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      07-06-2013, 02:44 PM   #1
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Polishing questions

For those of you that were watching my other thread you know that I am trying my hand at polishing for the first time. I started polishing today, and I started with a LC tangerine pad, then switch to the cyan pad (Because the tangerine pad was not cutting enough), and I still have a few scratches in the paint. I went over the paint about four times using menzerna pf2500.

My first question is, should I expect to have some deeper scratches remain in the paint, and secondly, how many times should I go over a 2x2 area? I don't want to do too many times and damage the paint, but at the same time I want to do enough so that I get rid of as many scratches as possible.

Any tips you could provide would be much appreciated!
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      07-06-2013, 04:36 PM   #2
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Your not going to do any damage to your paint. Hand polishing only removes the lightest of the lightest defects. You only remove clear coat microns enough to worry about with a machine.
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      07-07-2013, 12:11 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Otruba_843 View Post
Your not going to do any damage to your paint. Hand polishing only removes the lightest of the lightest defects. You only remove clear coat microns enough to worry about with a machine.
Should I expect to remove all scratches from the paint that I can't feel with my fingernail, or are there some scratches that won't come out? I went over an area four times with the cyan pad but there were still scratches.
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      07-07-2013, 12:55 AM   #4
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Should I expect to remove all scratches from the paint that I can't feel with my fingernail, or are there some scratches that won't come out? I went over an area four times with the cyan pad but there were still scratches.
You should be able to get all the swirls out. The scratches you are referring to...what do they look like????? If they are RIDS (Random Isolated Deep Scratches) then I say...leave them since Wet-Sanding is probably the best way to deal with it. There is no point in trying to chase down RIDS on a DD because the process will remove too much CC. A show car is a different story.

Could you describe your process when you say you went over it 4 times???? Did you do a test spot????
How many sectional passes did you do each time???? What was your arm speed and pressure??? Were your pads properly primed??

For starter....you should reduce your work area to somewhere between 1' x 1' and 1.5' x 1.5' for removing defects with the PC.
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      07-07-2013, 01:08 PM   #5
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Should I expect to remove all scratches from the paint that I can't feel with my fingernail, or are there some scratches that won't come out? I went over an area four times with the cyan pad but there were still scratches.
Woops. I read your post in a hurry. I read it as "try at hand polishing" rather than "try my hand at polishing". You should be able to take all the swirls and light scratches with a machine. I usually do about 6-7 passes on an area.
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      07-07-2013, 09:49 PM   #6
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You should be able to get all the swirls out. The scratches you are referring to...what do they look like????? If they are RIDS (Random Isolated Deep Scratches) then I say...leave them since Wet-Sanding is probably the best way to deal with it. There is no point in trying to chase down RIDS on a DD because the process will remove too much CC. A show car is a different story.

Could you describe your process when you say you went over it 4 times???? Did you do a test spot????
How many sectional passes did you do each time???? What was your arm speed and pressure??? Were your pads properly primed??

For starter....you should reduce your work area to somewhere between 1' x 1' and 1.5' x 1.5' for removing defects with the PC.
I'm guessing these scratches are RIDS.

What I mean by doing a spot four times is that I went over that area in a forward-back/side-to-side motion until the polish was gone and I needed to apply more product. I consider that one (1) time. As far as sectional passes, I would guess that I did 10 passes (five forward-back and five side-to-side). My arm speed wasn't that fast, but I didn't apply much pressure.... Should I?

What do you mean by properly primed? I haven't heard of that yet.

Thanks for the help!
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      07-07-2013, 09:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otruba_843 View Post
Woops. I read your post in a hurry. I read it as "try at hand polishing" rather than "try my hand at polishing". You should be able to take all the swirls and light scratches with a machine. I usually do about 6-7 passes on an area.
No problem! I'm definitely not doing this by hand. Does the 6-7 passes include cutting and polishing, or just cutting?
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      07-07-2013, 10:52 PM   #8
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I'm guessing these scratches are RIDS.

