E90Post
 


Extreme Power House
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Juice Box Stg 2 tests 12.9 @ 110.9mph on Racelogic Vbox.



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-15-2007, 01:00 PM   #1
hotrod182
.
 
hotrod182's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 335i, 06 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California

Posts: 3,461
iTrader: (0)

Juice Box Stg 2 tests 12.9 @ 110.9mph on Racelogic Vbox.

This morning I had a chance to test my car with both my Gtech Pro RR and a Racelogic Performance Box (GPS based) at the same time. Amazingly, I reeled off three straight runs at 12.9 on both the Gtech and Vbox. The mph on the Gtech has been known to be somewhat conservative compared to the Vbox, so you can see that is the case here. So at least you know my terminal speeds that I have reported previously aren't optimistic. Also I had a chance to instrument a 335i belonging to a forum member. It is a Proceded V1.47 E92 335i steptronic coupe. On his car the Gtech was almost 1mph too conservative, but the ETs were right on. My quickest times and mph were a tiny bit faster/quicker than the Procede 335i, but so close, there is no real world difference. In fact, we ran 3 roll ons with pretty much identical results. There couldn't be 2 cars that were matched any closer than his Procede 335i E92 vs my JB2 335i E90. He can chime in if he wants. My car consistantly ran 110mph+ in the 1/4 mile,. His car ran from 109-110.5mph. We probably did a total of about ten 1/4 mile runs. FYI..with results from both test instruments, you can probably bet the results are pretty accurate. If you look at Dragtimes.com, you will see that 110mph is great for a 335i. I guess the 60F temps, and ambient conditions were fairly ideal. With 110mph trap speeds, and traction, the car would probably be capable of upper/mid 12's in the 1/4 mile.
Attached Images
    
hotrod182 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 01:26 PM   #2
bnj
Banned
 
Drives: e92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Helsinki

Posts: 1,137
iTrader: (0)

Nice results for both cars! I like the fall and chilly weather
People who thought G-tech to be optimistic were just guessing...
bnj is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 02:15 PM   #3
Ryan(e92)
Captain
 
Drives: SG M6 coupe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Newport Beach

Posts: 704
iTrader: (6)

I ran an 11.9 on a beltronics. Still think these devices are accurate? Run it at an actual track and stop posting numbers using inaccurate devices.
Ryan(e92) is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 02:17 PM   #4
e.n335
Moderator
 
e.n335's Avatar
 
Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Switzerland, ZH

Posts: 4,480
iTrader: (0)

+1
__________________
Not more than 500 chp for my daily driver. Well, ... .
e.n335 is offline   Austria
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 03:13 PM   #5
hotrod182
.
 
hotrod182's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 335i, 06 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California

Posts: 3,461
iTrader: (0)

GPS device posting the same numbers as my Gtech, which has posted the same times as the track? Maybe if you saw a time slip you might not believe its mine? Read up on how accurate the GPS units are. How about my running against the V1.47 Procede car 3 times. How about the fact that I actually drove his car for some of the timed runs? What now? His Procede is defective? Well thats funny, because his 335i is pretty fast in how bad it beat some of the other 335i BMWs around here. Oh, and to answer your question, I think Beltronics are one of the worst units out there. I don't know why you would bother to own one, LOL. And quit being selfish, if everyone else thought the devices posted non-meaningful results, you wouldn't have 1500 people viewing a post with part of the title saying "Timed With Gtech". I'm sure many appreciate the time and effort that one makes in comparing the 2 cars head to head, and after about 10 timed runs. So just don't view the post if you can't say anything positive, or with some logical substantiation.

Last edited by hotrod182; 09-15-2007 at 03:28 PM.
hotrod182 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 04:09 PM   #6
catdog
Banned
 
Drives: Porsche 997S
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Boston, MA

Posts: 260
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
GPS device posting the same numbers as my Gtech, which has posted the same times as the track? Maybe if you saw a time slip you might not believe its mine? Read up on how accurate the GPS units are. How about my running against the V1.47 Procede car 3 times. How about the fact that I actually drove his car for some of the timed runs? What now? His Procede is defective? Well thats funny, because his 335i is pretty fast in how bad it beat some of the other 335i BMWs around here. Oh, and to answer your question, I think Beltronics are one of the worst units out there. I don't know why you would bother to own one, LOL. And quit being selfish, if everyone else thought the devices posted non-meaningful results, you wouldn't have 1500 people viewing a post with part of the title saying "Timed With Gtech". I'm sure many appreciate the time and effort that one makes in comparing the 2 cars head to head, and after about 10 timed runs. So just don't view the post if you can't say anything positive, or with some logical substantiation.
Hotrod, great job, and feel free to mention my results on the 335xi on the east coast with the jbs2 which i compared back to back to my 997S. Frankly, I don't know if this can be documented any more than we have...let haters and deniers say what they will, your comparison to the racelogic further validates the results. Surprised the jbs2 keeps up with the procede v1.47 even though it generates less hp and torque on the dyno...
catdog is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 04:35 PM   #7
2007_E93
Captain
 
Drives: ?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ?

Posts: 604
iTrader: (0)

Hotrod,...nice job and effort to post times. I think people will always question the results of something that is viewed as a "lesser" product like JB2 compared to Procede. However, as more and more people post times either with these devices or on track then they will take another look. I think it's impressive!! Even if you dispute the accuracy of the devices measuring the results you cannot dispute the fact that the cars ran the same (nearly identical) times and speed on the same device. So if someone has a v1.47 they should know pretty much how the JB2 runs. I have no loyalty to either but I like to see these comparisons.
2007_E93 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 06:19 PM   #8
A418t81
Major
 
Drives: F80 M3/997TT
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Birmingham Al

Posts: 1,313
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by catdog View Post
Frankly, I don't know if this can be documented any more than we have...let haters and deniers say what they will, your comparison to the racelogic further validates the results.
Thats how it always works over here. You give them hard data stating the facts with multiple controls, and while most don't know what to make of it, all you'll receive is a "nuh-uh its crap because I heard it was"
__________________
'15 AW/SO F80 M3 6MT: IND cosmetic package, Gloss black grill surrounds, Macht schnell 15mm spacers all around, 3M crystalline
07 997 TT 6MT, Arctic Silver/Sea Blue: AWE exhaust, GIAC flash, H&R, 19" BBS CH-R in widebody fitment
A418t81 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 07:08 PM   #9
E90ice
Banned
 
E90ice's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: May 2006
Location: WA

Posts: 2,004
iTrader: (0)

When are you going to post some 1/4 mile times with the JuiceBOx? This is only your 12th thread on this matter.

Post one next week too.
__________________
E90ice is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 07:13 PM   #10
Driver72
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 335i - to new owners now.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California

Posts: 4,485
iTrader: (0)

Hello guys.
Yes, I drove my e92 Coupe with my v1.47 and VBox 55 miles to meet up with Hotrod to compare the VBox to the GTech PRO RR.
As Hotrod reported, our two cars basically ran the identical times.
We decided to do a couple rolling runs from 30-120 starting in 3rd to see if it was a fluke that we both pretty much got the exact same times on the VBox.
And on the rolling runs we were side by side, neither car pulled on the other.
Our total weights were within 15 pounds of each other (I had a few gallons more gas in my car and was carrying a 20 lbs sand bag to boot, to offset the fact I'm about 5-7 lbs lighter and the coupe is 22 lbs lighter).
My car had only 1650 miles on it and his 5400 miles.

There are a couple things to point out.
First, JB2 advertises 40+ whp gains and 50+ lbs-ft of torque.
In my sedan, the v1.4 PROcede added 47 whp, but 70 rwtq.
I have not dynoed my coupe however to see the gains, but it's clear that at least in Hotrod's car his JB2 was making the advertised 40+ rwhp which is pretty much right where the v1.4 PROcede did for my sedan (again 47 rwhp).

Second, though he could not really feel it, I think the PROcede still has a bit more low end torque (again my sedan showed +70 rwtq, the JB2 advertises 50+ rwtq). This was evident in trying to launch my e92 coupe compared to his sedan.
Though my wheels are a couple pounds less each than his, it was far more difficult to launch without wheelspin (evident in the inconsistent times we both got) in my coupe, whereas he could launch harder and more consistently in his sedan with less wheelspin. We both tried different launching methods in my coupe and the additional wheelspin at launch often ruined getting a good time and drop the ET's by .2-.3 seconds and resulted in 109+ mph traps instead of consistent 110+ times.
Then Hotrod tried one additional time in my coupe.
Interestingly after nearly 8 straight runs in my coupe, with the engine at it's hottest, and the outside weather now 5 degrees warmer than it was when he ran his car, he got a pretty good launch in my car and got the 12.9 @ 110.5 time right where his car was.

