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      07-24-2013, 05:58 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Thus far, we can confirm that TM was using illegal drugs by his own admission, commiting several assaults by his own admission, and trying to sell an illegal handgun. A dumb teenager smashes mailboxes with his friends. A criminal commits assaults and sells illegal handguns. The worst you can find on GZ is that he possibly violated the HOA rules.

GZ should know better than to what? He knew the laws of his country and his state and followed them perfectly. This was confirmed initially by the police and later by a jury of his peers.
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      07-24-2013, 06:05 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
everything I pointed out was supposed to show motive
but I think that went totally above your head


this wasn't a "good guy" that got caught in a bad situation
this was a wanna be cop, that was racist, and managed to kill a black man
and got off because the jury were total dumb asses
If your intent was to show motive then yes, that wen't absolutely over my head because the things you're complaining about do not show motive.

CCW has nothing to do with neighborhood watch. The 2nd amendment is a constitutional right. How can exercising your rights be motive for murder? That's ridiculous.

You haven't shown motive. You haven't shown that he was a racist. Neither did the prosecution. You're just asserting your bias.

How is the jury supposed to convict without motive or evidence? The evidence we do have is that TM assaulted Zimmerman. You'd prefer they just ignore that and assume Zimmerman was a racist out for murder?

It's pretty bold to call the jury dumb asses while asserting motive and racism without evidence.
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      07-24-2013, 06:15 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
there will always be division in the states
it comes part and parcel with the whole melting pot concept
you are not all white
you are not all black
you have a mix of races, cultures, languages

maybe of justice was served this time, things would have been better.
Imagine a black man picked up by police because he shot a white teen who had mounted him in the dark and beat the hell out of him.

Would you be arguing this hard that the black man brought this on himself and he should go to jail for shooting the person assaulting him?

Would you be out there telling the outraged black community that although he was the one attacked, he needed to go to jail for murder. He shouldn't have been there to get beaten and it was the black man's fault the white person was dead? Can you really see yourself saying that?

You're correct that there is quite a bit of racism involved with this case. You're just incorrect about who's applying it.
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      07-24-2013, 08:51 PM   #180
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I still don't see how he's racist.... unless by killing someone of another race makes you racist. The dispatcher actually asked him if he was white, black or hispanic. And his response was that "he looks black".

Not what i'd expect from a racist person.
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      07-25-2013, 06:49 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
this wasn't a "good guy" that got caught in a bad situation
this was a wanna be cop, that was racist, and managed to kill a black man
and got off because the jury were total dumb asses
You simply don't have a grasp of what is going on here. You would absolutely NEVER make it onto a jury because of your complete lack of ability to look at evidence objectively.

Also, if the cops are the good guys and GZ, according to you, is a wannabe cop, then by your own definition GZ had good intentions and wanted to help his community.
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      07-25-2013, 10:01 AM   #182
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If OJ Simpson is a good example, then I guess GZ will be found liable in civil court for wrongfully causing the death of the person he was found not guilty of murdering.

Just sayin'...
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      07-25-2013, 10:05 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by pt View Post
If OJ Simpson is a good example, then I guess GZ will be found liable in civil court for wrongfully causing the death of the person he was found not guilty of murdering.

Just sayin'...
Sure, if it could be proven that he did wrongfully cause his death. It's highly unlikely to happen in this case. There's a huge difference between an open and shut self defense case and a vicious and malicious double murder.
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      07-25-2013, 11:02 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Sure, if it could be proven that he did wrongfully cause his death. It's highly unlikely to happen in this case. There's a huge difference between an open and shut self defense case and a vicious and malicious double murder.
There's plenty of money behind it if someone wants to file the complaint I guess. Will be interesting to see whether or not that happens. In other words, I would assume that the lack of a civil trial would equate to people not wanting to take the chance with their cash, with obvious implications.
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      07-25-2013, 11:09 AM   #185
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Never mind the fact that if they were unsuccessful in their civil case, they would be responsible for paying Zimmerman's legal fees.
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      07-25-2013, 11:14 AM   #186
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The truth the media will never talk about. Can't believe CNN/Anderson Cooper is still talking about the Trayvon/Zimmerman case. Every day he has different black people come on the show to talk about it. Where are all the Zimmerman supporters at? Seems a bit one sided AC360
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      07-25-2013, 11:17 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Thus far, we can confirm that TM was using illegal drugs by his own admission, commiting several assaults by his own admission, and trying to sell an illegal handgun. A dumb teenager smashes mailboxes with his friends. A criminal commits assaults and sells illegal handguns. The worst you can find on GZ is that he possibly violated the HOA rules.