What I mean by doing a spot four times is that I went over that area in a forward-back/side-to-side motion until the polish was gone and I needed to apply more product. I consider that one (1) time. As far as sectional passes, I would guess that I did 10 passes (five forward-back and five side-to-side). My arm speed wasn't that fast, but I didn't apply much pressure.... Should I?

What do you mean by properly primed? I haven't heard of that yet.

Thanks for the help!
Priming the pad means you spread the polish on the pad (like spreading butter on toast) prior to the working product. You are looking to cover the face of the pad. Once primed....add a few (3-4) pea size dots of product and you are now ready to go to work. You only need to prime the pad once (when they were clean and dry).

Mark a vertical line on your backing plate with a sharpie so you could monitor the spinning of the pad. Too much pressure....the machine will bogged down (stop spinning) and nothing happens to the paint. Too little pressure.....again nothing will happens to the paint. You are looking for that sweet spot between the two. It's about 15 -20 lbs.

Your arm speed should be about 1" per sec. The best way to do this is to count it out. If you are doing a section about 1' x 1' and you are using a 5.5 pad, you should be able to count out to about 6 (one thousand and one, one thousand and two, one thousand and three, etc) from your starting point to your ending point. Also.....concentrate on keeping the pad flat to the surface as you make your passes. This will help in getting the entire pad surface to work for you.

You should be able to do about 5-6 passes with 3-4 pea size dots of products if your work area is around 1' x 1' to 1.5' x 1.5'. Try to add the dots away from the center of the pad since the polish tends to travel inward as you work.
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      07-08-2013, 06:05 AM   #9
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Priming the pad means you spread the polish on the pad (like spreading butter on toast) prior to the working product. You are looking to cover the face of the pad. Once primed....add a few (3-4) pea size dots of product and you are now ready to go to work. You only need to prime the pad once (when they were clean and dry).

Mark a vertical line on your backing plate with a sharpie so you could monitor the spinning of the pad. Too much pressure....the machine will bogged down (stop spinning) and nothing happens to the paint. Too little pressure.....again nothing will happens to the paint. You are looking for that sweet spot between the two. It's about 15 -20 lbs.

Your arm speed should be about 1" per sec. The best way to do this is to count it out. If you are doing a section about 1' x 1' and you are using a 5.5 pad, you should be able to count out to about 6 (one thousand and one, one thousand and two, one thousand and three, etc) from your starting point to your ending point. Also.....concentrate on keeping the pad flat to the surface as you make your passes. This will help in getting the entire pad surface to work for you.

You should be able to do about 5-6 passes with 3-4 pea size dots of products if your work area is around 1' x 1' to 1.5' x 1.5'. Try to add the dots away from the center of the pad since the polish tends to travel inward as you work.
Great information - thanks! I actually was priming the pads (unknowingly), but I was using too much product after that.

I am going to try using more pressure and apply less product and see if I get better results.
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      07-09-2013, 06:51 PM   #10
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Do not use excessive pressure! Let the polish/pad do the work. Try 3 up 3 down. 2" per second, wipe and do a second pass if needed.
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      07-09-2013, 07:47 PM   #11
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WOT Bimmer,

Here are some articles from the experts in the detailing industry that you might want to read...

Kevin Brown Method- There are 3 articles. The first 2 are very technical. Read about defect removal on the 3rd article regarding pressure and arm speed.

http://www.buffdaddy.com/kevinbrownmethod

Mike Phillip's Definitive how to articles on DA polishing. It's like having his book without paying for it.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...polishing.html
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      07-09-2013, 09:01 PM   #12
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WOT Bimmer,

Here are some articles from the experts in the detailing industry that you might want to read...

