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      09-17-2007, 01:13 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philbert View Post
And yours aswell my good friend.
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      09-17-2007, 01:15 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keto View Post
Buying a car for mods is not necessarily a wise man's choice given warranty issues, durability and the like. It certainly may be an enthusiast's choice. You imply that for "around town driving" the 335i is enough, and that is certainly a reasonable opinion. If so, why do you need mods for straight line driving? Does your around town driving involve regular stoplight races? Purchasing a 335 over an M3 because the 335 is better for around town driving is certainly a very arguable opinion (if not the opinion of everyone here ) but it doesn't make sense to buy a car that is sufficient for your driving needs and then mod it to make it comparable to a car you think is overkill. Either you think the 335 is good enough or you don't, and if you don't, are mods really the way to go for most people? Aside from the hobbyist, I think not.
This is a good point, Keto.

The original poster sounds like sdiver reincarnated.

That said, it is clear the 335 can be very formidable when modded. A well modded 335 will be faster in a straight line than an E92 M3. Big deal.

It is not worth it to me to deal with all the little (and possibly big) problems that are inevitable when a car is extensively modified.
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      09-17-2007, 01:15 PM   #47
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It was in the photo/media forum.
Did see that, should have been moved to the "Other cars" forum, not hither...

Best regards, south
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      09-17-2007, 01:15 PM   #48
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Will someone move this thread already.
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      09-17-2007, 01:18 PM   #49
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lol. Im sure the admins will get to it. Whats the big rush
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      09-17-2007, 01:38 PM   #50
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Just wait till the 135i comes out and then the value issue with mods/performance versus the "M" cars will start all over again...........

I predict we will see at least 2-3 threads per week on buying the 135i over the M3 once it comes out.........
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      09-17-2007, 01:41 PM   #51
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Well, the 135is exhaust is a bit more restrictive. So stock for stock it should tie up with the 335i
It would be more appropriate to compare the 335 to the M3 as the design is pratically the same and is based upon the same basic body/chassis.
The 135i styling in my opinion, is hideous. Too small and bunch of other things.
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      09-17-2007, 01:42 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
What do you want me to say then?

Yes, the 335i has the potential to be just as fast as the new M3 WITH MODS! It also will handles great even though the new M handles better.

I am the guy that likes to buy the whole package right from the factory. Given its performance by BMW engineers. Your 335i with software upgrades will have its peformance engineered by aftermarket techs. Not a bad thing but not as good as BMW IMO....

Jason
This thread has been brewing on e90post side for awhile. People were egging each other to post the thread here. Shows you the maturity between 335i owners and M3 owners, who tend to be older and more mature.
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      09-17-2007, 03:40 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philbert View Post
Well, the 135is exhaust is a bit more restrictive. So stock for stock it should tie up with the 335i
It would be more appropriate to compare the 335 to the M3 as the design is pratically the same and is based upon the same basic body/chassis.
The 135i styling in my opinion, is hideous. Too small and bunch of other things.
Yea but the cost of replacing stock exhaust with a more free flowing exhaust will not be significant. The fundamental issue being compared is still bang for the buck and in term of bang for the buck the 135i series will win against 335i at a lower price. It will probably eat 335i on tight and curvy track and I am sure you won't mind 1 series owner posting their results on e90post for a discussion. In this case, I am sure all of sudden the 3 series prestige over the baby 1 series will become more important, along with size and leather quality. However, m3's prestige, heritage, and most important of all engineering are none factors and it is just a overpriced and over glorified BMW.

Additionally, I am not sure if the 335i and M3 chasis is as comparable as people claim it to be because of signification chasis modification made to the e92 chasis for the new m3.

Last edited by Robert; 09-18-2007 at 12:39 AM.
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      09-18-2007, 07:25 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbo View Post
Additionally, I am not sure if the 335i and M3 chasis is as comparable as people claim it to be because of signification chasis modification made to the e92 chasis for the new m3.



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      09-18-2007, 07:27 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philbert View Post
Well, the 135is exhaust is a bit more restrictive. So stock for stock it should tie up with the 335i
It would be more appropriate to compare the 335 to the M3 as the design is pratically the same and is based upon the same basic body/chassis.
The 135i styling in my opinion, is hideous. Too small and bunch of other things.

Ohhhh !
Now you wanna play stock vs. stock.

Since the 135 has a "restricted exhaust" and cost less then a 335 let's modify it and run it against a stock 335.
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      09-18-2007, 09:32 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceWain View Post
Ohhhh !
Now you wanna play stock vs. stock.

Since the 135 has a "restricted exhaust" and cost less then a 335 let's modify it and run it against a stock 335.
The 135 weighs around 100lbs less than a 335, so all of you 1 series geeks get over yourselves. Since we all know that the same engines are not created equal, you dont know shit other than your intent on buying a "lighter", far uglier car and expecting it to beat a 335.
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      09-18-2007, 02:59 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
The 135 weighs around 100lbs less than a 335
And you don't think 100 pounds makes a difference ?
Put a 100 pound man on your back and run from point A to point B.
THEN
Put a 200 pound man on your back and run from point A to point B.

Can you still say that 100 pounds doesn't make a difference ....lol



Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Since we all know that the same engines are not created equal
WTF does that have to do with the previous and current conversation that YOU just entered into without first reading the prior post ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
you dont know shit other than your intent on buying a "lighter", far uglier car and expecting it to beat a 335.
That's just a response of emotion......typically a female trait.
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      09-18-2007, 03:49 PM   #58
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Both of you, ArmyBimmerDude and BruceWain have valid points. I stated this in another thread. 100 pounds is noticeable, but hardly significant. When comparing the two, one must consider the amount of aftermarket parts available for the 3 that arent availble for the 1. 7+ exhaust systems, 5+ coilover systems, 2+ sway bars, 3+ camber plates, 5+ body kits.

I seriously bet that over 50% of the 335i drivers on THIS forum bought their cars as a solid modification platform, myself included. Offsetting a 2 year headstart on what is constantly the most popular bmw platform is hardly an easy task.

Manufacturers know they can have a safe set making aftermarket parts for a 3 series. They sell all day everyday. But a 1-series? It's completely unproven over here. You take into account that most bmw owners are badge whores anyway, and it might just turn out to be a niche car. An Evo will be a superior performer, and the Z4 will have more prestige. Thus, fewer parts available.

Secondly, an aftermarket exhaust can save 40 pounds, I've already saved 40 pounds by switching wheels. Does 20 pounds make a drastic difference? Of course it does. The point is, it's impossible to talk about stock 335is on a car forum. Because very few of the people here bought the car to be stock.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In response to the M3 argument. A chassis is a chassis. The E92 3er is supposed to be *insert significant number here*% stronger than the E90. No one notices the difference. The roof is nice for lowering the center of gravity, but seriously guys. The E9x platform isn't exactly the ultimate design of performance. I've stated before that I do NOT expect the E92 M3 to be as capable of a handler as the E46 M3 was. Why? the chassis, the current state of bmw methodology, and the introduction of excess gadgetry that was never needed to make previous m-cars special.

Ask yourself, what is the M3. It's an E92 with a high revving V8, a body kit, a cf roof, and an advanced suspension setup. That's it guys. When one sits in an E46 or an E39, regardless of the engine, one gets that feeling of driver contact, control, something special, that bmw feeling that those who know what past bmw's feel like understand what i'm saying. That's why the M3 was so amazing. Because it was the best of what was already the best. That feeling doesn't exist in this new 3er. Nor does it exist in the E60. That's why the M5 loses comparos to the AMG and the S6. There was a time when editors wouldn't care about iDrive because when you got in the car, all you wanted to do was drive and drive harder. Those days of BMW are behind us.

So when I say that I can put in a Quaife LSD, and Koni DA coilovers and adjustable sway bars, and a PROcede V2 with DPs and a catback, and a bigger IC, and some non-RFT tires and say that my car will be equal to or better than the M3 as far as performance goes, I mean it.

When the N54 motor came out, we all knew the day would come when the bmw universe was divided by the BMW faithful and the former mod-freaks that decided to come over. I suppose I have a bit of both inside me, but my allegiances are clear.

Yes, out of the box an M3 is a superior automobile. There is no doubt about this. Is it worth $20k more, probably so. Will you be able to have excellent resale? Of course. Is it a solid investment? As far as cars go, probably so.

But if you bought your car to be your car. And you can afford to take the risks. Consider the 335i. If you know that when previous M3 drivers wanted an extra performance edge they bought aftermarket suspension components, then buy aftermarket suspension components and do it yourself.

If you love the thought of having an exotic high-revving V8 motor, but would just as much love to have 400+ ftlbs of wheel torque, then chip and pipe your way to happiness. And if you have even bigger dreams, swap out the turbos and have some real fun.

If you like the way the M3 looks but would prefer to have an even a more exclusive look, go buy yourself something from hamann, or ac, or rieger, or just go ahead and try to copy the M itself.

If you think the M's wheels are cool, but want something that's more special to you, then go buy something different. Or if you're like me, and don't give a rats behind how pretty the M3s wheels are if they're not less than 20lbs, then go join the Volk's fan club.

In the eyes of someone who wants to modify something, it's always a better idea to take the cheaper car and tailor it to your specs. Especially when the cheaper car comes with FI out the gate.


The point i'm trying to make here is simple. Just because it's the M3 way, doesn't mean its the only way or the best way.
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      09-18-2007, 04:18 PM   #59
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Personally, I don't like the oem stock E92 M3 wheels (the ones seen in all the pics and videos of the new M3)...I think they look similar to the '07 Infiniti G35 wheels.
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      09-18-2007, 07:28 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
The 135 weighs around 100lbs less than a 335, so all of you 1 series geeks get over yourselves. Since we all know that the same engines are not created equal, you dont know shit other than your intent on buying a "lighter", far uglier car and expecting it to beat a 335.
Applying the 335i owner mentality. 135i doesn't need to beat the 335i. All it has to do is match the 335i's performance and that will automatically award 135i as winner. Just like score of 335i owners think as long as 335i is as fast as the new m3 it means the 335i is a better car. Isn't that the same argument? Cheaper car with similar straight lane performance as a more expensive big brother automatically awards the cheaper car as winner?
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      09-18-2007, 10:57 PM   #61
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Where on earth are you deriving that logic from. No one's said the 335i was better than the M3. It's been exactly the opposite. People have said that the 335i has M3 potential if not more potential. Ignore Army(no offense army, you know I'm a fan of your ride) and actually read my post before you go generalizing 335i owners.
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      09-19-2007, 12:59 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbo View Post
Applying the 335i owner mentality. 135i doesn't need to beat the 335i. All it has to do is match the 335i's performance and that will automatically award 135i as winner. Just like score of 335i owners think as long as 335i is as fast as the new m3 it means the 335i is a better car. Isn't that the same argument? Cheaper car with similar straight lane performance as a more expensive big brother automatically awards the cheaper car as winner?

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      09-19-2007, 02:35 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbo View Post
Applying the 335i owner mentality. 135i doesn't need to beat the 335i. All it has to do is match the 335i's performance and that will automatically award 135i as winner. Just like score of 335i owners think as long as 335i is as fast as the new m3 it means the 335i is a better car. Isn't that the same argument? Cheaper car with similar straight lane performance as a more expensive big brother automatically awards the cheaper car as winner?
Here, read a part of AcAvengers post since you didnt bother the first time and then argue. Just putting a Procede in a 335 doesnt make it better than a M3. The modifications he wrote below will. "M" is just an expensive letter that some people are in love with. If you can save $10,000 by getting a 335 and upgrading it, why wouldnt you?:


Ask yourself, what is the M3. It's an E92 with a high revving V8, a body kit, a cf roof, and an advanced suspension setup. That's it guys. When one sits in an E46 or an E39, regardless of the engine, one gets that feeling of driver contact, control, something special, that bmw feeling that those who know what past bmw's feel like understand what i'm saying. That's why the M3 was so amazing. Because it was the best of what was already the best. That feeling doesn't exist in this new 3er. Nor does it exist in the E60. That's why the M5 loses comparos to the AMG and the S6. There was a time when editors wouldn't care about iDrive because when you got in the car, all you wanted to do was drive and drive harder. Those days of BMW are behind us.

So when I say that I can put in a Quaife LSD, and Koni DA coilovers and adjustable sway bars, and a PROcede V2 with DPs and a catback, and a bigger IC, and some non-RFT tires and say that my car will be equal to or better than the M3 as far as performance goes, I mean it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger View Post
Where on earth are you deriving that logic from. No one's said the 335i was better than the M3. It's been exactly the opposite. People have said that the 335i has M3 potential if not more potential. Ignore Army(no offense army, you know I'm a fan of your ride) and actually read my post before you go generalizing 335i owners.
Your post was awesome man, I'm just sick of these 135 guys talking about blowing 335's away without having any concrete info about the actual vehicle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceWain View Post
And you don't think 100 pounds makes a difference ?
Put a 100 pound man on your back and run from point A to point B.
THEN
Put a 200 pound man on your back and run from point A to point B.

Can you still say that 100 pounds doesn't make a difference ....lol

How much does a 135 actually weigh?
How much does a 135 actually cost?
What is the actual performance numbers of a 135, not what BMW states?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceWain View Post
WTF does that have to do with the previous and current conversation that YOU just entered into without first reading the prior post ???
Does my 335 and AcAvengers 335 have the same HP/TQ? Therefore, if your parents get you that 135, will your engine have the same HP/TQ as mine? Ok then

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceWain View Post
That's just a response of emotion......typically a female trait.
Wow, that hurt.
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      09-19-2007, 03:02 AM   #64
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you can make almost any car faster then a certain car, all it takes is time and money..... and MONEY.
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      09-19-2007, 05:50 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceWain View Post
Stock vs. Modded ?
Always an unfair comparison.
However, the 335 has such great mod potential even more so with the 335x.

The 335 and M3 are two different tax brackets.
Where a 335 owner may spend $6500 on mods a M3 owner may have to spend $11,000 on somewhat equal performance increasing mods but like I said two different tax brackets. I've heard that VF engineering is planning a twin turbo kit for the E92 M3, (you can call them to confirm) at a price inline with M3 performance upgrades, (once again "tax Bracket").

So then the question becomes:
Modded vs. Modded ?
So what would happen when you pulled up to the light this time ?

I would like to see modded vs modded.
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      09-22-2007, 08:03 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger View Post
Both of you, ArmyBimmerDude and BruceWain have valid points. I stated this in another thread. 100 pounds is noticeable, but hardly significant. When comparing the two, one must consider the amount of aftermarket parts available for the 3 that arent availble for the 1. 7+ exhaust systems, 5+ coilover systems, 2+ sway bars, 3+ camber plates, 5+ body kits.

I seriously bet that over 50% of the 335i drivers on THIS forum bought their cars as a solid modification platform, myself included. Offsetting a 2 year headstart on what is constantly the most popular bmw platform is hardly an easy task.

Manufacturers know they can have a safe set making aftermarket parts for a 3 series. They sell all day everyday. But a 1-series? It's completely unproven over here. You take into account that most bmw owners are badge whores anyway, and it might just turn out to be a niche car. An Evo will be a superior performer, and the Z4 will have more prestige. Thus, fewer parts available.

Secondly, an aftermarket exhaust can save 40 pounds, I've already saved 40 pounds by switching wheels. Does 20 pounds make a drastic difference? Of course it does. The point is, it's impossible to talk about stock 335is on a car forum. Because very few of the people here bought the car to be stock.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In response to the M3 argument. A chassis is a chassis. The E92 3er is supposed to be *insert significant number here*% stronger than the E90. No one notices the difference. The roof is nice for lowering the center of gravity, but seriously guys. The E9x platform isn't exactly the ultimate design of performance. I've stated before that I do NOT expect the E92 M3 to be as capable of a handler as the E46 M3 was. Why? the chassis, the current state of bmw methodology, and the introduction of excess gadgetry that was never needed to make previous m-cars special.

Ask yourself, what is the M3. It's an E92 with a high revving V8, a body kit, a cf roof, and an advanced suspension setup. That's it guys. When one sits in an E46 or an E39, regardless of the engine, one gets that feeling of driver contact, control, something special, that bmw feeling that those who know what past bmw's feel like understand what i'm saying. That's why the M3 was so amazing. Because it was the best of what was already the best. That feeling doesn't exist in this new 3er. Nor does it exist in the E60. That's why the M5 loses comparos to the AMG and the S6. There was a time when editors wouldn't care about iDrive because when you got in the car, all you wanted to do was drive and drive harder. Those days of BMW are behind us.

So when I say that I can put in a Quaife LSD, and Koni DA coilovers and adjustable sway bars, and a PROcede V2 with DPs and a catback, and a bigger IC, and some non-RFT tires and say that my car will be equal to or better than the M3 as far as performance goes, I mean it.

When the N54 motor came out, we all knew the day would come when the bmw universe was divided by the BMW faithful and the former mod-freaks that decided to come over. I suppose I have a bit of both inside me, but my allegiances are clear.

Yes, out of the box an M3 is a superior automobile. There is no doubt about this. Is it worth $20k more, probably so. Will you be able to have excellent resale? Of course. Is it a solid investment? As far as cars go, probably so.

But if you bought your car to be your car. And you can afford to take the risks. Consider the 335i. If you know that when previous M3 drivers wanted an extra performance edge they bought aftermarket suspension components, then buy aftermarket suspension components and do it yourself.

If you love the thought of having an exotic high-revving V8 motor, but would just as much love to have 400+ ftlbs of wheel torque, then chip and pipe your way to happiness. And if you have even bigger dreams, swap out the turbos and have some real fun.

If you like the way the M3 looks but would prefer to have an even a more exclusive look, go buy yourself something from hamann, or ac, or rieger, or just go ahead and try to copy the M itself.

If you think the M's wheels are cool, but want something that's more special to you, then go buy something different. Or if you're like me, and don't give a rats behind how pretty the M3s wheels are if they're not less than 20lbs, then go join the Volk's fan club.

In the eyes of someone who wants to modify something, it's always a better idea to take the cheaper car and tailor it to your specs. Especially when the cheaper car comes with FI out the gate.


The point i'm trying to make here is simple. Just because it's the M3 way, doesn't mean its the only way or the best way.


How can you say the E46 is a better chassis that E92?

I had the E46 325iM and have driven it and a E46 M3 CS at the Nurburgring many times. No matter how much the magazines brag about those cars, they are just not great. High seating position and a terrible "stance" in my opinion, dont like them at all Test a Porsche 996, 997 or a Boxter on a track and see what I mean, the E46 is terrible. The CSL might be good, but never drove it.The E39 was beautiful, the E60 as well, have had them both and both were fantastic at the Ring. (With M suspention, manual sedans) Ive also driven the new M5 at the Ring, fantastic fun, but too heavy.

Now I got a E92 325dM manual and threw away the runflats.
I can easily say that this chassis/car is the best BMW ever and cant wait to go to Germany and do the ulimate testride, the green hell
Need a Hartge too, will get 271 hp and 591 NM:rocks:
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