GZ should know better than to what? He knew the laws of his country and his state and followed them perfectly. This was confirmed initially by the police and later by a jury of his peers.
you obviously missed this post

"GZ went to court twice for domestic violence
GZ was arrested and charged for "resisting officer with violence" and Battery of law enforcement officer"
GZ made at least 46 separate phone calls to the Sanford police department reporting suspicious activity involving black males.

GZs cousin said "I know George. And I know that he does not like black people,” she told a Sanford police officer during a telephone call. “He would start something. He’s a very confrontational person. It’s in his blood."

that same cousin also said GZ molested her when they were children."
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      07-25-2013, 11:20 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post
Imagine a black man picked up by police because he shot a white teen who had mounted him in the dark and beat the hell out of him.

Would you be arguing this hard that the black man brought this on himself and he should go to jail for shooting the person assaulting him?

Would you be out there telling the outraged black community that although he was the one attacked, he needed to go to jail for murder. He shouldn't have been there to get beaten and it was the black man's fault the white person was dead? Can you really see yourself saying that?

You're correct that there is quite a bit of racism involved with this case. You're just incorrect about who's applying it.
"GZ made at least 46 separate phone calls to the Sanford police department reporting suspicious activity involving black males.

GZs cousin said "I know George. And I know that he does not like black people,” she told a Sanford police officer during a telephone call. “He would start something. He’s a very confrontational person. It’s in his blood."

still think racism wasn't involved in this case?
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      07-25-2013, 11:21 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
I still don't see how he's racist.... unless by killing someone of another race makes you racist. The dispatcher actually asked him if he was white, black or hispanic. And his response was that "he looks black".

Not what i'd expect from a racist person.
you think someone that is racist would tell the dispatcher
"he looks like a N...."??
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      07-25-2013, 11:24 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
You simply don't have a grasp of what is going on here. You would absolutely NEVER make it onto a jury because of your complete lack of ability to look at evidence objectively.

Also, if the cops are the good guys and GZ, according to you, is a wannabe cop, then by your own definition GZ had good intentions and wanted to help his community.
I would not make it to a jury because I am not a citizen anyway

cops are usually good guys
but this person was a wanna be cop
big difference

he doesn't have the training, experience, or know how to be a cop
the only thing he has is a gun

stop reading into my words these outlandish "by your own definition" remarks
it doesn't strengthen your argument, on the contrary
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      07-25-2013, 11:54 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
I would not make it to a jury because I am not a citizen anyway

cops are usually good guys
but this person was a wanna be cop
big difference

he doesn't have the training, experience, or know how to be a cop
the only thing he has is a gun
You're absolutely right, however that does not mean that he used his gun improperly. He didn't try to arrest TM, all he did was keep an eye on him because he matched the description of people who were robbing his neighbors condos. That's a pretty benign action and was done with good intention. Let's not forget, he called the police himself and had no idea how old the person was who he was observing. They also told him to keep an eye on him and when they said to stop following him, GZ said "OK" - as in "affirmative". So unless you think he masterminded this massive scheme to cover for the malicious killing of an unarmed black man just for kicks, self defense is the only thing that makes sense.

The laws of the United States were followed in this case and the police and the jury correctly treated the case (initially for the police, then they bowed under pressure). I really don't understand why you are still arguing this. The laws are the laws and he did not break any. TM did and he paid a heavy, yet legally justified, price for his actions.
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      07-25-2013, 12:06 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
you think someone that is racist would tell the dispatcher
"he looks like a N...."??
The dispatcher asked if he was black white or hispanic. How is a non-racist supposed to answer?
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      07-25-2013, 12:08 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
you obviously missed this post

"GZ went to court twice for domestic violence
GZ was arrested and charged for "resisting officer with violence" and Battery of law enforcement officer"
GZ made at least 46 separate phone calls to the Sanford police department reporting suspicious activity involving black males.

