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      07-29-2013, 01:08 PM   #1
jlcf22
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Cobb pro tune or BMS flash?

I'm on Cobb stage 2+ and want to take it to the next level by adding some E85 mix, so my question is what route will make more power with a e40/e50 mix? thanks
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      07-29-2013, 01:17 PM   #2
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Your options are $200+ for a single pro tune flash map or a JB4 for $500. With the JB4 you'll get BMS's custom tuning expertise for as many maps as you like. Along with all the cool features that come along with a JB4 like the in dash gauges, gear dependent boost control, etc. If you are an MT you'll need the JB4 for a NLS and if you're an AT you need the JB4 for the flatline timing fix. While the JB4 costs a bit more than a protune you get a lot more for the money not to mention resale value if you ever sell the car.

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      07-29-2013, 01:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Your options are $200+ for a single pro tune flash map or a JB4 for $500. With the JB4 you'll get BMS's custom tuning expertise for as many maps as you like. Along with all the cool features that come along with a JB4 like the in dash gauges, gear dependent boost control, etc. If you are an MT you'll need the JB4 for a NLS and if you're an AT you need the JB4 for the flatline timing fix. While the JB4 costs a bit more than a protune you get a lot more for the money not to mention resale value if you ever sell the car.

Mike
yeah thats what i was thinking what if i wanna add meth, bigger turbos or bigger mix of e85 in the future i dont wanna keep paying for a tune, so what do you think will make better hp or is it about the same?
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      07-29-2013, 01:33 PM   #4
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I just went jb4 for the bms flash... so many customization and you are not locked into a tune...
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      07-29-2013, 02:39 PM   #5
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Cobb resell value is way higher than a JB4. With the Cobb AP you don't have to worry about getting your hands dirty under the hood meddling with wires. Its mere plug and play action before and after the dealer which offers the best convenience over the JB4.

The Cobb AP allows the DME to see "true signals" and allows compensation of power when things get too hot regardless of what map is selected

The JB4 "scales" the signals to the DME ie manipulates the DME into thinking something that is not.

Whatever the choice, enjoy
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      07-29-2013, 03:48 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Cobb resell value is way higher than a JB4. With the Cobb AP you don't have to worry about getting your hands dirty under the hood meddling with wires. Its mere plug and play action before and after the dealer which offers the best convenience over the JB4.

The Cobb AP allows the DME to see "true signals" and allows compensation of power when things get too hot regardless of what map is selected

The JB4 "scales" the signals to the DME ie manipulates the DME into thinking something that is not.

Whatever the choice, enjoy

not looking to get into a tuner argument, but there are fatal tuning issues that cannot be resolved flash only, particularly on the autos. just thought id get my two cents in
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      07-29-2013, 03:55 PM   #7
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not looking to get into a tuner argument, but there are fatal tuning issues that cannot be resolved flash only, particularly on the autos. just thought id get my two cents in
Fatal as in dead ? What issues are these ? I need to know since I have both Cobb and jb and I was about to sell the jb. Pm please if you don't want to mess with the thread.

Thanks

harry
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      07-29-2013, 03:59 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by ZTUNER View Post
Fatal as in dead ? What issues are these ? I need to know since I have both Cobb and jb and I was about to sell the jb. Pm please if you don't want to mess with the thread.

Thanks

harry

welp ... if you have an auto, with the alpina tcm flash, you wont drop timing in all cylinders in 5th gear. but you still have to worry about massive timing corrections on the 23 or 34 shift.

the jb4+cobb stack has a few issues of its own but none really from a performance standpoint. just a slight waste of fuel at part throttle.

6mt and dct are pretty much good to go cobb only.
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      07-29-2013, 04:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by themyst View Post
welp ... if you have an auto, with the alpina tcm flash, you wont drop timing in all cylinders in 5th gear. but you still have to worry about massive timing corrections on the 23 or 34 shift.

the jb4+cobb stack has a few issues of its own but none really from a performance standpoint. just a slight waste of fuel at part throttle.

6mt and dct are pretty much good to go cobb only.
Is this because of the torque reduction function before a shift ? If so I believe you can turn that off in ATR. I will log a 2 3 4 run and see what you mean.

Harry
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      07-29-2013, 05:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
welp ... if you have an auto, with the alpina tcm flash, you wont drop timing in all cylinders in 5th gear. but you still have to worry about massive timing corrections on the 23 or 34 shift.

the jb4+cobb stack has a few issues of its own but none really from a performance standpoint. just a slight waste of fuel at part throttle.

6mt and dct are pretty much good to go cobb only.
good info thanks, i do have a auto and getting the alpina flash sometime this week
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      07-30-2013, 05:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTUNER View Post
Is this because of the torque reduction function before a shift ? If so I believe you can turn that off in ATR. I will log a 2 3 4 run and see what you mean.

