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      06-12-2013, 10:34 AM   #947
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I wouldn't worry about A6's either way, they are one-day tires at a racetrack.
Well yeah....Guess I'll have to look into a used set and try em out!
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      06-12-2013, 02:08 PM   #948
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1. Change your radiator. By 90K miles, mine was leaking, and clogged, despite spraying water at it.
2. Try and hose down your radiator (actually your condenser, but the radiator will get hit right behind it), before each session. That will radically lower your water, and even oil temps b4 you go out for a session. My water gets down to 59F to start the session. By the time I'm ending the session, I'm at 107F. This was suggested by The Hack, and it has eliminated the issues for me. I'm running Cobbs 100 Octane race map btw.
Thanks for the suggestions! I only have 45k miles on my car, so shouldn't have any problems with the radiator at this point I wouldn't think. Plus the coolant I drained out looked pretty clear.

I will definitely try #2 next time. Do you just take a spray bottle to it? Or do you really need access to a hose? Just glad to know I am getting there on coolant temp management finally. Its so frustrating when you are in your groove on the track and then the car pull power and throws a CEL, just ruins concentration.

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      06-12-2013, 03:14 PM   #949
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Originally Posted by raceyBMW View Post
Thanks for the suggestions! I only have 45k miles on my car, so shouldn't have any problems with the radiator at this point I wouldn't think. Plus the coolant I drained out looked pretty clear.

I will definitely try #2 next time. Do you just take a spray bottle to it? Or do you really need access to a hose? Just glad to know I am getting there on coolant temp management finally. Its so frustrating when you are in your groove on the track and then the car pull power and throws a CEL, just ruins concentration.
Racey, depending on what year your car is, you might still want to chuck that oem radiator. Anyways, I use a hose at the track, and really hose it down. You can use water in squrit bottles too, but you have to make sure you really soak the whole front. I also get my intercooler, and oil cooler from under the wheel well. I even leave it wet before starting the session, as rapidly evaporating water, further reduces temps. I use a hose in tracks with a hose. Ones without, I just go ahead and run, because I don't really have that much of a problem with water or oil temps, after changing my water pump, thermostat, and radiator, recently.
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      06-13-2013, 05:32 PM   #950
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17x9.5 ET35 Arc-8's with 5mm spacers. I'm also at 3.3 degrees negative camber now, so thats a consideration.
Can you post a picture of this setup (with the 275 tires), please?
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      06-13-2013, 09:12 PM   #951
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Originally Posted by vwong

Can you post a picture of this setup (with the 275 tires), please?
Already did, look at Apex's 17" track wheel thread it's recent in there. Got several pictures of the 275's up front.
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      07-15-2013, 11:47 PM   #952
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NCRC - Thunderhill 6-30-2013

I updated the spreadsheet with some results from running with NCRC at Thunderhill on June 30th. We had 5 run sessions of 20 minutes long. By 11am it was in the high 90's, and peaked out at 104F early afternoon. My fastest lap was 2:22, and by the last two run sessions was consistently running 2:24 to 2:26. As I was in the novice group (1 to 7 track days), I ran into a lot of traffic, so there would be the occasional slower lap.

I have the BMW performance aero kit installed, which has specific vents for the brakes, and the some larger venting, ostensibly for the oil cooler and radiator. When I saw the oil temp climbing up to 280F - 290F, I started shifting into 4th early. I never went into limp modes. I am not sure if I had some power reduction.

A friend of mine also with an E90, sport package, completely stock, went into limp mode once and threw a VANOS code in his fourth session, but cleared it and continued. No times for him, but he was running slower than me.

Some other interesting thermal data: with a thermal imaging camera we measured my tire temps to be 240F, equally distributed across the tire tread, and brake pad temperatures of 518F (max temp measurable by the camera) for the entire pad.
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      07-15-2013, 11:53 PM   #953
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Coolant temps at Thunderhill

I forgot, one other interesting data point: on the freeway drive to the track during the previous evening I monitored my coolant temp. It reached 105C in 95F weather and noticeable humidity (Central California humidity is bad, but not East Coast bad).

