E90Post
 


European Auto Source
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > Adding DEF



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-10-2013, 01:03 AM   #1
cschmelz
New Member
1
Rep
19
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 335D
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Yakima, WA

iTrader: (0)

Adding DEF

So I ran out of DEF between oil changes (maybe because of my lead foot, maybe because the dealership didn't fill it right) and got the dreaded "1000 miles to no start" message.

I bought 2.5 gallons with the weird hose from AutoZone for $15 and by pouring slowly got the active (lower filler) tank filled and put a little in the passive tank.

Still had a 'no start in 974 miles' message. I went and bought 2 of the 0.5gallon VW AdBlue bottles and confirmed the active tank was full. I put the other 1 gallon in the passive tank and STILL got the "no start" message.

I was basically like "screw it" and decided to just drive the car for a while. After about 10-15 miles of driving the "no start" indication was gone.


Just a word of warning if you think you filled it enough and it still gives you the message, just drive a bit. Might fix the problem like it did for me.
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2013, 06:55 AM   #2
usna2k
Private
0
Rep
87
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 335d
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chesapeake, VA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW 335d  [3.00]
That's normal actually. It takes the computer system a while to register that you've filled the tanks back up.
__________________

2011 TiAg 335d -- OEM Performance Aero Rear Bumper / Diffuser / CF Insert; OEM Performance Side Skirts; Body Color Front License Plate Bracket; JBSPEED E90 LCI Front Splitters; Rear Fog Light enable; M-Sport Steering Wheel; Pearlescent Chrome E-Brake Handle. Retrofitted Combox from BimmerTech.
BMWCCA #460040
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2013, 07:26 AM   #3
Mark M
Captain
Mark M's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
946
Posts

 
Drives: E30M3 E83X3 E90335D
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Heard the passive tank can't be filled without pressurization? Read on here that the larger passive tank sits higher up than the fill port, so to fill it full you need a pressureized charge?

What is your experience?

I've thought about jacking the left rear of the car up high so as to allow a fill up of the passive tank.

Also, from what I've read this is my understanding:

- The passive tank is ~4 gallons.
- The active tank is ~2.5 gallons.
- The active tank is heated and feeds the exhaust injection with DEF.
- The passive tank is not heated but has a pump whose job is to meter in DEF to the active tank to keep it full.
- DEF freezes at ~25 degrees F.
- DEF ages quickly and can crystalize components.

Under that logic, wouldn't the ideal approach be to always fill the passive tank when low and let the pump do its job thus minimizing the aged DEF in the system? (Unless you are in a pinch and need DEF in the active immediately)

Just asking based on what I've read, have only had my 335d less than two weeks now.
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2013, 09:21 AM   #4
F32Fleet
BMWCCA since '03
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
69
Rep
5,331
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta (Vinings)

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
Heard the passive tank can't be filled without pressurization? Read on here that the larger passive tank sits higher up than the fill port, so to fill it full you need a pressureized charge?

What is your experience?

I've thought about jacking the left rear of the car up high so as to allow a fill up of the passive tank.

Also, from what I've read this is my understanding:

- The passive tank is ~4 gallons.
- The active tank is ~2.5 gallons.
- The active tank is heated and feeds the exhaust injection with DEF.
- The passive tank is not heated but has a pump whose job is to meter in DEF to the active tank to keep it full.
- DEF freezes at ~25 degrees F.
- DEF ages quickly and can crystalize components.

Under that logic, wouldn't the ideal approach be to always fill the passive tank when low and let the pump do its job thus minimizing the aged DEF in the system? (Unless you are in a pinch and need DEF in the active immediately)

Just asking based on what I've read, have only had my 335d less than two weeks now.
Makes sense but of course you're filling more often.
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2013, 09:33 AM   #5
Mark M
Captain
Mark M's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
946
Posts

 
Drives: E30M3 E83X3 E90335D
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
Makes sense but of course you're filling more often.
Not sure how you meant you'd be filling more often?

If you fill the passive tank only you would be filling less often. (4 gallon capacity as said above)

If you only fill the active tank, then your logic is true and you would be filling more often.
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2013, 09:48 AM   #6
335dFan
Jumping Jack Flash
335dFan's Avatar
United_States
13
Rep
1,082
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 335d
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oregon (near Portland)

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
Not sure how you meant you'd be filling more often?