GZs cousin said "I know George. And I know that he does not like black people,” she told a Sanford police officer during a telephone call. “He would start something. He’s a very confrontational person. It’s in his blood."

that same cousin also said GZ molested her when they were children."
So what happened with domestic violence charges? Or battery on a LEO? Do you know?

Do you have recordings of these calls? Have you heard them?

I discount anything any relative says about someone in these situations. Good or Bad. There is always too much motivation for some reason or another to believe a word they say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
"GZ made at least 46 separate phone calls to the Sanford police department reporting suspicious activity involving black males.

GZs cousin said "I know George. And I know that he does not like black people,” she told a Sanford police officer during a telephone call. “He would start something. He’s a very confrontational person. It’s in his blood."

still think racism wasn't involved in this case?
Yes, I do. The recording i heard didn't show that he called in and said that there is a suspicious black guy walking my neighborhood. He didn't even initiate the race description. Any one that is racist enough to kill someone of their hated race without cause will mention race in every aspect of their conversation. Especially if they were initially wanting the cops to do something and then decided to take it into their own hands. Nor are these racist people so sneaky that they plan ahead with the whole, "they'll expect a racist person to say this, so i'll say that".

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
you think someone that is racist would tell the dispatcher
"he looks like a N...."??
No, but i do believe that someone with as much hate for a certain race that you make him out to have, will start off with a description of race when reporting someone to the authorities. If you don't know, most racist people have some foolish believe that everyone of their own race also despises the race he hates as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
I would not make it to a jury because I am not a citizen anyway

cops are usually good guys
but this person was a wanna be cop
big difference

he doesn't have the training, experience, or know how to be a cop
the only thing he has is a gun

stop reading into my words these outlandish "by your own definition" remarks
it doesn't strengthen your argument, on the contrary
You don't know what kind of training he had.

What do you think a cop would do if he were getting his ass kicked and the person wasn't letting up? You think a cop would think twice about emptying his gun into someone who was attacking them?

To the contrary, I'm pretty sure that just about everyone who has read your posts in this thread thinks your way off base. Nearly everything you have argued either has absolutely nothing to do with this case or is a full on assumption that you made based on your own speculation.
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      07-25-2013, 12:08 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post
The dispatcher asked if he was black white or hispanic. How is a non-racist supposed to answer?
He's not interested in facts. He would rather read about rumors and HOA regs than the laws of the country.
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      07-25-2013, 12:10 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
you think someone that is racist would tell the dispatcher
"he looks like a N...."??
So what do you know that the FBI didn't when they investigated GZ last year and found no evidence of racial bias?

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...-zimmerman.htm
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      07-25-2013, 02:45 PM   #196
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I watched hours and hours of the trial and on Youtube the weekend of the verdict, and some of the other statements that didn't end up in trial (ex. Mary Cutter).

The two eye witnesses (Austin Brown and John Good) that saw at least some part of their fight before the gunshot both saw TM on top. Other witnesses testimony points to GZ having no time to fake injuries between the time of the shot and when the police showed up. His injuries support that he was beaten.

There's just nothing to support that GZ "stalked" or "hunted" or intended to kill TM, nor shot in a response to anything more than a serious assault. One good skull bash into the cement and he could have been unconscious and easily killed. Following TM, even asking him what he was doing, even confronting him is not illegal, nor do I think immoral in the context of him being part of the neighborhood watch and there having been a string of burglaries in the neighborhood. The police cannot be everywhere at every time, afterall.

TM could have easily fled. GZ could not have, having been straddled by TM and beaten.

GZ states he was jumped, but even if he hadn't, short of throwing the first punch, or shoving TM, confronting someone, shouting "hey you!" or "what are you doing?" does not give them authority to beat you, and does not mean you give up your right to defend yourself.