During the actual track day in 104F weather, my coolant temp never got over 98C. It seems that humidity had a large impact on coolant temperature.

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I updated the spreadsheet with some results from running with NCRC at Thunderhill on June 30th. We had 5 run sessions of 20 minutes long. By 11am it was in the high 90's, and peaked out at 104F early afternoon. My fastest lap was 2:22, and by the last two run sessions was consistently running 2:24 to 2:26. As I was in the novice group (1 to 7 track days), I ran into a lot of traffic, so there would be the occasional slower lap.

I have the BMW performance aero kit installed, which has specific vents for the brakes, and the some larger venting, ostensibly for the oil cooler and radiator. When I saw the oil temp climbing up to 280F - 290F, I started shifting into 4th early. I never went into limp modes. I am not sure if I had some power reduction.

A friend of mine also with an E90, sport package, completely stock, went into limp mode once and threw a VANOS code in his fourth session, but cleared it and continued. No times for him, but he was running slower than me.

Some other interesting thermal data: with a thermal imaging camera we measured my tire temps to be 240F, equally distributed across the tire tread, and brake pad temperatures of 518F (max temp measurable by the camera) for the entire pad.
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      09-16-2013, 06:02 PM   #954
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Spreadsheet updated. AR Oil Cooler doesn't do the job on the track.
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      09-17-2013, 12:07 AM   #955
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Limpmode has gone away for now

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I opened this thread almost 3 years ago, if I had followed the advice given earlier on (I'm slow, what can I say) I would have spent very little money on cooling compared to the time and money I lost fighting limp modes. Now that the 335i is retired from track duty, I'm only hoping I won't be as stubborn with the new car...

One more thing, if I were to do it again, I'd drop all the power mods and focus on balance and weight. For the last year or so I've disabled all power mods and yet my lap times have dropped significantly. Added bonus: no limp modes!

This car can do anything you want it to do at the track, the earlier you prepare for cooling the more on-track time you'll have
I was an early watcher of this thread with my 07 Dinan Stage 3 E92 6MT. I've got the Dinan intercooler and oil cooler and from my start in HPDE in 2011 through earlier this year I've had frequent limp modes both at the track and at autocrosses. Reading this thread, I had the VANOS cleaned, ran distilled water and water wetter, got rid of my DCI, short shifted at the track and, finally, had all the factory software replaced together with a Dinan reflash with the latest version. I installed a Quaife LSD in the belief that traction issues might be implicated since some limpmodes seemed to occur with wheelspin when the back end got light going over hills and on certain autocross maneuvers. All of these remedies over 2 years did not forestall my worst limpmode attack - multiple limpmodes in 7 of 8 sessions at Summit Main earlier this year when track temperatures were quite reasonable (70F ambient). At this point I got very close to chucking the 335i - but after this session we saw a VANOS code. Montclair Motorwerks NJ also noted reports of voltage irregularities, due to the age of the original OEM battery, causing various faults and software problems. So as a last gasp, we replaced both VANOS solenoids and installed a new OEM battery. Voila! I tracked the car at Summit Shenandoah several weeks ago with no performance problems. It was so sweet having the power I expected when I needed it. Unreal. I will be down at Lightning in October, so we'll see if this sticks.

Last edited by grennx; 09-17-2013 at 12:09 AM. Reason: title spelling error
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      09-17-2013, 08:02 AM   #956
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I was an early watcher of this thread with my 07 Dinan Stage 3 E92 6MT. I've got the Dinan intercooler and oil cooler and from my start in HPDE in 2011 through earlier this year I've had frequent limp modes both at the track and at autocrosses. Reading this thread, I had the VANOS cleaned, ran distilled water and water wetter, got rid of my DCI, short shifted at the track and, finally, had all the factory software replaced together with a Dinan reflash with the latest version. I installed a Quaife LSD in the belief that traction issues might be implicated since some limpmodes seemed to occur with wheelspin when the back end got light going over hills and on certain autocross maneuvers. All of these remedies over 2 years did not forestall my worst limpmode attack - multiple limpmodes in 7 of 8 sessions at Summit Main earlier this year when track temperatures were quite reasonable (70F ambient). At this point I got very close to chucking the 335i - but after this session we saw a VANOS code. Montclair Motorwerks NJ also noted reports of voltage irregularities, due to the age of the original OEM battery, causing various faults and software problems. So as a last gasp, we replaced both VANOS solenoids and installed a new OEM battery. Voila! I tracked the car at Summit Shenandoah several weeks ago with no performance problems. It was so sweet having the power I expected when I needed it. Unreal. I will be down at Lightning in October, so we'll see if this sticks.
Did you limp because of oil heat?
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      10-02-2013, 10:09 PM   #957
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No limp again at Fontana