Harry

ticking the disable torque intervention by ign will result in nothing more than harsh shifts.

log a 2-3-4 run shifting in the sweet spot (6200 rpm). see how your timing takes a dump in 4th afterward.
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      07-30-2013, 05:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcf22 View Post
good info thanks, i do have a auto and getting the alpina flash sometime this week

I absolutely hate the Alpina shift points in D and it does some funky things with timing with DTC on as well unrelated to wheel spin. i hate it so much i am in manual mode all the time. im actualy going to try the "sport" flash wedge recommended .
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      07-30-2013, 06:34 PM   #13
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I just got the alpina flash last week and I also dont like any mode except for manual. My GF was like WTF is wrong with your car the first time she rode in it after the flash lol. I don't mind being in manual mode (I wish I could of found a damn 6mt in the first place) or I would be getting flashed back to stock in a hurry. I cant stand the stability control system either, turning it off is the first thing I do when I get in my car. Is there anyway to turn it off by default
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      07-30-2013, 06:44 PM   #14
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I just got the alpina flash last week and I also dont like any mode except for manual. My GF was like WTF is wrong with your car the first time she rode in it after the flash lol. I don't mind being in manual mode (I wish I could of found a damn 6mt in the first place) or I would be getting flashed back to stock in a hurry. I cant stand the stability control system either, turning it off is the first thing I do when I get in my car. Is there anyway to turn it off by default
yes get a jb4.
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      07-30-2013, 10:03 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by themyst View Post
I absolutely hate the Alpina shift points in D and it does some funky things with timing with DTC on as well unrelated to wheel spin. i hate it so much i am in manual mode all the time. im actualy going to try the "sport" flash wedge recommended .
Are you still running the Alpina flash?

I must admit - your posts are rather concerning, as I've had the flash on my car since Feb and am yet to experience any trans issues, apart from the annoying D shift points - which I can live with! In saying that - I don't go WOT very often and am still only running COBB OTS maps.

I've just purchased a PTF tune and am about to start logging.. So will see if I can replicate your timing dump findings..

If you have any logs you're willing to post up for comparason, that'd be great!

Is the timing dump something that can be tuned out (given a custom tune) or it doesn't exactly work that way?

Also, is that to say piggy-back tunes dont experience this issue?

Thanks!
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      07-31-2013, 02:37 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Gemballa1980 View Post
Are you still running the Alpina flash?

I must admit - your posts are rather concerning, as I've had the flash on my car since Feb and am yet to experience any trans issues, apart from the annoying D shift points - which I can live with! In saying that - I don't go WOT very often and am still only running COBB OTS maps.

I've just purchased a PTF tune and am about to start logging.. So will see if I can replicate your timing dump findings..

If you have any logs you're willing to post up for comparason, that'd be great!

Is the timing dump something that can be tuned out (given a custom tune) or it doesn't exactly work that way?

Also, is that to say piggy-back tunes dont experience this issue?

Thanks!
+1 i would like to know also
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      07-31-2013, 09:00 PM   #17
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I'm on Cobb stage 2+ and want to take it to the next level by adding some E85 mix, so my question is what route will make more power with a e40/e50 mix? thanks
Unless you plan to do some fuel system upgrades, why not just try an E30 mix and run Cobb's OTS E30 map? It's free and makes good power. My car made ~425 rwhp and ~480 rwtq (SAE) through my 6AT on that map.
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      07-31-2013, 09:53 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Gemballa1980 View Post
Are you still running the Alpina flash?

I must admit - your posts are rather concerning, as I've had the flash on my car since Feb and am yet to experience any trans issues, apart from the annoying D shift points - which I can live with! In saying that - I don't go WOT very often and am still only running COBB OTS maps.

I've just purchased a PTF tune and am about to start logging.. So will see if I can replicate your timing dump findings..

If you have any logs you're willing to post up for comparason, that'd be great!

Is the timing dump something that can be tuned out (given a custom tune) or it doesn't exactly work that way?

Also, is that to say piggy-back tunes dont experience this issue?

Thanks!
im not having any transmission issues, I just dont like how DTC operates and the shift points in D with the Alpina flash.

and if you have IJE0S be prepared to see some real ugly timing flash only after a 3-4 shift. it does seem to affect IJE0S people worse than I8A0S folks.
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      07-31-2013, 10:35 PM   #19
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im not having any transmission issues, I just dont like how DTC operates and the shift points in D with the Alpina flash.

and if you have IJE0S be prepared to see some real ugly timing flash only after a 3-4 shift. it does seem to affect IJE0S people worse than I8A0S folks.
I think I actually felt this happen today on my way home. Felt like all power just took a dump for about 1 second right after the 3-4 shift in manual mode and then right back to normal. Wish I would of been logging but i'm sure its easy enough to replicate. I am running the OTS E30 map EIJOS with alpina flash.

By the way this E30 map is a million times better than the stage2+

I was going to get an e-tune from PTF ASAP but now that i'm not running the stage2+ anymore I think it can wait till some other things get taken care of like the diff bushings.
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      07-31-2013, 10:38 PM   #20
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I have an 09 335 Euro M sport with DCT running on a JB4 G5 Iso and while its gain was tremendous on gain on pump gas 93 alone ( 375 wheel , map 5) I spoke to Terry regarding the BMS backend flash and was told it would improve shifting times considerably as well as significant gains if planning to go on a constant E85 mix which I tried on 50% mix ( netted me significant wheel torque increase! not hp )

I went for it and what do you know, the DCT was shifting super quick not to mention a much snappier throttle response.

The best thing about it is Terry offers unconditional map changes as long as I send him CSV logs.
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      07-31-2013, 10:42 PM   #21
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I thought the BMS backend only effected fueling, what are they doing that is effecting shifting speed? Is it doing anything else I don't yet know about
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      07-31-2013, 10:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWM.D. View Post
Unless you plan to do some fuel system upgrades, why not just try an E30 mix and run Cobb's OTS E30 map? It's free and makes good power. My car made ~425 rwhp and ~480 rwtq (SAE) through my 6AT on that map.
425 rwhp? thats pretty good im assuming with a mix of 91 acn octane? and yes i finally got a hold of some e85 today and i ran the e30 map for the first time and it felt pretty good actually i wonder if its over 400 rwhp
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