Third, before drawing too many conclusions with the JB2 and the PROcede v1.47, it is necessary for Hotrod to run against one or two other JB2 equipped cars.
It is pretty well documented that his car is a bit of a factory freak in the power department.
At German Invasion, his stock car ran within .1 tenth and under 1 mph of what a Turbo Tuner equipped car did, and several tenths and 1+ mph better than any of the other stock cars.
In fact, I think he was within .2 seconds and 2 mph of what the PROceded cars ran that day.
Further, I have not ran my coupe with the PROcede against any other cars.
My sedan was a pretty strong runner and dynoed stock near the top of all the auto 335i's at the LA Dyno day install.
I'm not sure, but I don't think my coupe runs quite as strong either.
It may be down a couple hp compared to my sedan.

In my sedan, with PROcede v1.2 you've all seen the videos of it walking a Turbo Tuned manual Coupe, even though I had like 60 additional pounds in my car too. Supposedly the JB2 and Turbo Tuner make equal power.

Therefore, it's possible, and maybe even probable, that Hotrod's "special" 335i with the JB2 is stronger than most JB2 or Turbo Tuned cars, since it's clearly stronger stock than most stock 335i's. My coupe maybe a few ponies less powerful than my sedan also, I don't know. So it's probable that his strong running car (combined with my coupes possibly being a few ponies less powerful than my sedan nullifies the PROcede's slight power and torque advantage we've seen in dynos.

The two ways to know this for sure is for Hotrod to run 1 or 2 other 335i with the JB2, or for me to run another car or two with the JB2 (soon before my v2.0 shows up) and see.
If either Hotrod, or myself clearly outrun the other 335i's with the JB2, we know that the PROcede v1.47 really does make a bit more power than the JB2, and as we already know in stock form, Hotrod's car is special, and that extra power is showing even with his JB2
This does not take away anything from either tune.
Though it's clearly a great bang for the buck purchase the JB2 clearly gives the 335i more power and possibly equal hp as the PROcede v1.47 (TBD until other JB2 and v1.47 cars run side by side), I still question it's safety from a non-experienced tuner and it's quality of tune. Same goes for the reason I wouldn't use the Turbo Tuner either.
Please, no flames about that, it's the same reason I don't buy many "made in China" products, you get what you pay for and usually sacrifice quality/safety to save a few bucks.

It was good times either way. And as he said, at least with our two particular cars, they could not have been more equal, they were dead nuts side by side.
As I told him after seeing his car run at German Invasion and nearly equalling the Turbo Tuned cars ET's and traps, he has a special "ringer" of a 335i and needs to hold onto it, that's for sure.
Cheers

Last edited by Driver72; 09-15-2007 at 07:47 PM.
Driver72 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 07:27 PM   #11
Driver72
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 335i - to new owners now.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California

Posts: 4,485
iTrader: (0)

BTW guys, I volunteered to drive to his place.
This meeting was more for us to compare the GTech PRO to the Vbox for accuracy reasons. The VBox by Racelogic is a consumer version of the same technology that is used by most of the car mags. Yes, magazines like Car and Driver use a Racelogic GPS based unit similiar to this VBox to record their times.

This wasn't intended to be a JB2 vs PROcede v1.47 comparo.
It just became that when we realized we got basically dead nuts same time on both cars....mine was at the slight disadvantage of running later when it was a bit hotter outside, and having a really hot engine, getting that time after doing 3-4 straight runs, "cooling" off for about 5 minutes, then doing 4 back to back runs and recording the 12.9 @ 110.5 on that last run.
Even before this meet, I said to Hotrod, "I don't think I'll get the best of times with my car, and I also knew his car was an exceptionally strong runner, so it didn't surprise me that even though the JB2 has dynoed 20 hp and 25 tq less in ONE test, that our two cars ran neck in neck.
His car stock ran like it had an extra 20 hp from the factory, basically keeping up (with 1/2 CL in the 1/4 miles) with Turbo Tuned cars.

I also know Hotrod's intent with this post was not to compare the two cars either, but rather, validate that his GTech PRO RR is quite accurate in his car.
Surprisingly so.
What we can't figure out is, why when we put it in my car it consistently read .05-.1 and 1+ mph slower than the VBox???
In his car it was within .05 and .3 mph each and every time.

