the wrong end of the pokey stick...??

WM
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      05-21-2013, 02:31 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by windymissile View Post
I didn't think it was really worth it in the UK where we have real dino juice..? The yanks do it because they have piss-water 91ron. Or am I getting the wrong end of the pokey stick...??

WM
Yup you are getting it very wrong

American fuel has different ratings to the stuff we buy, they have 91 as you state but also 93. This isnt RON it is octane which is the same as the stuff we get ripped off for lol.

91 is equivalent to our 95
93 is equivalent to our 97
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      05-21-2013, 03:24 AM   #11
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Im looking out for a 2nd hand aquamist hfs-4 at the minute as I have a Cobb accessport rather than a JB4 or Procede - keep an eye out for me guys!
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      05-21-2013, 04:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky68 View Post
Yup you are getting it very wrong

American fuel has different ratings to the stuff we buy, they have 91 as you state but also 93. This isnt RON it is octane which is the same as the stuff we get ripped off for lol.

91 is equivalent to our 95
93 is equivalent to our 97
Cheers Sparky.
Everydays a school day!

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      05-21-2013, 08:29 AM   #13
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Even running race fuel, meth has a big impact on performance due to its ability to cool intake air temps. Cooler air = more safe and reliable power.

The more boost you want the more heat the turbos will generate. It's quite startling how well meth zaps the heat - better than any fmic on the market!!
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      05-21-2013, 02:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigelo
Im looking out for a 2nd hand aquamist hfs-4 at the minute as I have a Cobb accessport rather than a JB4 or Procede - keep an eye out for me guys!
Pricey bit of kit there. Are you gonna get Pro Tuning Freaks to do you a meth map!!
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      05-21-2013, 03:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil200tdi View Post
Pricey bit of kit there. Are you gonna get Pro Tuning Freaks to do you a meth map!!

Yep, thats what Im thinking... wish Aquamist would do another group buy - at 20+ orders they were only looking around £450!
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      05-21-2013, 04:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil200tdi View Post
Pricey bit of kit there. Are you gonna get Pro Tuning Freaks to do you a meth map!!
I'm looking to follow this route in the not to distant future......
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      05-21-2013, 04:05 PM   #17
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I'm looking to follow this route in the not to distant future......
Hey Idnan Hows the car?

Can you believe Im still at the M3 diff project! Think my driveshaft cv is dry or busted or something, its coming out tomorrow for a tinker!
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      05-21-2013, 04:30 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Nigelo View Post
Hey Idnan Hows the car?

Can you believe Im still at the M3 diff project! Think my driveshaft cv is dry or busted or something, its coming out tomorrow for a tinker!
Had to pull the gearbox a few times to sort out various fails and need to still do shitloads to get it 100%.

Still getting the knocking noise?
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      05-21-2013, 05:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idnan View Post
Had to pull the gearbox a few times to sort out various fails and need to still do shitloads to get it 100%.

Still getting the knocking noise?

Flip, makes me glad its only a driveshaft Im taking out rather than a gearbag! Still knocking away yep, no louder or quieter despite about 500 mile on it now. And the M3 Diff is in need of the friction modifier as its clutch plates haven't fully broken in yet or are too tight, and its making the common rubbing sound to a lot of M3's.

Quicker we can get sorted then the quicker we can get meth!!
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      05-22-2013, 03:36 AM   #20
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Cheers Sparky.
Everydays a school day!

WM
No worries mate, its only following these threads that I find out stuff i need to know, School day for us all
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      05-28-2013, 03:25 AM   #21
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Had to pull the gearbox a few times to sort out various fails and need to still do shitloads to get it 100%.

Still getting the knocking noise?
Hey mate, had a passenger ride in Phil's car yesterday

Will now look for a meth kit as well although I may have to lose the dump valve?
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      05-28-2013, 04:28 AM   #22
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You should get downpipes before meth..

Thats the biggest restriction at the moment, you could have the DP's swapped as you change the turbo vacuum hoses..!
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