I was at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana last week for a BMW CCA HPDE. No issues, no limp modes, codes, or anything. Oil temps were constantly 250F or below. Ambient temp was 85F, low humidity.
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      10-28-2013, 10:31 PM   #958
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...I will be down at Lightning in October, so we'll see if this sticks.
so… how was it? i'm very interested in getting a 335i as a DD/occasional track car but all these track related problems (although seems like they're getting worked out somewhat) really has me wondering. Thanks! i'd really like to stick with a BMW rather than go to an S4….

Matt
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      10-29-2013, 12:55 PM   #959
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so… how was it? i'm very interested in getting a 335i as a DD/occasional track car but all these track related problems (although seems like they're getting worked out somewhat) really has me wondering. Thanks! i'd really like to stick with a BMW rather than go to an S4….

Matt
The N55 has been better with cooling and reliability. I only owned the N54 so I can't speak from experience.
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      11-05-2013, 11:01 AM   #960
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Just a data point, at Motorsports Ranch Cresson on the 3.1 mile track, I was doing 25 minute sessions with the Cobb E30 race map (running E30-35) and water temps were oscillating between 101-106C, and oil temps were oscillating between 265-275F. This was while running 2:29-2:30 laps back to back.

I have the stett stage 2 oil cooler, 80-90% water (very little coolant), stock radiator, no additional radiator. Power mods are VRSF FMIC, DP's, and cat-back, and Vishnu DCI's.
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      12-29-2013, 04:56 PM   #961
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Hello all. I'm joining this thread not because I have encountered a limp mode but in anticipation of it. I plan on tracking my 335is 6mt sometime in the spring. It will likely be in the Northeastern USA, so temps shouldnt be too hot. Has anyone else with a 335is encountered limp mode or cooling issues after some hard driving?

I'm not planning on fiddling with the tune as of yet. And I know the 335is comes with some additional cooling as is...so I was just wondering if I needed to upgrade anything cooling wise before tracking it?

Slightly off topic question: short of getting the old M3 or new M4, what would people recommend for a daily driver that you can also track (preferably in the same category as BMW: luxury/performance)? I haven't heard too much about Audi or Mercedes in terms of dual use. I know a lot of people like to buy and modify slightly used porsches, but even used those things are expensive and costly to maintain.

The new 335 with the n55, though it looks cool, I've heard does not have nearly the same tuning potential as the old N54 335i. Is the N54 the best option for daily driving and occasional track use, despite its historical cooling issues?
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      06-22-2014, 09:58 AM   #962
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No limp mode with N55! 20 mins straight of track time, 4x yesterday High Plains Raceway and nothing past 250°. Running msport w/factory oil cooler. Was getting brake fade at the end of laps but nothing uncontrollable. Convinced she can be solid track car after yesterday
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      08-06-2014, 12:43 AM   #963
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Hey guys, I haven't visited this thread in a while as I haven't tracked the E90 in a long time. I turned my E36 into an HPDE car and have been tracking that instead. However, it's always fun to take the E90 out once in a while. I have a VK Motorwerks oil cooler sitting in the closet that I can install, but I just had a thought to throw out there...