No need to flame him for being excited that his GTech PRO RR is (at least in his car) extremely accurate.
His car is also extremely consistent in it's runs.
He also noted that he doesn't have the second oil cooler, yet his car runs just as cool, if not cooler than 335i's with the 2nd oil cooler. He never got up to 270-280 degree temps in his sedan like other early build sedans (without the second oil cooler) WILL quite quickly with repeated hard 1/4 mile runs. We don't know why either his particular car runs so cool, but again, his car is definitely blessed.
Driver72 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 07:46 PM   #12
hotrod182
.
 
hotrod182's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 335i, 06 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California

Posts: 3,461
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E90ice View Post
When are you going to post some 1/4 mile times with the JuiceBOx? This is only your 12th thread on this matter.

Post one next week too.
When are you going to post some times of your Procede? Or better yet, come down here and run against me..
hotrod182 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 07:47 PM   #13
Driver72
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 335i - to new owners now.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California

Posts: 4,485
iTrader: (0)

D@mn I wrote book and a half. Sorry just needed to be thorough.
Driver72 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 07:49 PM   #14
sdiver68
Expert Road Racer
 
Drives: 07 335i e90, 09 335i e93
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 1,330
iTrader: (3)

Hey Mods,

When are you going to ban the Vishnu groupies?

Thanks HotRod and Driver72!
sdiver68 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 07:49 PM   #15
Driver72
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 335i - to new owners now.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California

Posts: 4,485
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
When are you going to post some times of your Procede? Or better yet, come down here and run against me..
I think everyone should be scared to run against you and your car Hotrod, it's just fast all around, stock or otherwise.
As I said today, would love to see what your car would do on a PROcede, even the v1.47...bet you'd see mid 111's trap speeds. :rocks:
Driver72 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 07:50 PM   #16
zenmaster
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: '13 AH3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta

Posts: 1,612
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
What we can't figure out is, why when we put it in my car it consistently read .05-.1 and 1+ mph slower than the VBox???
GTech running slower than VBOX is consistent with this test report.
zenmaster is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 07:59 PM   #17
Insider
Captain
 
Insider's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 4,500 feet above sea level

Posts: 710
iTrader: (0)

Wow. That JB sounds like quite a deal for under $400.
__________________
http://www.insiderpicks.com - The world's best stock picks.
Insider is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2007, 08:04 PM   #18
hotrod182
.
 
hotrod182's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 335i, 06 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California

Posts: 3,461
iTrader: (0)

After all the instrumented testing was done, (and we realized how close our cars were in performance), the side by side runs confirmed it. It also highlights one of the biggest issues of roll on (3 honks) type encounters. When cars are running within a couple tenths of each other in the 1/4 mile, a slight fraction of a second delay on a start will skew your results. As we saw today. A slight jump, and you think you are ahead, and then on the next run the other guy gets the jump ,and the tables are turned. Thats why its always more accurate to instrument your cars at the same time when making a comparison. Even getting a few mph (walking speed) jump on a car can make it very difficult for that car to catch you before 120mph, etc.
Also, I find my car runs closer to 240F when you a cruising for a while, on the fwy, etc. When you are at the drag strip, short trips, etc, it tends to stay around 210F, even after several 1/4 mile runs. Its the opposite of what you might expect. Its interesting how the E92 half way point on the temp gauge is 250F, and on my sedan it is 210F. Maybe the previous scale was inaccurate? I think that car makes it most horsepower in a fairly narrow temperature range. Too cold, and I don't believe it makes full boost. Too hot, and it probably retards timing and/or boost. And the other thing that makes my car different possibly is the occasional long cranking I have had for few months now. I'm wondering if the fuel pump is causing some lean AFR which might actually be producing more HP. Not likely, but just wondering how the fuel pump might affect my performance.

Last edited by hotrod182; 09-15-2007 at 11:29 PM.
hotrod182 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2007, 01:35 AM   #19
sambonator
Samtaro!
 
sambonator's Avatar
 
Drives: a car
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Milky Way Galaxy

Posts: 2,504
iTrader: (5)

Nice. I'll have to consider getting a Gtech myself, as there aren't any 1/4 mile tracks nearby for me to do any sort of comparisons.
sambonator is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2007, 02:11 PM   #20
hotrod182
.
 
hotrod182's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 335i, 06 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California

Posts: 3,461
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
BTW guys, I volunteered to drive to his place.
This meeting was more for us to compare the GTech PRO to the Vbox for accuracy reasons. The VBox by Racelogic is a consumer version of the same technology that is used by most of the car mags. Yes, magazines like Car and Driver use a Racelogic GPS based unit similiar to this VBox to record their times.

This wasn't intended to be a JB2 vs PROcede v1.47 comparo.
It just became that when we realized we got basically dead nuts same time on both cars....mine was at the slight disadvantage of running later when it was a bit hotter outside, and having a really hot engine, getting that time after doing 3-4 straight runs, "cooling" off for about 5 minutes, then doing 4 back to back runs and recording the 12.9 @ 110.5 on that last run.
Even before this meet, I said to Hotrod, "I don't think I'll get the best of times with my car, and I also knew his car was an exceptionally strong runner, so it didn't surprise me that even though the JB2 has dynoed 20 hp and 25 tq less in ONE test, that our two cars ran neck in neck.
His car stock ran like it had an extra 20 hp from the factory, basically keeping up (with 1/2 CL in the 1/4 miles) with Turbo Tuned cars.

I also know Hotrod's intent with this post was not to compare the two cars either, but rather, validate that his GTech PRO RR is quite accurate in his car.
Surprisingly so.
What we can't figure out is, why when we put it in my car it consistently read .05-.1 and 1+ mph slower than the VBox???
In his car it was within .05 and .3 mph each and every time.

No need to flame him for being excited that his GTech PRO RR is (at least in his car) extremely accurate.
His car is also extremely consistent in it's runs.
He also noted that he doesn't have the second oil cooler, yet his car runs just as cool, if not cooler than 335i's with the 2nd oil cooler. He never got up to 270-280 degree temps in his sedan like other early build sedans (without the second oil cooler) WILL quite quickly with repeated hard 1/4 mile runs. We don't know why either his particular car runs so cool, but again, his car is definitely blessed.
I did some more testing on my GTech Pro RR this morning also, because I was curious what happened to make the readings 1mph slow on your car. I think it had to do with the fact that it fell off of your windshield. The reason why is I made three runs this morning. As usual, they were all within hundreths of a second of each other. But in the 1st run, my MPH was almost exactly 1mph slower. Furthermore, before that 1st run, the unit was measuring .60g up, and I could not get it to zero out. I don't know if you remember if the unit would not get within .01-.02g of level when you made your runs. So interestingly enough, during my 2nd and 3rd runs, the unit was no longer acting up, and was within .01g of level. And of course my MPH was back to normal again. Interesting. After using it in you car, seems it took a run in my car to get it back to normal! LOL. Actually, I really think it had to do with the unit falling off of your windshield. That subjected it to some "unusual" G forces. But I think since this morning it has recalibrated and all is fine. The Gtech ETs of all of our runs seemed to be accurate nonetheless. The great thing about the GTECH, you WILL be able to see and graph even the slightest changes in horsepower, launch techniques, etc. Nonetheless, it was great to have you bring your Vbox down to substantiate our times. If I could have just acheived .10mph faster than my 110.9 on the Vbox, then I would have had a 111mph run just like Shivs personal car. Thanks again.

FYI...I was very curious what makes the GTech tick. So I took it apart and examined it. As you can see it is not just some cheap toy, rather a well engineered piece of equipment with some sophisticated electronic processors on board. Now take apart the Vbox for us...JK.
Attached Images
  
hotrod182 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2007, 02:25 PM   #21
zenmaster
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: '13 AH3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta

Posts: 1,612
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
Also, I find my car runs closer to 240F when you a cruising for a while, on the fwy, etc.
I always see 240-245F on the highway. With boost, up to 260F.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
Its interesting how the E92 half way point on the temp gauge is 250F, and on my sedan it is 210F.
The March 07 and later production get the new oil temp meter. My guess is that this was done by BMW to better indicate (psychologically) that 240-250 is the normal operating temp and to reduce complaints.
zenmaster is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2007, 03:06 PM   #22
bnj
Banned
 
Drives: e92 335i
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Helsinki

Posts: 1,137
iTrader: (0)

Thanks for both Hotrod and Driver72. This must be more professional than car magazine testing you guys using two devices and even having the 20lb balancing weight in Driver72's trunk. Acceleration is what everyone is interested in and your data is just about that.
Gtech is just amazing for the price. The other products at the price range are just toys. Racelogic is for those who want to have the absolute truth and when the money is no object.
bnj is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:42 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST