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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > AA Custom Tune + Turbo Back exhaust Dyno Runs



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      09-18-2007, 05:49 PM   #45
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With what fuel?
93 Shell gas. Only gas i use.
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      09-18-2007, 05:55 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Boostin335 View Post
thats why i question is it worth getting an exhaust + dp + intake and v2 or just getting v2 and not 'waste' my money.. this car has all the stuff the VQmotoring car does and is making 42 less torque then them and 30 less hp. Granted the only difference is an intake so -10 .. i just can't see how they are that different to cause a 20-30 hp and 30-40 torque difference... i just find that so hard to believe.


and the VQ guys i still wanna know how a stg 2 (intake, exhaust (NO DPs) and THE CURRENT PROCEDE) walked an E63 amg... lol i just cant believe that.. if its true god dayummm but ive drivven in more than a few e55s and i also have been in many c6s with intake/headers/tune/cam that are putting 400-450 rwhp.. and a stock c6 vs an e63 is a damn good race... i dont see how a 360rwhp car is going to walk something on a highway roll with 500 torque.

The only reason we are making this kind of wtq is thanks to our exhaust. It is designed to bring out the max amount of wtq possible. We plan to be around 450+wtq with V2 non even tuned. We are going to tune it with a few other special goodies we are testing.

Stay tuned!

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      09-18-2007, 05:57 PM   #47
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here you go.
Yeah, and the funny thing is that Walked U (in his PROcede beta v2.0 335i) also ran against another PROcede (v1.47) 335i in the same thread of videos and literally walked him as well. Personally, I think the difference is mainly from PROcede v2.0 and not so much the DPs, exhaust, and FMIC (although Walked U said the FMIC helped his car to resist heat soak after so many runs).

Again, I think the DPs, exhaust, and other mods help a little, but once again, it's the major increase in HP/TQ from PROcede v2.0 that really makes the difference, and allows Walked U's car to keep pace with a modded E60 M5.

Actually, Omar from AA said something interesting in his post (#39, page 2) in regards to high-flow DPs (and that's coming from another well-respected tuner)...

"I have said it before... IMHO i dont think the turbos can produce enough air to make the downpipes as effective as some hope. They do help with spool like Mr. 5 said but as far as getting another 30 or 40 HP I dont see it happening and raising the boost will not help with this either."
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      09-18-2007, 05:58 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
Yeah, and the funny thing is that Walked U (in his PROcede beta v2.0 335i) also ran against another PROcede (v1.47) 335i in the same thread of videos and literally walked him as well. Personally, I think the difference is mainly from PROcede v2.0 and not so much the DPs, exhaust, and FMIC (although Walked U said the FMIC helped his car to resist heat soak after so many runs).

Again, I think the DPs, exhaust, and other mods help a little, but once again, it's the major increase in HP/TQ from PROcede v2.0 that really makes the difference, and allows Walked U's car to keep pace with a modded E60 M5.

Actually, Omar from AA said something interesting in his above post in regards to high-flow DPs (and that's coming from another well-respected tuner)...

"I have said it before... IMHO i dont think the turbos can produce enough air to make the downpipes as effective as some hope. They do help with spool like Mr. 5 said but as far as getting another 30 or 40 HP I dont see it happening and raising the boost will not help with this either."
So are we hitting the max that these little turbos can do?
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      09-18-2007, 06:00 PM   #49
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So are we hitting the max that these little turbos can do?
I think so.
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      09-18-2007, 06:02 PM   #50
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The only reason we are making this kind of wtq is thanks to our exhaust. It is designed to bring out the max amount of wtq possible. We plan to be around 450+WTQ with V2 non even tuned. We are going to tune it with a few other special goodies we are testing.

Stay tuned!

Rickie Cruz
That's great, Rickie, but how do you know for sure the 335i's tranny can take all that extra TQ? As you know, this has been a highly debated and important topic of discussion, since there may very well be a limit to what the ZF tranny can handle in regards to TQ. Based on our research, most of us feel that we're already pushing its limits just with PROcede alone. Are you guys at VQMotoring going to be the ones to find out the hard way what the 335i ZF tranny's absolute limits are?