The media fucked everything up horribly. From day 1 the media spun it as racially motivated despite very thing evidence for and strong evidence against. You don't hear that GZ's grandmother is black, or that he took a black girl to HS prom, and initially didn't even know he is hispanic. You don't see the pictures from TM's phone showing what is likely his own arm holding a gun, or the pictures of jewelry on a bed. They showed old TM photos with a giant childlike smile on his face, and a dim looking GZ mugshot.

Even now after watching all the weekend political shows (MTP, FTN, TW), not a single person was challenged the avalanche of race baiting and race spinning on the story. It's horrible. So horrible. And now the whole nation is going to pursue it as an racial issue which is flat out ridiculous. It was nothing but an echo chamber of "this was racial" and "gun/stand your ground laws are messed up."

I'm not necessarily thrilled that GZ followed after TM. Probably not a great idea, and something any gun carry permit holder should think really hard about. GZ is lucky that he didn't just misremember one tiny fact when he went on TV the very next day and blathered about it. If he really was the real aggressor here, there sure isn't anything at all to support that.

No matter how you cut it, without getting into wild conspiracy or well off the track of actual evidence this is not a race issue, and GZ is not guilty of any crime. There's been a lot of talk about parent's having to talk to their kids now, and clearly yes, but the part where you tell your kids, "don't jump people, anyone could be legally carrying a gun and shoot your dumb ass" does not need to be predicated on, "you are black."

This entire story is such a monumental farce.
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      07-25-2013, 03:43 PM   #197
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A second juror came forward today saying that she "feels" he got away with murder but that there was not enough evidence to convict him under Florida law. She was the one juror who initially wanted to convict him of 2nd degree murder when deliberations began and was the single minority juror.

She sounds like a complete moron. How could you feel he got away with murder while also saying that there wasn't enough evidence to convict him? If the law says it's not murder, IT'S NOT MURDER! Oh, Florida...
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      07-25-2013, 04:06 PM   #198
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Some believe that there are problems that exist that simply cannot be solved. I disagree. It is possible to change black attitudes but it will take a dynamic person to lead the way.

The primary reason that Trayvon Martin is not alive today is that George Zimmerman feared him. Making his neighborhood watch rounds, Zimmerman saw a young man wearing clothing that unsettled him. Zimmerman profiled the teenager and from there things rapidly got out of control.

There is a perception in America that young black males can be trouble. According to a study out of Northeastern University, black men between the ages of 14 and 24 commit homicides at a rate ten times that of young white and hispanic males combined. This disturbing fact drives profiling and fear.

The reason that crime among young black males is so intense is the collapse of the traditional black family. Fifty years ago, the out-of-wedlock birth rate among African-Americas was 25%. Today it is nearly 73% and growing, according to the Centers for Disease Control. By contrast, 29% of white babies and 53% of hispanic children are born out-of-wedlock.

Single parent situations drive poverty and often lead to unsupervised kids. Many boys growing up without fathers often feel angry and abandoned. Thus, they seek comfort in all the wrong places.

President Obama and our leaders in Washington surely understand the root of the black crime problem. So do self-appointed civil rights leaders like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. But they rarely discuss the matter in public. That might anger their constituency and be bad for business.

When was the last time you saw a demonstration discouraging young black girls from getting pregnant outside of marriage? When was the last time the President held a press conference on the issue? When was the last time we saw the federal government put out a public service ad encouraging children to reject drugs and violence?

Maybe Jay Z could do such an ad. How about Lil Wayne? Kanye West? These guys make millions rapping about dubious behavior. Sometimes they glamorize it. So why don't they lead the charge to improve things on the south side of Chicago and other places under siege?

There was plenty of outrage in the black precincts over the Zimmerman verdict. Understandable. But there is little national anger over thousands of African-Americans being gunned down in the streets by out-of-control young men, the vast majority of them black.

Until the American leadership begins to encourage the return of the traditional black family, the enormous problems of black poverty and crime will continue. And the fear of young black men will continue. And the death of innocents will continue.

Maybe Jay Z can rap about that.
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