With the high oil temps, and the hot turbos, has anyone tried just removing some, or all, of the underpanels of the car? I imagine BrianMN cringing after all the aero work done on his car, but I'm wondering if the huge amount of air rushing through the under carriage and possibly cooling off the turbos will help? Food for thought... I don't have plans to track the E90 any time soon but will keep an eye on this thread in case anyone tries it. Would be a simple back to back test at the track...
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      09-03-2014, 07:12 PM   #964
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After reading through this entire thread, some sections a few times as well as other threads and posts about oil coolers, and overheating; I think that I may be more paranoid than I need to be about limp mode. I have been shying away from signing up for a track day despite how badly I would like to go because I feel like my car isn't ready despite all I've done in prepping it. Primarily because this thread and other posts make me feel like I need an upgraded oil cooler or going to the track will be a waste of time and money.

Given all of the info below I should probably just go hit the track (Thunderhill most likely) and see what happens before I drop another $1,500 for the ER competition oil cooler. What do you guys think? Am I track ready? Maybe I should add the BMS Sport Oil Cooler Valve to my setup for some extra margin?

I'm a novice driver, my car has the factory oil cooler and is MT with ~74K on the clock.
I'm running a Wedge E30 Plus flash via the Vishnu OFT ( I also have Procede Rev 3 but not currently installed.) I have RPI Scoops, DCI's, ER CP w Tial BOV, & SteveAZ Stage2 LPFP with 8 gallons of E85 per full tank of 91. I'd at least like to attempt running the tune at the track but could always flash back to stock and/or ask Wedge for a lower boost track map.

I've got ECS slotted rotors & SS lines with ATE fluid & Hawk HPS pads all around.
Stock springs & struts but M3 suspension arms F&R, GC Camber kit and proper alignment.
Square Apex Arc8 17x9.5 with plenty of tread on 265 Hankook RS3.
Seibon Carbon Fiber Hood, M3 rep front bumper with deleted fogs and carbon fiber front lip. I've got cowl filters and removed engine cover but no intention of running with the heat on.

I just got new turbos under warranty, the water pump seems to be in good working order and I've recently done walnut blasting, replaced the valve cover gasket & oil filter housing gaskets. I have new NGK plugs & coils (updated version). I'm already running distilled water + mocool in the radiator. Before AutoX this Saturday I am going to swap out the transmission fluid for Redline D6 and my AMS FMIC should also arrive and be installed by me on Friday.

Overall the car is running like a champ, and has performed really well on the street, at AutoX and the drag strip despite my lack of driving skill. Sorry for the long winded and somewhat off-topic post but what you think, track ready or no?
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      09-03-2014, 07:18 PM   #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowbow View Post
Hey guys, I haven't visited this thread in a while as I haven't tracked the E90 in a long time. I turned my E36 into an HPDE car and have been tracking that instead. However, it's always fun to take the E90 out once in a while. I have a VK Motorwerks oil cooler sitting in the closet that I can install, but I just had a thought to throw out there...

With the high oil temps, and the hot turbos, has anyone tried just removing some, or all, of the underpanels of the car? I imagine BrianMN cringing after all the aero work done on his car, but I'm wondering if the huge amount of air rushing through the under carriage and possibly cooling off the turbos will help? Food for thought... I don't have plans to track the E90 any time soon but will keep an eye on this thread in case anyone tries it. Would be a simple back to back test at the track...
Removing the underpanels is an interesting thought. As I read through this thread I thought about some of the other seemingly obvious and low cost temperature management solutions that have been done on other cars that it seems like people aren't trying with the 335i/N54. Such as rerouting the windshield washer squirters to spray onto the intercooler, oil cooler and/or radiator? Or perhaps adding a fan to the stock oil cooler? Maybe putting a fan onto the upgraded oil coolers? Upgraded the fan on the radiator?
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      09-04-2014, 07:16 PM   #966
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Originally Posted by mindovaanything View Post
After reading through this entire thread, some sections a few times as well as other threads and posts about oil coolers, and overheating; I think that I may be more paranoid than I need to be about limp mode. I have been shying away from signing up for a track day despite how badly I would like to go because I feel like my car isn't ready despite all I've done in prepping it. Primarily because this thread and other posts make me feel like I need an upgraded oil cooler or going to the track will be a waste of time and money.

Given all of the info below I should probably just go hit the track (Thunderhill most likely) and see what happens before I drop another $1,500 for the ER competition oil cooler. What do you guys think? Am I track ready? Maybe I should add the BMS Sport Oil Cooler Valve to my setup for some extra margin?

I'm a novice driver, my car has the factory oil cooler and is MT with ~74K on the clock.
I'm running a Wedge E30 Plus flash via the Vishnu OFT ( I also have Procede Rev 3 but not currently installed.) I have RPI Scoops, DCI's, ER CP w Tial BOV, & SteveAZ Stage2 LPFP with 8 gallons of E85 per full tank of 91. I'd at least like to attempt running the tune at the track but could always flash back to stock and/or ask Wedge for a lower boost track map.

I've got ECS slotted rotors & SS lines with ATE fluid & Hawk HPS pads all around.
Stock springs & struts but M3 suspension arms F&R, GC Camber kit and proper alignment.
Square Apex Arc8 17x9.5 with plenty of tread on 265 Hankook RS3.
Seibon Carbon Fiber Hood, M3 rep front bumper with deleted fogs and carbon fiber front lip. I've got cowl filters and removed engine cover but no intention of running with the heat on.

I just got new turbos under warranty, the water pump seems to be in good working order and I've recently done walnut blasting, replaced the valve cover gasket & oil filter housing gaskets. I have new NGK plugs & coils (updated version). I'm already running distilled water + mocool in the radiator. Before AutoX this Saturday I am going to swap out the transmission fluid for Redline D6 and my AMS FMIC should also arrive and be installed by me on Friday.

Overall the car is running like a champ, and has performed really well on the street, at AutoX and the drag strip despite my lack of driving skill. Sorry for the long winded and somewhat off-topic post but what you think, track ready or no?

Take it to the track. It will be fine. Just make sure to have fresh brake fluid.

I'd recommend taking the tune off for your first day. No need to stress the engine as the speed won't do you any good when your still learning the basics and the line.

Have fun and don't worry!
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      09-08-2014, 05:49 PM   #967
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I signed up for a day at Thunderhill next Friday the 19th so we'll see how it goes ambient temps will likely be in the upper 90's to 100. At autocross on Saturday ambient temps were around 75 and my temps would be at 250 after each run so I'd spray the intercooler, oil cooler and radiator with the distilled water & isopropyl alcohol mixture by the start of my next run temps would be at about 230 but they never went above 250. Also noticed that ever since I've been running the distilled water + mocool in the radiator my highway temps have been around 230 instead of the previous 250.
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      09-29-2014, 01:49 PM   #968
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Well looks like I can unfortunately Join this party. I went to NHMS this past weekend for BMW CCA HPDE and the max high temp for the day was 87, during the entire time I did not see my temps rise above 260F. I had 4 sessions that all went well until I started receiving limp mode. My first sessions was fine, this was earlier in the morning and it had not heated up just yet. The 2nd sessions was also good but the last lap I received limpmode. The last two sessions i was doing ok until 50% into the sessions limp mode CEL.

I don't believe I had an overheating issue as my temps were always constant. The error codes I received were the common 30FE and 3100. After much searching I always come to threads that really don't provide why this is happening.
  • Some say its waste-gate sticking and apply some hightemp grease.
  • Check all vacuum lines make sure there is no leak.
  • Test the boost solenoids to make sure they are not going bad.

I have never received these errors on the street, and I have tried replicating them and it's not possible but I know it happens at high RPM mostly going from 3rd to 4th getting up to 120+ on the track.

I have plenty of air going to my oilcooer, just a complete cutout. I have a vented hood, and 7" IC running Wedge map. Unfortunately I did not do any logging that day. Looks as though this is a common issue and I am not the only one to were this happens only at the track and not on the street.

Has anybody else had these issues on the track at all and resolved them?
__________________

2008 AW 6MT | BB Flash | Wavetrac LSD 3.46 | AE Quad | VRSF DP'S | VRSF 7" IC | DD Hood / Diffuser| Mtech Front / Rear| BMW Performance Splitters / Spoiler | Wheels 18lb 18x9 SQ |
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