I respect what you guys are doing, don't get me wrong, but adding HP/TQ to sky-high numbers (without some serious, long-term testing) just to say you can do it doesn't sit well with many ppl.
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      09-18-2007, 06:07 PM   #51
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Yeah, and the funny thing is that Walked U (in his PROcede beta v2.0 335i) also ran against another PROcede (v1.47) 335i in the same thread of videos and literally walked him as well. Personally, I think the difference is mainly from PROcede v2.0 and not so much the DPs, exhaust, and FMIC (although Walked U said the FMIC helped his car to resist heat soak after so many runs).

Again, I think the DPs, exhaust, and other mods help a little, but once again, it's the major increase in HP/TQ from PROcede v2.0 that really makes the difference, and allows Walked U's car to keep pace with a modded E60 M5.

Actually, Omar from AA said something interesting in his post (#39, page 2) in regards to high-flow DPs (and that's coming from another well-respected tuner)...

"I have said it before... IMHO i dont think the turbos can produce enough air to make the downpipes as effective as some hope. They do help with spool like Mr. 5 said but as far as getting another 30 or 40 HP I dont see it happening and raising the boost will not help with this either."
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      09-18-2007, 06:52 PM   #52
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Pure speculation.
Your saying downpipes, custom quad exhaust, and a FMIC had nothing to do with WalkedU stepping all over the procedev1.47 335i? His "walking all over" the PROcedev1.47 335i should definitely not be attributed to the v2. upgrade. Sure it helps, but until we see v2.0 vs v1.47 on 2 completely otherwise stock 335is, then thats poor guesstimation
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      09-18-2007, 06:57 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by sflgator View Post
Yeah, and the funny thing is that Walked U (in his PROcede beta v2.0 335i) also ran against another PROcede (v1.47) 335i in the same thread of videos and literally walked him as well. Personally, I think the difference is mainly from PROcede v2.0 and not so much the DPs, exhaust, and FMIC (although Walked U said the FMIC helped his car to resist heat soak after so many runs).

Again, I think the DPs, exhaust, and other mods help a little, but once again, it's the major increase in HP/TQ from PROcede v2.0 that really makes the difference, and allows Walked U's car to keep pace with a modded E60 M5.

Actually, Omar from AA said something interesting in his post (#39, page 2) in regards to high-flow DPs (and that's coming from another well-respected tuner)...

"I have said it before... IMHO i dont think the turbos can produce enough air to make the downpipes as effective as some hope. They do help with spool like Mr. 5 said but as far as getting another 30 or 40 HP I dont see it happening and raising the boost will not help with this either."
ok, may be i came off the wrong way. I was not disproving anyone just pointing out the input from a respected tuner.

i think essentially Shiv and Omar agree on some level, althought they worded it differently.
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      09-18-2007, 07:03 PM   #54
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Pure speculation.
Your saying downpipes, custom quad exhaust, and a FMIC had nothing to do with WalkedU stepping all over the procedev1.47 335i? His "walking all over" the PROcedev1.47 335i should definitely not be attributed to the v2. upgrade. Sure it helps, but until we see v2.0 vs v1.47 on 2 completely otherwise stock 335is, then thats poor guesstimation
Well, I'm just using common sense. The PROcede v2.0 upgrade provides an add'l ~ +40WHP / and ~ +20-40 lb.-ft. RWTQ over PROcede v1.47, so it would make sense that a PROcede v2.0 335i would walk a PROcede v1.47 335i in the same manner a PROcede v1.4x walks a stock 335i. We know these gains are real; although there may be some actual HP/TQ gains, the power gains from exhaust, DPs, FMIC, etc. are minimal in comparison with the PROcede v2.0 upgrade. I'm not saying they're not there; just that they're less than that of the v2.0 upgrade.
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      09-18-2007, 07:09 PM   #55
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ok, may be i came off the wrong way. I was not disproving anyone just pointing out the input from a respected tuner.

i think essentially Shiv and Omar agree on some level, althought they worded it differently.
No, I understood you; I was agreeing with you that even a couple respected tuners can see that the gains from DPs may be less than once thought they would be. I think many ppl assume that just b/c some cat-back exhausts have seen gains of +15-25WHP over the stock exhaust that there will automatically be similar power gains from higher-flow DPs behind the turbos.

I think someone here once said that you can't expect to add all the individual gains up...it doesn't work that way; i.e. PROcede (+100WHP) + exhaust (+ another 20WHP) + DPs (+ another 20WHP), etc...all this together will NOT necessarily = +140WHP+.
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      09-18-2007, 07:18 PM   #56
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oh...ok...got confused there for a minute. i remember when i got my coilovers installed,the owner of the shop and me were talking for a while, and one of the things he mentioned were that a 30whp gain solely on the addition of DPs were not realistic (he was scoffing while he said this BTW). He pretty much aggreed with what shiv stated, that the power is pretty much just spread out evenly across the powerband. not a jump in the peak. I actually started a thread on this a while back in order to get some more input. More on the use of an xpipe than the use of DPs.
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      09-18-2007, 07:57 PM   #57
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LIsten, just call me. I live in Boca. I know all the places to go to. And SRC IS NOT one of them. Their dyno hasnt been calibrated for years. I went there with a car, dynoed it, and made 28 MORE rwhp on a differnt dyno. I know al the guys like family at AA,plus I have my own shop. So hit me up! Ill take you over to Billet, thats where we do all our dynoes! Custom tuning and all!
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      09-18-2007, 08:09 PM   #58
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LIsten, just call me. I live in Boca. I know all the places to go to. And SRC IS NOT one of them. Their dyno hasnt been calibrated for years. I went there with a car, dynoed it, and made 28 MORE rwhp on a differnt dyno. I know al the guys like family at AA,plus I have my own shop. So hit me up! Ill take you over to Billet, thats where we do all our dynoes! Custom tuning and all!
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Also, just as an FYI on tuning shops here...

We did our Vishnu XEDE beta test group installs at JapTrix in Riviera Beach back in Dec., '06. They use the Mustang Dyno, and those guys at JapTrix know what they're doing. My brother has used them for years (before/after they moved to their newer facility in Riviera Beach). If I'm not mistaken, I believe Shiv went back to JapTrix for a PROcede group install earlier this year as well.

http://www.japtrix.com/
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      09-18-2007, 08:45 PM   #59
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Well, I'm just using common sense. The PROcede v2.0 upgrade provides an add'l ~ +40WHP / and ~ +20-40 lb.-ft. RWTQ over PROcede v1.47, so it would make sense that a PROcede v2.0 335i would walk a PROcede v1.47 335i in the same manner a PROcede v1.4x walks a stock 335i. We know these gains are real; although there may be some actual HP/TQ gains, the power gains from exhaust, DPs, FMIC, etc. are minimal in comparison with the PROcede v2.0 upgrade. I'm not saying they're not there; just that they're less than that of the v2.0 upgrade.

I've seen people quoting 100whp gains with PROcede v2.0. Yet Shiv himself says WalkedU's 335i has no more than 355-365 whp (Custom tuned by Shiv). Given 335is dyno at 275+ whp that is nearly a 90whp gain- with all those mods on top of the v2.0. Downpipes on otherwise stock 335is are showing 30whp gains correct me if I'm wrong. ( Remember looking at a dyno on here).I think until we get some members dynoing v2.0 of PROcede vs their v1.47, its safe to assume that the claims arent what people around here have been claiming.
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      09-18-2007, 08:54 PM   #60
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LIsten, just call me. I live in Boca. I know all the places to go to. And SRC IS NOT one of them. Their dyno hasnt been calibrated for years. I went there with a car, dynoed it, and made 28 MORE rwhp on a differnt dyno. I know al the guys like family at AA,plus I have my own shop. So hit me up! Ill take you over to Billet, thats where we do all our dynoes! Custom tuning and all!
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LOL i called SRC today they wanted 100 dollars for baseline Dyno. This car was a graduation present- I pay for my gas and insurance so I'm on a tight budget with mods and what not.I might consider actually giving you a call and bothering you Hook it up!
Oh, and by any chance do you know a kid named Kyle- Silver E46 M3 ...missing side skirt. Bit of a studder :P
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      09-18-2007, 09:13 PM   #61
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I've seen people quoting 100whp gains with PROcede v2.0. Yet Shiv himself says WalkedU's 335i has no more than 355-365 whp (Custom tuned by Shiv). Given 335is dyno at 275+ whp that is nearly a 90whp gain- with all those mods on top of the v2.0. Downpipes on otherwise stock 335is are showing 30whp gains correct me if I'm wrong. ( Remember looking at a dyno on here).I think until we get some members dynoing v2.0 of PROcede vs their v1.47, its safe to assume that the claims arent what people around here have been claiming.
Remember Walked U and all those guys in CA run on 91 octane, whereas we all run on 93 octane. Typically, Shiv's dynos with his exhaust (running on 91 octane) have been similar to our dynos with stock exhaust (running on 93 octane).

My car (stock) dyno'd at 265WHP and 286 lb.-ft. RWTQ; then after the original (Vishnu) XEDE install that same day in Dec., '06, it dyno'd at 322WHP (+57WHP) and 378 lb.-ft. RWTQ (+92 lb.-ft. RWTQ). So, if my car with PROcede v2.0 would dyno at ~ 365WHP and ~ 390 lb.-ft. RWTQ, I'd be up ~ +100WHP and ~ +104 lb.-ft. RWTQ over stock.
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      09-18-2007, 09:15 PM   #62
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My car (stock) dyno'd at 265WHP and 286 lb.-ft. RWTQ; then after the original (Vishnu) XEDE install that day, it dyno'd at 322WHP (+57WHP) and 378 lb.-ft. RWTQ (+92 lb.-ft. RWTQ). So, if my car with PROcede v2.0 would dyno at ~ 365WHP and ~ 390 lb.-ft. RWTQ, I'd be up ~ +100WHP and ~ +104 lb.-ft. RWTQ.
Correct- once you get V2 installed go to the same Dyno and then post your graphs. If it does get to 365whp then I'll disregard my doubts.
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      09-18-2007, 09:21 PM   #63
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Correct- once you get V2 installed go to the same Dyno and then post your graphs. If it does get to 365whp then I'll disregard my doubts.
I probably won't dyno it again (didn't dyno even after I switched from the Vishnu XEDE to PROcede), since I really don't care that much about the numbers per say; to me, it's all about physically being faster than before and getting into the mid-high 12's at Moroso. I'll know if my PROcede v2.0 makes more power than with PROcede 1.47...just from my butt dyno, a few runs with my Beltronics Vector FX1 timer, and when we all go back to Moroso in ~ 6 weeks. :rocks:

Plus, you and I both know that they'll be a whole slew of ppl on here posting up their PROcede v2.0 dynos...so we can gauge it from there.
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      09-18-2007, 09:44 PM   #64
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The only reason we are making this kind of wtq is thanks to our exhaust. It is designed to bring out the max amount of wtq possible. We plan to be around 450+wtq with V2 non even tuned. We are going to tune it with a few other special goodies we are testing.

Stay tuned!

Rickie Cruz
I would love for Rickie to answer my questions in post#50 of this thread. ^^^
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      09-18-2007, 11:07 PM   #65
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As I've said before, the DPs may or may not increase peak HP, but it sure as hell increases usable HP.

On a track (definitely road course, not sure about drag strip), it spools up soooooo much faster that it is a MUST have in my opinion. Having that precision getting-on-throttle control definitely lowered my lap times.
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      09-19-2007, 05:10 AM   #66
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The reason for possibly quite low peak hp gains is due to the turbos maxing out. We seriously need a slight turbo upgrade to get further from where we stand at the moment.
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