Kevin Brown Method- There are 3 articles. The first 2 are very technical. Read about defect removal on the 3rd article regarding pressure and arm speed.

http://www.buffdaddy.com/kevinbrownmethod

Mike Phillip's Definitive how to articles on DA polishing. It's like having his book without paying for it.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...polishing.html
Awesome! Thanks! Ohio has been in monsoon season lately, but I think it is supposed to clear up tomorrow and I am going to try to clean the car again.
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      07-09-2013, 09:34 PM   #13
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You might want to look into purchasing a more aggressive compound. Menzerna PF2500 is considered to have a medium/moderate cutting capability, so it won't be abrasive enough for deep scratches and RIDs. Examples of aggresive/high cutting compounds would be:
- Meguiars M105 or M101
- Menzerna FG400

I had deep swirls, scratches and RIDs on my Volvo and was able to polish them out completely using PC 7424XP and M105 on an LC Orange Pad at speed 5. I did a 2'x2' section, 6 total passes (3 side to side, 3 up and down), moving at about 1" per second using medium pressure. All that was left were light swirls and some marring that Meguiars M205 on an LC White pad corrected just fine.
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      07-10-2013, 07:14 PM   #14
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I was going to look for Menzerna FG400 or Meguiars M105 today, so I did a Google search for local detailing supplies and came up with Esoteric Detailing in New Albany, OH (about 20 minutes from where I live). I'll throw a quick plug in for them.... I pulled up and there were three mouth-watering Ferraris sitting in the lot getting detailed. I walked in side and was greeted by Todd who was extremely professional and seemed to know his business well. If you are in the central OH area I would recommend them.

Anyhow, I was going to get some Scholl's S3 Gold compound, and after I explained my situation to him with the swirls and deeper clearcoat scratches, he suggested I try a different disc for the initial cutting (instead of LC). So, I bought two Meguiars DA microfiber DMC5 pads since they were half the price of the S3. He said the DMC5 pads are what they use when they have some deeper swirls/scratches that are within the clearcoat. He also explained that no pad priming is necessary, and you only need to apply three drops of product to the pad. These pads are designed to be used at a lower speed (PC speed 4-5), moved slowly moved across the surface, and with a reasonable amount of pressure. It will leave a haze behind that a LC crimson pad and menzerna PF4000 will take care of.

Just thought I would pass that on in case anyone has any input.
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      07-10-2013, 08:26 PM   #15
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Was it Todd Cooperider that helped you??? He is a contributing Pro blogger for DI as well as a one of the most respected detailers in US.

Meguiar D300 w/ MF cutting pad has been my "Go to" combo when I need something more aggressive without going to wool. Compressed air is the best way to clean and fluff the pad between sections.

Good Luck and have fun.
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      07-10-2013, 09:45 PM   #16
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Was it Todd Cooperider that helped you??? He is a contributing Pro blogger for DI as well as a one of the most respected detailers in US.

Meguiar D300 w/ MF cutting pad has been my "Go to" combo when I need something more aggressive without going to wool. Compressed air is the best way to clean and fluff the pad between sections.

Good Luck and have fun.
Oh my goodness it was! Dummy me.... I can't believe I have lived this close for so long.

That makes me feel pretty good about the recommendations he provided. He was definitely a really helpful guy that was willing to share his knowledge

You are right about the compressed air. Todd also suggested using your finger nails to fluff it up in between passes.
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      07-11-2013, 10:05 PM   #17
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Just wrapped up with the detail! The car is in the bay right now with a coat of wax that I am allowing to cure overnight. I ended up removing the swirls and such with the Meguiars DMC5 MF pad and Menzerna PF2500, then I went through with a LC crimson pad and PF4000. The finish left behind by the MF and PF2500 almost looked like the final polish, but I still wanted to do the final with the PF4000. I also applied the wax with the PC. I must say applying wax with a DA is so much easier, effective, and efficient than applying by hand.

I will try to get some pics tomorrow during the day.
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      07-11-2013, 10:16 PM   #18
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Just wrapped up with the detail! The car is in the bay right now with a coat of wax that I am allowing to cure overnight. I ended up removing the swirls and such with the Meguiars DMC5 MF pad and Menzerna PF2500, then I went through with a LC crimson pad and PF4000. The finish left behind by the MF and PF2500 almost looked like the final polish, but I still wanted to do the final with the PF4000. I also applied the wax with the PC. I must say applying wax with a DA is so much easier, effective, and efficient than applying by hand.

I will try to get some pics tomorrow during the day.
Congratulation!!!! Looking forward to the pics.
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      07-13-2013, 09:02 AM   #19
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Here are some iPhone quality pics. There are still some scratches here and there, but for my first attempt I was pretty happy with the result.

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