If you fill the passive tank only you would be filling less often. (4 gallon capacity as said above)

If you only fill the active tank, then your logic is true and you would be filling more often.
Dumb guy question: Am confused---if the passive tank is feeding the active tank, then why would you ever fill the active tank? Unless the mechanism to transfer from passive to active is not working, then you have a problem anyway.
__________________
Mods-Etc: Quaife LSD w/VAC finned diff cover, M3 Rear SF Bushings, M3 sways & OEM Susp Front/Rear Cmpnt Kits ('cept strut brace), GC Caster/Camber Plates, AC Schnitzer M3 Sport Springs, JRZ RS1 dampers, JBD 100%, Goodrich SS brake lines, non-stggrd APEX ARC-8 18" wheels with Nitto Motivo tires (winter OEM 17" wheels and Blizzak LM-25).
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2013, 09:58 AM   #7
Pierre Louis
First Lieutenant
4
Rep
301
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 335d Sport Package
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Savannah

iTrader: (0)

I just fill the passive tank by gravity and then put some in the active tank. Works fine after driving a bit. Don't think it needs to be pressurized.

PL
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2013, 10:28 AM   #8
F32Fleet
BMWCCA since '03
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
69
Rep
5,331
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta (Vinings)

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
Not sure how you meant you'd be filling more often?

If you fill the passive tank only you would be filling less often. (4 gallon capacity as said above)

If you only fill the active tank, then your logic is true and you would be filling more often.
Total capacity is 6 gal. Filling only passive means you'll be 2 gal short. So you'll fill more often over X miles (ex 9k vs 13k miles).
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2013, 10:38 AM   #9
Mark M
Captain
Mark M's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
946
Posts

 
Drives: E30M3 E83X3 E90335D
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
Total capacity is 6 gal. Filling only passive means you'll be 2 gal short. So you'll fill more often over X miles (ex 9k vs 13k miles).
Ok, gotcha. I think we were misunderstanding each other.

The point I was making is that some people seem to only refill the active tank, thereby shortening their possible driving duration and also neglecting the critical regular operation of the passive tank to circulate the DEF.

I was inferring that really filling the passive tank should be done and let the passive tank meter the DEF into the active tank to allow all mechanisms to work properly.
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2013, 02:02 PM   #10
hrc630
Private
1
Rep
88
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 335d 2009
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Quebec, Canada

iTrader: (0)

I have filled both tank with no problem (long, but easy)
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2013, 02:50 PM   #11
GreekboyD
Colonel
Canada
42
Rep
2,668
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 BMW 335d
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335d  [3.75]
My passive tank won't receive any urea. It's most likely a plugged valve.
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2013, 05:27 PM   #12
DaBrass
Enlisted Member
1
Rep
31
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 335d (E90)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada

iTrader: (1)

I just refilled this weekend. I essentially filled the Passive tank first, drove around the block until the warning went out, then topped up the Passive tank again. After the Passive was full, I topped up the Active tank and now the back end feels heavier.

After driving it...there was a bit of vacuum seal while opening the caps, but nothing else.

I'd say in total, I used about 15L out of the 19.5L I bought (2 jugs). Works out to about 4 out of the 5 gallons.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 06:36 AM   #13
F32Fleet
BMWCCA since '03
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
69
Rep
5,331
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta (Vinings)

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBrass View Post
I just refilled this weekend. I essentially filled the Passive tank first, drove around the block until the warning went out, then topped up the Passive tank again. After the Passive was full, I topped up the Active tank and now the back end feels heavier.

After driving it...there was a bit of vacuum seal while opening the caps, but nothing else.

I'd say in total, I used about 15L out of the 19.5L I bought (2 jugs). Works out to about 4 out of the 5 gallons.
IIRC the active tank is re-filled 3 liters at a time by the passive tank. This may explain any inconsistencies.
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2013, 01:37 PM   #14
rogerdiaz
Lieutenant
United_States
6
Rep
541
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 335d
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Durham,NC

iTrader: (2)

The active tank is the lower nozzle correct? Has a blue ring says urea refill? I got the warning light but urea wont go in. Few ounces goes in and then starts spitting out/overflowing. ?

Last edited by rogerdiaz; 07-07-2013 at 06:43 PM.
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2013, 05:38 PM   #15
335dM
Major
24
Rep
1,040
Posts

 
Drives: 335d m package
Join Date: May 2011
Location: montreal

iTrader: (0)

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=513011&d=1303262242
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2013, 06:52 PM   #16
rogerdiaz
Lieutenant
United_States
6
Rep
541
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 335d
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Durham,NC

iTrader: (2)

updates

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD View Post
My passive tank won't receive any urea. It's most likely a plugged valve.
Any updates to your issue? I am having the same problem for first time.

Started refilling. Was flowing nicely did about 1 Liter. Started to rain so stopped the operation. Screwed on caps. Went back out to redo. Heard a vacuum suck noise when I unscrewed lower filler. No urea won't go in. Few ounces and then starts overflowing. Very strange.
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2013, 07:16 PM   #17
GreekboyD
Colonel
Canada
42
Rep
2,668
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 BMW 335d
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335d  [3.75]
I honestly didn't bother looking into it yet. I had two weeks off in June but the thought of not having my car for over a week turns me off.
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2013, 08:58 PM   #18
rogerdiaz
Lieutenant
United_States
6
Rep
541
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 335d
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Durham,NC

iTrader: (2)

used upper nozzle, light off

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD View Post
I honestly didn't bother looking into it yet. I had two weeks off in June but the thought of not having my car for over a week turns me off.
well maybe I just entered the twilight zone. I decided to fill the upper nozzle and it worked. It took the 2.5 gallon without a problem. Tommorrow I am going to buy another. Drove around and dash light is off.
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2013, 10:30 AM   #19
Hoooper
Major
13
Rep
1,022
Posts

 
Drives: 335D
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hayward, CA

iTrader: (0)

I havent seen any good diagrams of our tank/filler neck but I would guess that if you have crystallization in the filler neck you could open up the drains in the tank and blast some warm water at it until the crystals dissolve and the filler is opened up again.

If you are using something funnel-like that has a somewhat tight fit into the filler neck and filling up the funnel too quickly the tanks dont breathe fast enough and start to bubble out. I had much better success putting the funnel just into the filler neck, not sticking it in very far so that there was a large air gap at the mouth of the filler neck, that allowed me to fill much more quickly than when I tried it with the funnel sealing at the filler neck. Image of what I mean below

Appreciate 0
      07-08-2013, 12:54 PM   #20
335dM
Major
24
Rep
1,040
Posts

 
Drives: 335d m package
Join Date: May 2011
Location: montreal

iTrader: (0)

For me i bought the VW bottle that you can screw, bought a 5 gallon of def at my local auto part and cut the bottom of the VW bottle, screw it to my the lower nozzle then when filled up , the upper one and ask my friend to fill it with the big 5 gallon while I push and hold the VW bottle.
Appreciate 0
      07-08-2013, 01:10 PM   #21
Quasimodem
Colonel
Quasimodem's Avatar
United_States
37
Rep
2,257
Posts

 
Drives: 335d
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 335d US  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD View Post
My passive tank won't receive any urea. It's most likely a plugged valve.
This is why I only fill the passive tank. My theory is that the valve needs to be constantly used so it doesn't stick due to crystallization. If you fill the active tank full, IMHO the short time lack of use of the valve could cause it to get plugged up.

But I am not an expert.
__________________
Speakers: CDT Audio HD-42 comps--front doors (RAAMmat deadened), CDT ES-06 6.5" woofers--kickpanl Pods, Hertz EBX202R dual 8" ported trunk sub. Amps: Phoenix Gold RSd 500.4 (comps & pods). PG RSd 600.1 (sub). Power & Ground: 4AWG Streetwires w/RockFosgt RFDB1 distro blocks. Input: HU lineout--Kicker KISL RCA adapters--RockFosgt RFIT-6 cables--Audiocontrol Matrix--Monster cables--RSd 500.4--lineout Monstr Cabl to RSd 600.1.
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2013, 02:45 PM   #22
TDIwyse
Major
22
Rep
1,136
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 335d
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MidWest

iTrader: (0)

Good suggestions/advice on filling. Thanks.

Any of you buy bulk DEF? The truck stop near me added a bulk DEF dispenser. $2.69/gallon. Will eventually need to start doing this myself ...
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:09 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST